DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Browns got better when they learned to behave, economically speaking

He traded up to draft Mahommes ... that alone puts him light years ahead of your hero ....

.

I agree ... they both were in way over there heads ... the THIEF out did himself with those hires ... although Hue was the hottest commodity that year ...

Whats wierd ... i don’t blame Sashi ... that one falls 100% on the thief IMO .. its just the BS his cult spews that makes me point out the FACTS about his talent aquisitions here and how poor his QB rooms were ...

Hue was just plain horrible but i can’t blame the thief for that one ... the one that blew my mind was the gamein year 1 against Miami .. we have a brand spanking new kicker signed like that friday .. he’s missed two FG’s all ready in the game from around 40 yards ... we have the ball with 20 seconds left a TO and were at about a 43 yarder from the same distance/hashmark he had all ready missed two from .. and Hue takes a knee and then uses his TO ...that is one of the dumbest coaching moves ever ... HORRIBLE HORRIBLE PLAY CALL ..

U deleted your post while i was replying ..

My hero? Sashi is every Browns fan's hero. There's a statue of him erected on the Isle.

I get so tired of "all or nothing" arguments.

Diam outlined Sashi's failed picks. (or at least failed here .... many are at least still in the NFL)

His successes (still with the Browns and contributing) are:

Ogbah
Schobert
Kindred
DeValve
Higgins
Garrett
Peppers
Njoku
Ogunjobi


Wilson has been on IR twice, so unknown at this point, but probably won't amount to anything.

Sashi's problems were picking Coleman, Nassib, Kessler, and Coleman, when he had so many picks in the top 3 rounds in 2016.

All teams have hits and misses. I suspect that a draft with a superstar, and 2-3 players who are solid to solid+ is a pretty good draft. The Steelers had a great draft in 2017, but both 2016 and 2018 look fairly modest. Granted, we picked a whole lot higher than the Steelers, but they still had one great draft sandwiched by 2 lesser looking drafts.

Sashi's plan was to load up on draft picks so that the misses didn't hurt as badly. That part, at least to some degree, worked.

My biggest issue with Brown was treating veterans like they had the plague when it came to resigning our own, and then going after players that didn't fit, (LB Davis) weren't very good, (Tuggle, Bailey, Moore, RGIII, etc) or didn't seem to care about playing here. (Collins, Britt)

Like almost every football front office, Brown did have some good to go along with a lot of bad. If he would have taken one of the QBs who were available to us, he might still be employed. (though it's probably lucky for us that he didn't, because I do think that Haslem does much better with the more experienced, and stronger voice presented by John Dorsey)

Just my $0.00000002135648926354 worth.

I disagree that the Browns are better.

I disagree that Depodesta got them there.

Think about it, Depodesta has held the "chief Stragegy officer" position with the team since 2015.

Look at history, Start at 2015, Wind up the end of this season,

And look for Any Sense of Strategy that is not out of wack-a-doo land.

Before the Browns want to go patting themselves on the back, when it is another year they did not even get IN TO the playoffs.

I just can't.

Maybe the Browns should have a parade. The "seven win parade" .

I didn't realize you were responding to Device and not me. My mistake.

Sashi and the Thief have side by side statues right outside the entrance to the FACTORY OF SADNESS museum on the Isle ...

Two things...

1) Ok, you could argue that Sashi failed when it came to Schwartz, but we can't deny the fact that both him and Pryor were offered better than market value contracts and both said no.

2) The entire premise of the original article is based on the recency effect. Look how many people want that $100 today rather than $120 in 30 days. A lot of people complaining we didn't draft Wentz (or Watson) and saying we screwed up but look how great a position we're in a few years later because we didn't.


And a comment...

As much as the Sashi haters want to say you can't give credit to Sashi for us having Mayfield and Ward, you can't say we'd have been a good team if we had drafted Wentz or Watson. The butterfly effect. Maybe we don't have Garrett, or Peppers, or Njoku... would you rather have Wentz and be average or have Mayfield and be talking about possibly being in the super bowl next season?

Time will tell. The plan is just beginning to unfold. We went through the closing of the book. Nobody liked that. Most seem pretty happy with the new book.

I think we are fortunate to have DePodesta.

He's not trying to override the football guys. He is here to enhance their methods and decisions.

The plan unfolded a few years ago. We are just starting to see the results and this is the tip of the iceberg.

*LOL* ... yes ... thank god sashi sucked so bad we had the #1 pick two years in a row ...
thats BRILLIANT!!!!

Sashi set us up with more #1 picks in his two year stint than he had WINS ...

Nice argument ... ...

We have 5 1st round picks in last two years and Dorsey didn't have anything to do with it. Try again.

We can do this all day and night and you'll never be right.

*LOL* ... are u just messin with me or do u actually believe the crap u spew ... i really hope your messin with me ... otherwise ... OH VEY ...

I mean theres every reason to believe we’d have

Bake/Ward/Chubb/Avery/Calloway and Vice Grips (oh thats right .. he was a HORRIBLE AQUISTION cause King John doesn’t understand value ... ). ...

Vice Grips/Randall/Mitchell/Robinson/Harrison/Perriman/Hubbard

YUP ... theres every reason to believe we’d have all them ...

Crap King John got Perriman off the scrap heap where as Sashi drafted C. Coleman with the 15th pick in the draft ... BRILLIANT!!!

Once again ... u got me ..

Yeesh. You really don't get it.

YTown.........I don't think it is all or nothing. I have just dealt w/Memphis for a long, long time dating back to the official board before it shut down.

Most of us are willing to just let it go, but he continually starts these arguments. Both Hue and Sashi are gone. No one brings them up until he-or a couple of others do. They're gone. But, trying to prove your right is more important to some than others.

I'm glad and sad both are gone. Sad because it didn't work out. Glad because I think we have better guys in place.

And I want to make one final comment on this and then I am out. I actually love when Memphis digs up old threads and quotes and posts them because anyone w/an emotional intellect above a 4th grader recognizes how lame of a strategy it is. He actually revived a long-dead thread to make fun of Pit a couple of weeks ago. I read it and thought............what kind of blank would do something like this?

The answer was easy.

U really do believe the crap u spew ... OH VEY ... i actually feel sorry for u ...

Picking Garrett was GENIUS .... no one saw that coming ... he was only slotted to go #1 before the season he came out even started ... WOW ... your hero sure pulled that one out of his butt ...

Man .. HOW COULD THE THIEF HAVE FIRED HIM ...what was he thinking ..

Now your giving Sashi credit for PLAYERS HE DIDNT DRAFT ..

U can spew your crap all night long ... sashi may have very well traded out of the #1 pick for all we know .. and i’m Sure analytics pointed to Ward ... ...

I’ll take King Johns 2nd and 5th round picks last year over your hero’s use of 1st rounders Njoku/Peppers ALL DAY LONG ...

Not at all what I said.

But we can and should move on...

I agree. That is not what you said.


We a fortunate to have DePodesta in the front office.

It's ironic that the first people to mention Sashi in this thread were Diam, Vers, and Pit when it was more about DePodesta and his analytics bend. The article specifically references him and his team. Last time I checked they are all still employed by the Browns.

Funny how the people that whine about Sashi being brought up are actually pointing fingers at themselves.

It never is what someone says. It's all manufactured BS. Simple, manufactured BS. Last time he said I claimed Baker Mayfield was a "no-brainer".

Funny and ironic? WTF are you talking about. I didn't bring up Sashi or Hue. I talked about the "exploit other teams" comment. I also mentioned your obvious agenda. Of course, you dug up a post that had nothing to do w/the topic.

It's "funny" and "ironic" that you never bring up other posts like the ones where you mocked me repeatedly for saying that fans would turn on Hue or the ones that talked about what epic losing can do to a franchise.

Everyone says things on a message board. Some are correct. Some aren't. There are only about 3 low class posters that dig stuff up to belittle others and make themselves look good.

I'm going back to ignoring you and you can have at it and continue on w/your quest [which you have admitted many times] to get others into attacking me.

HaHa.

1. This is laughable.
2. Is it a quest or an agenda?

so diam, if the hiring of sashi falls squarely on haslem ( I won’t use that ridiculous pejorative that you use) who does the hiring of Dorsey fall on?? who got rid of Haley and hue to turn things around? who did exactly what a smart owner should do and let his football guy pick his next head coach. seems to me Jimmie has learned and made some corrections in his way of doing business and the browns have benefitted. I cannot help but wonder if you will still be slamming him next year when we are in the playoffs and a year or two later when we are playing for the Lombardi. will he still be the worst owner in history?

The entire point of Moneyball (the book, not the movie), which prominently features Paul DePodesta, was to find market inefficiencies to help a small market team compete against big market teams.

This sounds a lot like that. There was an article from several years ago that pointed out this exact premise (I will try to find it).

After reading Seth Wickersham's article from two weeks ago it was clear what the plan was all along. The team was going to bottom out while accumulating assets. Teams readily played along with the Browns' plan (the Brock Osweiler trade is the best example).

Whether or not Sashi Brown was the best person to pick actual players is up for debate (I will not participate in that debate), what is not up for debate is his role in helping the team plan for the long term and executing that plan. While Sashi Brown is gone, almost all of the analytics department remains. Their fingerprints are all over the team and I am glad for their contribution.

That a LIE .... but whats new ....

I said u said all King John did did was get a QB ... i got blasted for it ... QUOTED U and that was IGNORED ...

And now your here doing exactly what u accused me of ... difference ... I DIDN’T LIE ... I QUOTED U ...

Nice try ...

Ya ... NO ONE ELSE COULD DO what he does but him .. ,..

i bet Bake was an analytical dream .... SMALL HEIGHT .. SMALL HANDS i believe and i wonder how HEE HEE fit into his computer programming .. ...

Give me King John and any decent numbers dude ... u guys can have sashi and depo ....

Oh ... u got me .. pay attention ... *L* ...

Andy Reid has more to do with the thief hiring Dorsey than the thief does ..

Sashi FIRED HIMSELF ... the moron couldn’t find a QB ... BUT U GUYS ARE OK with it cause King John drafted Bake ..

He’s a THIEF ... its a FACT ... u can be as PC as u wish ... i prefer being honest ...

I'm not trying to argue w/you in a harsh way, but it is up for debate. There are other ways to build a team other than to gut a team to it's bare roots. The Browns have not won squat yet. The 76ers haven't won squat yet. The A's never won it all.

I have consistently made points about how epic losing would lead to dissension in the ranks. No one brings up those posts or the the threads where so many mocked me. It all played out the way I said it would. Both Sashi and Hue are gone.

We can agree to disagree on how effective such a strategy is, but it certainly is debatable.

And again, I am not challenging you, calling you out, or making this personal. I simply disagree w/your take.

I didn’t say the strategy (I agree with the strategy we took) was not up for debate, I said Sashi Brown’s role in the strategy is not up for debate. He did exactly what he was supposed to do in acquiring draft picks and clearing cap space. Because of that we were/are set up beautifully for the future.

You should have been blasted for it. I never said all Dorsey did was get a QB. I said getting a QB elevated the talent already on this roster. I also said Dorsey had a good draft but wouldn't in the position to get all the players he did without the work of the past regime.

I'll ask again because what you quoted last time has nothing to do with your claim....Feel free to find the quote where I said all Dorsey did was get us a QB.

Actually, he was Depos top rated QB and he agreed with John that Baker should be the pick.

I didn't say anything about wanting Sashi. That guy is gone. I am totally thrilled we have Dorsey. I don't understand why you and some others are so against Depo.

As I said earlier, he isn't here to make the picks. He is here to give added insight to guys we might want to pick, or maybe should consider picking.

I'm also happy Dorsey is here. But people like to spin things and change words of what is actually said all the time. Happens a lot.

But unfortunately, that is the narrative for a select few as they continue to find ways out from how wrong they were about other things and this is the new crusade. Now, they're also getting all up in arms about how much people are pointing out their vast incorrectness while forgetting how much they insulted and belittled others for their opinions at the time. Also, its funny how the argument shifts:

-What was "Hue clearly wasn't the problem, analytics was" turns into "I can't believe all that roster turnover in 2018 and the success directly resulting from it".

-What was "Baker Mayfield is a terrible franchise QB option at #1 devicedawg, you idiot" turns into "Well it's not about having a franchise QB that gets your team to the next level. Everyone knows that.It's a team game."

If you like and understand what was done in 2016, 2017 to get us to where we are today then you clearly hate Dorsey and everything he has done, when that couldn't be furthest from the case. This is what's popular right now, unfortunately.

Great post, cfrs.

According to the article that Wickersham wrote, it appears that Sashi went to Haslam w/the plan rather than Haslam searching out Sashi to carry out the plan.

I maintain that the plan was ill-advised because it was almost impossible for the principles to survive such epic losing.

I'll bow out now, because Memphis is on one of his crusades and this thread will only get uglier.

Yet we had double digit picks in both 2015 and 2016. Before he ever got here.

Then why did he have to replace almost every other skill position on the roster as well? Try again grasshopper.

Sashi didn't have anything to do with all 5 of those. Two of those we get just because. Sashi did have something to do with where those two picks were in the 1st round.

I give Sashi credit for one thing - botching the McCarron trade. He fell on the sword for that one. And I am grateful.

He didn't.