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Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: Squires
Originally Posted By: tastybrownies


People tend to not be as careful if the money they're spending is someone else's.


Being an ordinary American does not mean they will be any more fiscally responsible. AOC wants to spend like a teenager that got a hold of her parents credit card.


So over dramatic... AOC the she devil rolleyes


Given the cost of the green deal, this is not over dramatic.
I never said she was the devil, simply stating she is as fiscally irresponsible as the rest of Washington. Please enlighten me on AOC fiscally responsible ideas.


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I think that depends. I mean if one truly believes that our planet is on the cusp of destroying itself if fossil fuels are continued to be used, what cost is too high?

I believe that this "new green deal" being irresponsible is more a matter of what the costs of not passing it will be. And that can only be known by what you believe about climate change.


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I'm curious on how they priced a plan that is literally completely conceptual with no groundwork based in actual policy or planning.

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Well they have to have sticker shock on their side, so.....

I'm sure they didn't take into account all of the jobs and tax money that would be generated by it that will help offset costs.


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Like all the tax revenue solyndra generated.


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Originally Posted By: Squires
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: Squires
Originally Posted By: tastybrownies


People tend to not be as careful if the money they're spending is someone else's.


Being an ordinary American does not mean they will be any more fiscally responsible. AOC wants to spend like a teenager that got a hold of her parents credit card.


So over dramatic... AOC the she devil rolleyes


Given the cost of the green deal, this is not over dramatic.
I never said she was the devil, simply stating she is as fiscally irresponsible as the rest of Washington. Please enlighten me on AOC fiscally responsible ideas.


I'm not chasing you down a GOPer rabbit hole bro. Just not going to do it. You believe what you want to believe and I'll stick to the team with ideas that help working people.

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Originally Posted By: CHSDawg
I'm curious on how they priced a plan that is literally completely conceptual with no groundwork based in actual policy or planning.


Fox News reported it will cost too much and is just insane... can't you see the koolaid ring around his mouth?

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Originally Posted By: Squires
Like all the tax revenue solyndra generated.


Do you have any clue how much we spend on R&D type projects in any given year? SHORT ANSWER IS NO! Most of them are black book science projects for the military, but business gets access to the ideas after we pay for them. Solyndra was a drop in the bucket. Get out of here with that whataboutism trash, you might as well be speaking Russian.

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Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: Squires
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: Squires
Originally Posted By: tastybrownies


People tend to not be as careful if the money they're spending is someone else's.


Being an ordinary American does not mean they will be any more fiscally responsible. AOC wants to spend like a teenager that got a hold of her parents credit card.


So over dramatic... AOC the she devil rolleyes


Given the cost of the green deal, this is not over dramatic.
I never said she was the devil, simply stating she is as fiscally irresponsible as the rest of Washington. Please enlighten me on AOC fiscally responsible ideas.


I'm not chasing you down a GOPer rabbit hole bro. Just not going to do it. You believe what you want to believe and I'll stick to the team with ideas that help working people.


As I thought, you have nothing.


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Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: Squires
Like all the tax revenue solyndra generated.


Do you have any clue how much we spend on R&D type projects in any given year? SHORT ANSWER IS NO! Most of them are black book science projects for the military, but business gets access to the ideas after we pay for them. Solyndra was a drop in the bucket. Get out of here with that whataboutism trash, you might as well be speaking Russian.


Quit your crying about whataboutism, you use them all the time. Do you really think this is going to be cheap? Years ago the air force academy spent 18 million on solar panels that only produced 25% of their power. Denver airport spent 6 million on solar panels and all that powers is their aircraft rescue and fire fighter training academy.

Overhauling the entire fleet of cars and airplanes, that's not going to happen for free.


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Originally Posted By: Squires
Like all the tax revenue solyndra generated.


Or all that tax revenue Amazon and Foxconn have generated? lol

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I guess you miss my point all together. I don't care about the cost as much about doing the good for everyday Joes and rebuilding the lost middle class. GOPer politics are not going to do that in any significant way.

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Quote:
Please enlighten me on AOC fiscally responsible ideas.


rofl Distracting from trump’s fiscal responsibility. Nice power move. Please continue.


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Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
I guess you miss my point all together. I don't care about the cost as much about doing the good for everyday Joes and rebuilding the lost middle class. GOPer politics are not going to do that in any significant way.


Bro all they can do is call out the minority. A woman, or a person of color someone lower to them. Set them up for the future gotcha’s.

It’s like the automaker GM, or Yahoo, who finally appointed women as their CEO’s. This only when they knew they were about to fail hoping those appointments may slow the burn in someway. Which by the way worked out for the greedy white guys again.


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Trade deficit soars to 10-year high in 2018, foiling Trump White House effort to rein it in

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trade-...t-in-2019-03-06

U.S. Budget Deficit Widens 77 Percent

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...evenue-declines

yo conservatives, yall were posting articles about the deficits non stop. what happened? why did yall stop when trump got into office?

is this an admittance that you guys never actually cared about it to begin with?


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Originally Posted By: Swish
Trade deficit soars to 10-year high in 2018, foiling Trump White House effort to rein it in

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trade-...t-in-2019-03-06

U.S. Budget Deficit Widens 77 Percent

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...evenue-declines

yo conservatives, yall were posting articles about the deficits non stop. what happened? why did yall stop when trump got into office?

is this an admittance that you guys never actually cared about it to begin with?


What about Hilary?
What about Obama?
It's the communist Media!
It's because of the communist witch hunt!
What about Benghazi


The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Originally Posted By: mgh888
Originally Posted By: Swish
Trade deficit soars to 10-year high in 2018, foiling Trump White House effort to rein it in

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trade-...t-in-2019-03-06

U.S. Budget Deficit Widens 77 Percent

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...evenue-declines

yo conservatives, yall were posting articles about the deficits non stop. what happened? why did yall stop when trump got into office?

is this an admittance that you guys never actually cared about it to begin with?


What about Hilary?
What about Obama?
It's the communist Media!
It's because of the communist witch hunt!
What about Benghazi





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Originally Posted By: Swish
Trade deficit soars to 10-year high in 2018, foiling Trump White House effort to rein it in

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trade-...t-in-2019-03-06

U.S. Budget Deficit Widens 77 Percent

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...evenue-declines

yo conservatives, yall were posting articles about the deficits non stop. what happened? why did yall stop when trump got into office?

is this an admittance that you guys never actually cared about it to begin with?


The deficit was on a downward spiral long before Trump superconfused


John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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the deficit was lowering under obama. i've already posted the stats over and over again throughout the threads.

its rising back under trump. try harder.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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You can't use facts or data to change the minds of people who already "know".


The more things change the more they stay the same.
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The national debt and the spending deficit are two different animals. Trump's failing at getting either under control.


And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir

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Originally Posted By: PastorMarc
Originally Posted By: Swish
Trade deficit soars to 10-year high in 2018, foiling Trump White House effort to rein it in

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trade-...t-in-2019-03-06

U.S. Budget Deficit Widens 77 Percent

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...evenue-declines

yo conservatives, yall were posting articles about the deficits non stop. what happened? why did yall stop when trump got into office?

is this an admittance that you guys never actually cared about it to begin with?


The deficit was on a downward spiral long before Trump superconfused


Love him or hate him, the deficit was on it's way down under Obama,,,, The tax cuts are killing america


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Quote:
i've already posted the stats over and over again throughout the threads.



Haven't you heard?
"Stats are for loosers."


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Originally Posted By: jfanent
The national debt and the spending deficit are two different animals. Trump's failing at getting either under control.


Apparently, it's a little more challenging than most think...


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I'm not sure what anyone expected from the self proclaimed king of debt.

IMO the truth is that neither party is actually concerned about government spending as long as the money is being spent on the things they support. When you spend it on the things they don't support it's suddenly an issue.

There are exceptions but they're few and far between.


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looks like we need a grand bargain, bro.

at this point, its one of the few options we have.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Trump promised to shrink the trade deficit. Instead, it exploded.

The Commerce Department said Wednesday that — despite more than two years of President Trump’s “America First” policies — the United States last year posted a $891.2 billion merchandise trade deficit, the largest in the nation’s 243-year history.

The trade gap with China also hit a record $419 billion, underscoring the stakes for the president’s bid to reach a deal with Chinese President Xi Jinping as soon as this month.

The department’s final 2018 trade report, which was delayed by the partial government shutdown, showed that the United States bought far more in foreign goods than it sold to customers in Africa, Asia, Europe and North America. The shortfall topped the 2006 record of $838.3 billion, set as the housing bubble was peaking, and marked the third consecutive year of rising deficits.

A broader measure of the nation’s trade performance, which includes the services sector, showed a $621 billion deficit. That reflected a deterioration of more than $100 billion from the figure Trump inherited from president Barack Obama.

It has been evident for months that Trump was not shrinking a trade gap that he calls “unsustainable” and that he says represents a major transfer of wealth from Americans to foreigners. Over the past year, even as he imposed tariffs on foreign-made solar panels, washing machines, steel, aluminum and assorted goods from China, imports roared ahead of exports.

The president thus begins his reelection drive with a core campaign promise unfulfilled — and with a recent flurry of economic research showing that his embrace of tariffs is damaging the U.S. economy.

Economists say the trade deficit is swelling because of broad economic forces, including a chronic shortfall in national savings that was exacerbated by last year’s $1.5 trillion corporate and personal income tax cut. As cash-flush businesses and consumers increased their spending, purchases of imported goods rose while the overvalued dollar weighed on exports.

“Macroeconomics end up ruling. You can’t wish it away. You can’t tariff it away,” said William Reinsch, a former Commerce Department official now at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

The Commerce Department report comes amid indications that negotiations with China over a broad trade agreement may be in their final weeks. China has offered to buy a reported $1.2 trillion in additional American products over the next six years in a deal that reportedly would ease each side’s tariffs, usher in changes to Beijing’s state-led economic model and include tough new enforcement mechanisms.

But most economists say that such increased Chinese purchases probably would only divert U.S. shipments from other foreign customers, shrinking the trade gap with China but leaving the global balance largely unchanged. With the economy at or close to full employment, U.S. farms and factories have a limited ability to sharply increase output to meet a sudden increase in Chinese orders.

“That reality is not going to change,” said economist Matthew J. Slaughter, dean of the Tuck School of Business at Dartmouth College.

Any deal with China would mark a milestone in Trump’s tariff war, although not its end. The Commerce Department on Monday began investigating whether imports of titanium sponges, used in chemical plants and military hardware, represent a national security threat.

The president has used similar studies to impose tariffs on steel and aluminum and has threatened to apply them to imported cars and car parts.

Trump persists with the import levies even as some supporters also push for him to act on other forces fueling the trade deficit, including a robust dollar.

The dollar is now valued 19 percent above its 10-year average against the currencies of major U.S. trading partners, according to Federal Reserve data.

The high dollar acts as a price increase for American exporters, making it harder to compete with foreign rivals.

“A competitive dollar is the most important tool we have to spur economic growth and job creation in the U.S. economy,” said Michael Stumo, chief executive of the Coalition for a Prosperous America.

The United States typically runs a sizable surplus in its global services trade, which includes spending by foreign tourists and students, financial services and consulting, partly offsetting the larger goods gap.

The best chance of the trade deficit shrinking anytime soon would require an economic downturn that no one wants. In 2009, amid the Great Recession, the trade deficit fell 40 percent from the peak three years earlier, to about $506 billion.

“If you want to lower the trade deficit, have a recession,” Reinsch said.

Trump has long been convinced that the United States gets a raw deal from its trade ties. As a New York real estate magnate in the 1980s, he routinely complained about Japanese auto companies and investors who bought iconic American properties such as Rockefeller Center and California’s Pebble Beach.

In a 2016 campaign speech in Pennsylvania, Trump called the trade deficit a “politician-made disaster” and promised swift change. “We can turn it all around — and we can turn it around fast,” he said.

Trump has used tariffs and import taxes more aggressively than any American president since the 1930s. In a March 2 speech at the Conservative Political Action Conference , he called them “the greatest negotiating tool in the history of our country” and credited them with bringing trade partners such as China to the bargaining table.

The president has negotiated new agreements with South Korea and North American neighbors Canada and Mexico, and he appears close to a deal with China. But it’s too soon to say what effect those agreements will have on the deficit.

Changes in U.S. tariffs called for in the South Korean deal took effect only on Jan. 1, while Congress has yet to act on the new North American agreement.

Still, tariffs have proved to be a blunt weapon. The president often boasts about how much money the U.S. government is reaping from tariffs.

“Billions of dollars, right now, are pouring into our Treasury,” he told the Conservative Political Action Conference on March 2, adding that Chinese exporters are absorbing almost the entire burden of the tariffs.

But a pair of new studies concludes that he is wrong. “When we impose a tariff, it is the domestic consumers and purchasers of imports that bear the full cost of the tariffs,” said David Weinstein, an economics professor at Columbia University, who co-wrote one of the papers.

Weinstein said the president appears to be relying on a 2018 analysis of data from the 1990s, when the United States represented a larger share of the global economy and had more leverage over exporters in other countries.

Weinstein’s study, co-written with Mary Amiti of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York and Princeton University’s Stephen J. Redding, reviewed what actually occurred last year after U.S. tariffs took effect. It concluded that Americans paid the entire tariff bill.

A second study — by four economists from the University of California at Los Angeles, Yale University, the University of California at Berkeley and Columbia University — reached the same conclusion.

That study also found that workers in Republican-leaning counties, especially in farm states, suffered the greatest losses from tariffs that U.S. trading partners imposed in retaliation for the president’s actions.

Trump’s tariffs also may cause U.S. companies to write off sizable investments in their Chinese factories as they scramble to shift operations to safer venues, said the study by Weinstein, Amiti and Redding. If the tariffs continue, about $165 billion worth of trade would be redirected each year, they added.

The study also found sizable costs relative to any expected benefits. If the tariffs led to the creation of 35,000 new manufacturing jobs — equal to all the steel and aluminum jobs lost in the past decade — they would cost $195,000 per job, the study found.

“The costs of the trade war are quite large relative to optimistic estimates of any gains that are likely to be achieved,” the three economists wrote.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/...94cf_story.html

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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
I'm not sure what anyone expected from the self proclaimed king of debt.

IMO the truth is that neither party is actually concerned about government spending as long as the money is being spent on the things they support. When you spend it on the things they don't support it's suddenly an issue.

There are exceptions but they're few and far between.


When someone says "I'm the only one that can fix it" That's when anyone with a brain runs the other way.


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Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg


The trade gap with China also hit a record $419 billion, underscoring the stakes for the president’s bid to reach a deal with Chinese President Xi Jinping as soon as this month.



I hope it happens. If and when there is a deal - stocks will bounce - and that is when I am planning to pull back. Currently I am 100% vested in stocks (other than my 401K - but even that is aggressively slanted). . . . I've basically recovered back to where my balances were about 6 months ago, feel that I need to pull back but the timing is the key.


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Originally Posted By: PastorMarc
Originally Posted By: Swish
Trade deficit soars to 10-year high in 2018, foiling Trump White House effort to rein it in

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trade-...t-in-2019-03-06

U.S. Budget Deficit Widens 77 Percent

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...evenue-declines

yo conservatives, yall were posting articles about the deficits non stop. what happened? why did yall stop when trump got into office?

is this an admittance that you guys never actually cared about it to begin with?


The deficit was on a downward spiral long before Trump superconfused


This. People talk as if Obama balanced the budget. He didn't. Bush added a bunch of debt, so did Obama and Trump is continuing it. This isn't a R or D thing. Both sides are irresponsible with spending and it needs to stop. It doesn't look like any of the candidates in 2020 are interested in controlling the spending.


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the deficit lowered under obama.

learn the facts.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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He lowered it after running over trillion dollar deficit for 4 years. Bush highest deficit was 458 billion in 2008. Obama only came under that once(in 2015). Then started going back up in 2016.


It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
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obama dealt with the recession at its peak.

context matters. and it also doesn't change the fact that the deficit lowered under obama, and is rising under trump.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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j/c:

Have any of you geniuses ever contemplated that instead of arguing along party lines that perhaps you should place more importance on the problem when you are considering the platforms of respective candidates instead of arguing about who did what?

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part of figuring out the problem is finding out who caused it, and who has the better plan to get us out.

the facts say obama lowered the deficit. the facts say trump is causing it to rise again.

so the solution is? elect obama again smile


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Quote:
so the solution is? elect obama again


wink

Wishful thinking for many in the US.
22A says no. 8 years/2 terms is the absolute limit. It would take an act of congress to amend the amendment.

Now, he could tag along as Veep... if Biden would chose to run with his old mate. Nothing illegal about that.


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Quote:

part of figuring out the problem is finding out who caused it...


The problem is not a new thing. It's been a ongoing problem for longer than I can remember.

I'm not defending Trump, Swish. I hate the SOB. I'm just saying I remember reading all the BS on this forum before the election and y'all are worried about civil rights, gun control, and championing your particular parties. Both sides. Not just yours.

I remember bringing up the national debt and folks like you pooh-pawed it. Don't cry about it now when you guys could have cared less about during the election.

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perhaps you missed the comment in the OP

Quote:
i'm posting this because conservatives said they cared mainly about this issue.


conservatives are the ones who posted non stop. im simply asking why they stopped under trump.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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I did miss it.

I will answer it though.

They stopped talking about it because Trump didn't help the situation despite his BS promises. I knew he was talking out of his ass when he said he could fix the national debt.

Both sides suck right now and as long as people defend one side and place all the blame on the other side, these problems will continue.

Perhaps it is time for some to consider to hold all of our political players responsible and stop w/the one-sided rhetoric?

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,480
Swish Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,480
i acknowledge that both sides suck many of times.

but im also not gonna sit here and act like the dems agenda doesn't represent my views more than the republicans.

the reason i've stopped talking about both sides for the last few years is because i've already stated that we need a 3rd major party. until then though, im going with the dems, who atleast under the last president, had the deficit being lowered. thats at least a start.

what isn't a start is under trump, now BOTH the deficit and debt has risen, as well as the trade deficit.

so while we can easily point to "both sides" as the low hanging fruit, the reality is that the guy currently in charged whined about 3 aspects of the economy being out of control.

and yet those same 3 aspects are now WORSE under his leadership. im glad you answered, but you're not a maga hatter.

im waiting for them to answer.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

- Theodore Roosevelt
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