It's especially impressive when you add in the fact that he was thrown to almost 3 yards short of the line to make, on average. Other receivers were thrown to over the line to make. Landry was used in a different manner, yet still converted 1st downs.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I must be a MORONIC DRUNK cause i disagree with u ... you’ve got your STATS to back u up .... u seem to always forget the one where he had more catches in his first 3 or 4 years than anyone in the history of the game .... then there’s that FLUKE STAT that he made the Pro Bowl in 4 of his first 5 years ..... yup ... u got me ... ...
Thanks y-town for being rational and bringing some stats to the table that blow chs’s up ... WISH I COULD STAY AS LEVEL HEADED AS U .. THANKS AGAIN .. .... ooops ..sorry bout the caps ..
I watched a lot of bad dolphin football in 2017 just to watch VG ... and i said it earlier and u brought up the stats to prove my mind .. even though i was drunk according to chs .. *LOL* ...
He would almost always do what he had to do to get the 1st down... either out quick the db’s (he’s not fast but he sure is quick) or bull them over or slither through the crevice to get it ... i swear .. that was the sole reason I watched them ... he was SO MUCH FUN TO WATCH ...
It is fun watching CHS,Device and Memph peeing into the wind ...
On what down? The overwhelming majority of his catches go for a 1st down. (264/481)
He is great at converting 1st downs. You don't do that when you get fewer yards than needed for a conversion.
Huh?
Just to debunk the myth...
Here were this years starting WR and their career first down conversion percentage.
Mike Evans 79% Marquis Goodwin 79% Kenny Golladay 76% Alshon Jeffery 74% Deandre Hopkins 73% Julio Jones 71% Sammy Watkins 71% Courtland Sutton 71% Kenny Stills 70% John Brown 70% Tyrell Williams 70% Josh Doctson 70% Allen Robinson 68% AJ Green 68% TY Hilton 68% Paul Richardson 68% Torrey Smith 68% Marvin Jones 67% Marquise Lee 67% Desean Jackson 67% Jordy Nelson 67% Sterling Shepherd 66% Tyler Boyd 66% Cooper Kupp 67% Odell Beckham 65% Antonio Brown 65% Adam Theilen 65% Corey Davis 65% Larry Ftizgerald 64% Michael Thomas 64% Keenan Allen 64% Emmanuel Sanders 64% Robert Woods 64% Donte Moncrief 64% Michael Gallup 64% Doug Baldwin 63% Juju Smith-Schuster 63% Zay Jones 63% Rashard Higgins 63% Antonio Callaway 63% Travis Benjamin 62% Devante Parker 62% Amari Cooper 62% Ted Ginn 62% Michael Crabtree 61% Calvin Ridley 61% Cole Beasley 61% Mohamed Sanu 60% DJ Moore 60% Tyreek Hill 59% Pierre Garcon 59% Brandin Cooks 59% Chester Rodgers 59% Randall Cobb 58% Tyler Lockett 58% Adam Humphries 58% Quincy Enunwa 58% Davante Adams 57% Dede Westbrook 57% Stephon Diggs 56% Curtis Samuel 56% Jarvis Landry 55% Julian Edelman 54% Robby Anderson 54% Taylor Gabriel 53% Nelson Agholor 48%
Still think Landry is great at converting first downs?
Give me the stats for converting 3rd downs, give me the stats for third down drops, give me the stats for not converting because he cut off his pattern before the 1st down marker... then maybe there is a conversation (there won't be because VG is a great possession receiver). This argument is rather silly IMO.
Its not an argument at all .. that takes two sides ... having one side IGNORING his accomplishments/CONTRIBUTIONS and MORE IMPORTANTLY his TALENT makes it a schooling as opposed to an argument ...
Dudes a straight up BALLER/PLAYMAKER ... saying otherwise is what is silly ... u gotta have your head buried extremely deep in the sand to not recognize that ...
I’m sooooo happy we have him ...
Can’t wait to see what Bake and VG and the rest of the recieving corps can do with an entire off season and camps too work together ...
But I'm not sure what's more funny.... watching these guys argue with themselves or seeing them go on and on while ignoring what is actually being said.... Hmmm....
OVERRATED ..... OVERRATED ..... OVERRATED .... its only one catch Pit .. lets not put to much stock into it ... i’m sure there heroes boys Kenny Britt and Corey Coleman would have taken for it for 6 ... ...
And I've watched too many Dolphins games over the past 6 years, which is exactly why I said he does a great job at getting you 8 yards when you need 10.
On what down? The overwhelming majority of his catches go for a 1st down. (264/481)
He is great at converting 1st downs. You don't do that when you get fewer yards than needed for a conversion.
In his career, he had 481 catches and among those are 264 1st downs. What receivers do you think do better than that, right off the top of your head, over the same 5 years Landry has been in the NFL? How about Larry Fitzgerald? (268)Julio Jones? Best receiver in the game, with consistently good QB play? (379) I would almost bet that he's the best. Deandre Hopkins? I would expect that he's near the top with 346. Mike Evans? 314. Antonio Brown? 367. Does Landry have elite numbers? No. What kind of QBs was he working with, and what was the scheme? I wonder what his numbers would look like if he had worked with Roelisberger, or Brees, for the 1st 4 years of his career?
TY Hilton? 270. Robert Woods? 196. Brandin Cooks? 213. Keenan Allen? 216. Adam Thielen? 189.
Any down. If the defense is playing prevent, emphasizing bending but not braking, then he's eating the underneath route all day. On first down his average yard per target is 7.8 and his average yards gained is 11.7.
Score differential split
Tied 124 78 737 9.4 1 44 Trailing 480 332 3479 10.5 17 187 He does great at the traditional slot, underneath routes. He does it here to a good extent.
Last edited by CHSDawg; 02/19/1905:06 PM. Reason: accidentally posted this early trying to format the stats. Come back in 20 minutes give or take. :)
And I've watched too many Dolphins games over the past 6 years, which is exactly why I said he does a great job at getting you 8 yards when you need 10.
On what down? The overwhelming majority of his catches go for a 1st down. (264/481)
He is great at converting 1st downs. You don't do that when you get fewer yards than needed for a conversion.
In his career, he had 481 catches and among those are 264 1st downs. What receivers do you think do better than that, right off the top of your head, over the same 5 years Landry has been in the NFL? How about Larry Fitzgerald? (268)Julio Jones? Best receiver in the game, with consistently good QB play? (379) I would almost bet that he's the best. Deandre Hopkins? I would expect that he's near the top with 346. Mike Evans? 314. Antonio Brown? 367. Does Landry have elite numbers? No. What kind of QBs was he working with, and what was the scheme? I wonder what his numbers would look like if he had worked with Roelisberger, or Brees, for the 1st 4 years of his career?
TY Hilton? 270. Robert Woods? 196. Brandin Cooks? 213. Keenan Allen? 216. Adam Thielen? 189.
Any down. If the defense is playing prevent, emphasizing bending but not braking, then he's eating the underneath route all day. On first down his average yard per target is 7.8 and his average yards gained is 11.7.
He does great at the traditional slot, underneath routes. He does it here to a good extent. You feed him an underneath route, he'll eat all day. He's ferocious, doesn't mind going over the middle and can catch a cold in the desert. There's a lot of things I like about VG. That said, I posted a lot that I'd rather have Odell instead. When we got VG, I was cool, but I emphasized that we can't get complacent at WR and still need to round out our WR core. Now, I'm seeing a lot of talk that our WR group is golden, and maybe since the second time this decade, it's good. But there's still room for improvement as in a #1 WR.
As for the comparisons, I'll offer just a few to save our time few. Odell Beckham Jr., Michael Thomas, guys who have had similar usage rates. And DeAndre, because I thought it was a fair comparison given how abysmal their QB play was.
Mike Thomas has 207 first downs on 321 reception. That's crazy. I understand that he has one of the most accurate QBs throwing to him, which helps him a lot. But I think what's more important is, when you look at the splits, look at his y/trgt compared to the distance of the first down. Other than first down, where he runs 9.8 yards, he's always running past the first down marker.
DeAndre has 384 first downs on 538 receptions. He's constantly running deeper routes made for an outside WR.
I understand Jarvis can catch everything thrown his way. They could recreate that Braylon Edwards, catching blindfold commercial for ESPN fantasy sports, in one take, no cgi on a snowy day with no gloves. But with the Dolphins, they historically did worse when they targeted him more than a few times a day. With us, I think he could convert into being that #1 WR, he's still young. He has a great work ethic. And I think we're using him better. But I ultimately think that if we want him to be the best him, we're going to need a true #1 WR and not one named Callaway or Perriman. They're good guys, but not #1. We'll see about Callaway, and I hope he can do it. But a guy who can work the outside long and hard, will help slot guys like Landry to cut them up.
My bad, it took me a bit longer to look up some stats
I must be a MORONIC DRUNK cause i disagree with u ... you’ve got your STATS to back u up .... u seem to always forget the one where he had more catches in his first 3 or 4 years than anyone in the history of the game .... then there’s that FLUKE STAT that he made the Pro Bowl in 4 of his first 5 years ..... yup ... u got me ... ...
Look, Diam, there's many people I disagree with here on a daily basis and rarely does it involve insults. I don't think you're drunk because you disagree with me. I think so because you said it so much in PP. In addition to your posting style. Like I've said in the past, how in the hell could this forum chase away Hairdawg for being hard to read, and keep with this. I don't care either way.
Jarvis has more catches than anyone in the NFL in 4 years. He was tied with Odell going into year 4. Odell plays 4 games that season, in addition to the 5 games he missed his previous year. Michael Thomas has since shattered the record and is going into his 4th year. Jarvis also has the record for players in 5 years. It's a cool piece of trivia, a stat as you will. However, with the NFL playing at a quicker pace while more teams are passing the down, it's a stat we'll see be repeatedly broken time and time again.
Yes, especially if they're being paid triple their worth.
imo best way to value anything is by comparing the opportunity cost. I always thought that Joe Jurvicious was a great WR, but I would never pay him #1 money. When you pay someone a lot of money, you need to make sure that they can actually do the job. otherwise you're just sinking money into a problem.
No, it really doesn't matter what he is paid.
If we were scraping the ceiling, then it might, but we're not.
There is a cap floor. We were probably brushing that. Might as well pay a good player, even if you think he is overpaid to avoid getting fined and paying for no player.
Quit acting like it is your money. It isn't.
I just look at it like this, I am glad Jarvis is on my team. I am not going to get bent out of shape over what the guy is being paid.
If it interferes with signing other players down the road, then I might.
Chill man.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Yes, especially if they're being paid triple their worth.
imo best way to value anything is by comparing the opportunity cost. I always thought that Joe Jurvicious was a great WR, but I would never pay him #1 money. When you pay someone a lot of money, you need to make sure that they can actually do the job. otherwise you're just sinking money into a problem.
No, it really doesn't matter what he is paid.
If we were scraping the ceiling, then it might, but we're not.
There is a cap floor. We were probably brushing that. Might as well pay a good player, even if you think he is overpaid to avoid getting fined and paying for no player.
Quit acting like it is your money. It isn't.
I just look at it like this, I am glad Jarvis is on my team. I am not going to get bent out of shape over what the guy is being paid.
If it interferes with signing other players down the road, then I might.
Not wasting my time reading him, device or Memph on this thread anymore ...
Sounds like he’s whining about VG being overpaid again ...
He made 3 pro bowls in his first 4 years ... had more catches than any wr in the history of the game in his first 3 or 4 years in the game ...
The mans not overpaid ... by the start of next season he’ll be around the 15th highest paid wr in the game ... right about where he belongs ... in years 3 and 4 he’ll be a BARGAIN for what we paid over the life of the contract ...
lol i'm not bent out of shape. Y'all think that any criticism is getting butt hurt. I agree that we needed to spend that money. That's why I understood the Britt and Bowe signings. Which is also why I didn't understand not signing TP. I don't think it's a bad contract now, but when people bring up how he might be a cap casualty down the line and that we should look for another WR in the draft, people get extremely mad on here. We all have brown and orange glasses on, just don't let yours turn red, because you start seeing everything that color.
I also hope that all players maximize their career earnings over their careers. Unlike others on the board who call guys like Bell and Brown selfish and ungrateful idiots. Or rooting against Kaepernick to continue unemployment.
First off, are you aware of who you are in bed with? Dude, those guys are so polar to your life's philosophy that it might not be capable of being measured.
Secondly, you are dissing Landry's accomplishments because they will be broken in the future? Seriously?
What about Baker's record? Should we discount that for the very same reasons you dismissed Landry's?
Btw---------Corey Coleman, Kenny Britt, Ricardo Louis, etc are not on any of those lists despite the way the league is trending.
It's a capitalist society and I'm not going to infringe my ideas on anyone. I'll support the worker getting as much money as he can from the person who profits off the work. But this conversation is ending in this thread now because I want to talk about football in the football forum.
I'm not dissing the accomplishment. It's really good. But it's like saying the guy who ran the 4 minute mile is the fastest mile guy in the world. It's not that it'll be broken, it's that it'll be broken in the immediate future. What he's done is very good. But to think that it's anything more meaningful than trivia is misguided imo.
I was actually not going to mention his advanced splits, because it's less yards per attempt, catch percentage, reception, and yards. I like what Baker is doing. But adding another weapon never hurts. Greatest show on turf wasn't orchestrated by just a bag boy. They had some bad men on that team. Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne and Manning. I'm just saying that a #1 WR is more important than a third string nickel linebacker. I want Baker to have talent at the wide out position. There's nothing wrong with that.
lol beside Coleman, I liked none of those guys. I always said that Sashi could never hit the WR spot and at the time I thought it was stupid to draft 4 WRs in a weak class, when the following year would be stronger. Hell, that year I wanted Treadwell over Coleman. But you can look back at my posts in the draft forums over the years and see me advocate for guys like Cooper Kupp, DJ Moore, Courtland Sutton and Corey Davis. It's funny, when I advocated for them, you were saying that we had good WRs, but they just needed 3 years to develop. I get it, some people can only see as far as the present, because they refuse to see the future.
But you can look back at my posts in the draft forums over the years and see me advocate for guys like Cooper Kupp, DJ Moore, Courtland Sutton and Corey Davis. It's funny, when I advocated for them, you were saying that we had good WRs, but they just needed 3 years to develop. I get it, some people can only see as far as the present, because they refuse to see the future.
Here we go again. I never said we had good receivers. Sheesh! See, you are becoming more like device by the minute. Later CHS, I'm not going to play that kind of game.
Yes, especially if they're being paid triple their worth.
imo best way to value anything is by comparing the opportunity cost. I always thought that Joe Jurvicious was a great WR, but I would never pay him #1 money. When you pay someone a lot of money, you need to make sure that they can actually do the job. otherwise you're just sinking money into a problem.
Joe isn't the receiver Landry is, so that's a faulty comparison right off the bat, and I liked JJ.
Landry caught 81 balls last season with a QB who spreads it around. He's also a leader, not just in the WR room but the entire room.
This bashing Landry BS is pathetic. I don't say stuff like this often, but people who question Landry's value to this team are misguided.
They Don't know what they are talking about. In this case.
I actually really like what he brought to the team. I completely underestimated his worth to the #culture It's actually a reason why I want to draft a WR high, so he can learn from Landry what it means to be a leader and not just a pro. I also really warmed up to the deal after Sammy Watkins got a dumb contract. All I'm saying is that he's a great slot guy, but he might see himself on the outside looking in, in a few years.
We need to draft D high, we've got young wr who deserve a chance to develop.
Got a young QB that has a season in with some young WR's that they can grow together and get the chance to develop together.
Imo..sometimes when a young QB has a Vet WR that is hard to handle..That can be a disruption to the learning cube .
Amen. When you turn that back, inside out, that same disruptive veteran can destroy the chances for a young corp to develop together.
That why I feel that someone like AB, or even OBJ, is almost a crap shoot, because of the possible downside. It would be different if we were devoid of talent at WR, or had not witnessed an air-raid QB translate to the NFL right before our eyes. Not looking for a #1 in free agency because they are needy, greedy divas... and the price is too high. Not looking to burn a 1st round pick on one in the draft either.
It's not about bashing Landry. No one is doing that. It's about realizing who he is. Be sure to read the entire thread instead of just reading the stuff Vers makes up.
I don't need to read anybody else's thoughts to formulate an opinion of my own (sometimes I'm right, sometimes not), although I find myself constantly learning here. It evolves.
Landry is a big asset to this team, I believe that for sure.
I think you know me well enough to understand I don't make things up. I get things wrong at times, just like everyone else. But, I am not a liar. If people have followed the discussions between device and I, I am positive that they know who is the one "making things up."
You can read the whole thread, but some of the stats people are arguing are baffling. It would be one thing if it were a player on another team, that we hadn't seen... and still just as useless.
I can't remember ever thinking "man, why can't Jarvis get those first downs?"
Besides, Jarvis has been a great 1st down weapon all season... He gets you a lot more 2nd and 2s. The most "dangerous" down and distance in football (I'm lookin' at you Baker).
I can only recall one time Jarvis failed to get a first down with a game on the line. It was a ball thrown behind him that he couldn't corral with one hand... It was a very tough catch that most fans expected him to make - because they were conditioned to believe he could catch anything thrown his way - as he proved all season.
However, all I said is that Landry is overpaid. I explained why. He did exactly what I thought he'd do this year and I still think he's overpaid.
People are saying they can't wait for the WR group to improve. If we get a #1 he will be so much better they say. Doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement for Jarvis.
Then you have people finally saying he wasn't a #1 but saying he's not overpaid despite us paying him like a #1 receiver.
I have no problem with Landry at a cheaper price. I'll even admit I said I didn't really want him. I still think there are better receivers to be had especially at a better value.
I root for Jarvis. I hope he exceeds my expectations. I just think there are some here who really like to argue. And really like to argue with certain posters. They will change their stance just to argue.
I don't mind a good debate. However, the ones who continually insert words into my mouth and then argue against those words is simply getting out of hand.
I root for Jarvis. I hope he exceeds my expectations. I just think there are some here who really like to argue. And really like to argue with certain posters. They will change their stance just to argue.
I don't mind a good debate. However, the ones who continually insert words into my mouth and then argue against those words is simply getting out of hand.
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