DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Socialism - another hot button Fox/Right wing false narrative.

I've seen a surge in posters talking about socialism ... someone even posting how many deaths socialism in various countries of the world are attributed to socialism.

It's a totally false narrative contrived by Trump and the Right ... that's not what Democrats represent, it's not a slippery slope from capitalism to socialism if the Dems gain power. Anyone buying into this propaganda is simply parroting the fake agenda that Fox and co pump out.

I caught this at the gym this morning and thought it did a pretty decent job of highlighting the B.S. and how it is being weaponized.

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/...-newday-vpx.cnn

Includes a mention of how Bill Clinton was dubbed a socialist - the guy is so far to the center it's not funny - but it shows this is a standard fear monger play by the Right.

"Keep your government hands off my medicare!"

LMAO that is an anti-socialism right wing statement meant to protect a government socialist medical program from becoming socialized medicine (Obamacare/single payer)... smh

EDIT: It was also used to stop republicans from privatizing medicare.

anybody who has read up briefly on history knows that there was a concerted effort to make sure America was completely opposite of the Russians post WW2, since they were a socialist country.

so we have 60 years of this agenda to demonize socialism at every term, despite the fact that SS is our largest socialist policy to date.

the right still thinks this is the cold war, at least the old one anyway. so they continue pushing these outdated narratives about socialism, and use one or two countries of their choosing to go "see? see? it doesn't work!!"

the problem is that they will point to Venezuela as their ultimate proof, but won't look at the western european countries that have implemented both socialist policies combined with a free market economy, which has worked beautifully.

which is funny cause the right always talk about their european/anglo-saxon heritage, but won't mention that aspect of said heritage.

the other issue is that the agenda worked so well that literally anything that appears to benefit the majority over the few is viewed as socialism. example: raising taxes is considered socialism, according to the right. nevermind that dems/liberals dont even talk about changing the actual system, but simply raising the taxes in the same tax system is socialism.

in my opinion, we aren't balanced whatsoever. we lean far too much to capitalism, to the point where income inequality is completely out of control, the resources aren't even remotely balanced, and its got to the point where corporations control damn near every aspect of our government.

but because of that, the left gets demonized for pushing policies that simply bring us closer to that balance, and we start getting called all kinds of unamerican, unpatriotic, socialist commies blah blah blah, despite the truth that even with those policies implemented, we will still have more capitalism than any other country on the planet, and we will still be the wealthiest country in the planet.

but when we're constantly voting in favor of our corporate overlords instead of actual freedom, this is the end result.

I think it's the inverse of bringing up tiny countries like Denmark as some socialist utopia.

I'm not sure how the entire continent of Europe applies to your analogy.

Serious question ....are your for the U.S. being a socialist nation?

Europe is full of capitalist, democratic nations and governments ... but many have social healthcare and to some degree education. Many have government paid active care and support for the sick and unemployed (or troubled - drugs, abuse victims etc). Some more so than others. Many many studies consistently prove that providing the support for these individuals is cheaper than dealing with the results if you don't help and offer treatment.

I don't buy that scale matters - Germany provides free university education. They are a large enough country with a big enough population and GDP that if they can do it - any country wanting to do it *could* if they *wanted* to. .

Well what's your definition of "Socialist Nation"? .... Did Clinton run a Socialist Nation? Did Obama?

Heck - Obama was labeled a socialist for the affordable care act .... which is in essence the same system Romney established as a Republican in MA. Why didn't Romney get branded a Socialist?

As for Obamacare as it became known - it was so wildly unpopular the GOP struggled to nix it while they controlled all 3 branches of government! . . . turns out most Americans liked it and were better off under it - even though they didn't get to always keep their own Dr!

I'm for using some socialist policies to help the people within a capitalistic system. A blend.

It's exactly how they do things in Europe, Canada and most all of the free world to keep a balance that helps their people while letting capitalism flourish.

In America people just yell "SOCIALISM!" to refute or fight against anything and everything that helps the poor or the average American. It's a catch all phrase to prevent our people from having benefits such as healthcare.

So do I want our nation to be a socialist nation or government? Certainly not. But when you start labeling everything to help our people as socialist, it makes it hard to take those that do that seriously.

As of right now tax dollars fund pharmaceutical companies to the tune of billions every year while in America we pay the highest drug prices in the world.

In America the average cost per person for healthcare is over 10k per year. In Europe it ranges from 8k in Switzerland all the way down to 4.2 k in the United Kingdom.

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/char...alth-u-s-spends

Canada spends less than half per person at 4.8k.

These nations are actually ranked higher in quality of care while spending much less.

So you can put any label you like on it. Humanitarian, socialist or what ever suits your fancy. But if wanting a better healthcare system and more affordable prescription drug costs for all of us is a socialist idea, sign me up.

We saw what happens to capitalism when it's left unchecked. That's why labor unions, child labor laws and minimum wage came about. Every system needs checks and balances. If your view of healthcare and education is that we should forget about the actual people while allowing business to use human life and the education of our nation as some unfettered form of profits, then we disagree.

The health of our citizens shouldn't be a huge cash grab. The education of our youth is in direct correlation with what the future of our nation will be. If you think our future and the health of our nation is more about big business and profits than anything else, then we aren't going to agree.

Thanks for replying with a very thoughtful answer that I agree with. I also think that social policies to help people is a great and fair blend

Nobody will ever elect any socialists because they campaign on large government spending programs and the corresponding jacking up taxes to pay for it.

The working man says NOPE to that, they can't afford to pay more taxes. Business people and Upper Class would never vote for a socialist regardless. And the Dems are desperate to appeal to everybody, not just poor people. Why do you think Bernie was stonewalled? He wanted to jack up everybody's taxes 7%

There is no huge surge in talking about socialism on this forum.
It has always been there.
What's new is socialists trying to distance themselves from being labeled as socialists because they will never win an election with that moniker.

This is why OCD is quite bipolar and every other day claims he's not a socialist, then the next day claims he is.

You skunks are trying to deny the stripe on your back.

Guess what, it doesn't matter what color you dye yourselves, you and your policies still stink.

Did you watch the video clip? It's probably less than 5 minutes.

As for big government and spending ... you must not be paying attention to the likes of Reagan or Bush. As for fiscal responsibility - we can throw Trump into the mix.

As for the stripe down my back? I think that's a pre-conceived notion on your part. I might be left of you and many - socialist I am not.

I'm a full blown capitalist, however, the privatization and capitalization of healthcare and education has created a massive, detrimental divide. The poor and middle-class will eventually be left behind without either unless the motivations of profiteering from these industries is rethought. Everyone deserves a good education and quality healthcare. Part of the answer lies in corporate America paying their fair share. They do not. And there is no rational argument against them doing so. That's not socialism, it's simply common sense.

I thought Pit articulated about socialized healthcare very well ... I find it hard to argue with anything he said. Does that make him or me a socialist?

Add to that - that capitalism doesn't actually happen. When things turned to hell in a hand basket - what to Capitalist America do? Bailed out the Auto industry and bailed out the banks. That's not capitalism.

1 question - where do you draw the line on federal or state regulations. Protecting water supply? Environmental protection? Land use? Employee rights? ... just wondering.

I went out and bought a snow shovel today, spent the entire day shoveling snow for people.

Got attacked by a dog and ended up soaking wet and exhausted.

I did make $300 bucks though

My Socialist neighbor who sat on his arse all day, eating hotdogs cried that he didn't have a tenth that much cash so I should redistribute it because I made too much.

I wish. How do you feel about the public ownerships of companies like they do in Socialists countries?

Capitalism is fine in some industries, but in life essentials they should be either more regulated, of public controlled entities.

Things like healthcare, primary utilities (Gas, Water, Electric), should probably not be "For Profit". I do not include television services or internet services as primary utilities.

I don't need to watch your propaganda.

I watched last election season and saw exactly what happened. So I know exactly why you socialists are trying to deny who you are.

It will never change though. Because you still have to run on a socialist platform and you still have to propose jacked up taxes to pay for it. Because your robinhood ways will never pass a Congress that is bought and pay for by corporations.

And the common people will never vote for someone who wants to jack up their taxes 7%.

Do you see all the whining and complaining about the "Trump tax cuts" that didn't help many people? Now imagine the whining and complaining that will happen if you tell people they are getting their taxes raised 7%.

The Dems know you socialists are a fail. So you won't have a chance.

girl, you're literally begging for socialized health insurance. The market will not be able to keep prices down until they get rid of people with pre existing injury.

I have, but I may be getting off that train.

The health ins companies have started to come around and try to compete for me. Competition means lower prices. And this was the first year I wasn't dropped by my ins company. So my opinions about that are on hold for a while.

So they threw you some table scraps, and now you’re on hold?


Lolololololololol.

And my opinion is that socialists have zero chance.
Moderate Dems have a chance, especially against Trump.

So once again Bernie and whatever other socialists try to campaign....well they have zero chance.

It will be a moderate populist Democrat that challenges Trump.

Not any of these fringe factions. That's why the socialists are complaining about being labeled socialists.

You all are way too transparent.

It's cheaper than having my taxes jacked up 7%.

And I'd probably vote for a moderate populist Dem.
Because I can't stand Trump.
But vote for a socialist? Not in a trillion years.

I have a $5000 deductible. That’s before the insurance company kicks and and starts paying a portion of my bills.
I’ll take a 7% tax increase. It’ll cost me less in the long run.

Not true unless you are excessively unhealthy or traumatically injured. And need to spend 5K in deductible every single year for the rest of your life.

A deductible only matters if you have an actual problem. And to have that high of a deductible means you are choosing the cheapest possible health plan from your employer with lowest coverage.

Much like the rest of us, if you want better insurance than you need to choose a better health plan.

Medicare for all won't change that. Medicare is a bare bones health program.

So, with Medicare for all, not only will you be paying jacked up 7% in taxes, but you will also be getting a bare bones health plan that doesn't cover everything.

What a deal.

This is completely untrue. Medicare 4 All as the bill submitted includes zero deductibles.

And it also covers vision and dental.

Insuring nurse’s is expensive. Yes I chose a bare bones plan to save money as I rarely need to use my insurance benefits... of course last month I screwed my back up badly. Cost me dearly at the ER. My deductible is nearly covered already this year.
The thought/fear of being financially ruined by a medical diagnosis is real. I’ve seen it. Families shouldn’t have to wipe out all assets, inheritance, of their elderly parents, or what not, to cover their medical bills. Or to ‘spend down’ to assets less than $2000 to receive Medicaid. It’s criminal that we allow this to happen. Nursing homes are in the business of inheritance extraction. The care provided is laughable at most the places. Hell half of them don’t staff nurses 24 hours a day. Instead they rely on untrained/low skilled staff calling 911 for every fall, skin tear, minor injury. Passing the bill onto the tax payer. Meanwhile the facility owners keep staff low, profits high, and buy second or third homes.
Profit needs to be removed from this equation. Period.
Many of my co workers have family plans with crazy high premiums. Isn’t that a ‘tax’? Those premiums only account for part of their bill. When they do access their benifit they get hit with co-pays and leftover percentages that they have to cover. My guess is many of my co workers are being hit with regular bills that add up significantly over time. Ear infections, flu, stitches, etc things that most all kids end up with.
You keep focusing on ‘taxes’. Isn’t being constantly inundated with high premiums and medical bills and co pays etc a ‘tax’ on our finances?

“Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”... part of our constitution. Isn’t having access to healthcare without fear of going broke covered under this? I think so.

"The bill submitted" isn't what Medicare currently covers. The current Medicare has monthly premiums and deductibles.

It is not approved by Congress. It is a pipedream in the weed you're smoking.

So, now we are talking, paying 7% more taxes on working Americans, plus supplemental insurance premiums to cover all the stuff medicare doesn't cover, plus Medicare premiums and deductibles.

What a deal.

You can make all the excuses you want. But the 5K deductible you complain about is the one you chose over having better coverage.

That is the risk you took.

But don't say it is the same or better than having 7% tax increases.

Because 7K tax increase is a constant.

Having a random health problem is not a constant.

People with actual constant health problems will choose better health insurance/more expensive/lower deductible plans because it saves them money in the long term.

SMH.

lol you must be popping hella oxy cuz you're as high as a kite. First, cuz your insurance doesn't drop you for one year, then you're cool. What prescription logic is that? The same prescription logic that made you think Donny was gonna fix your mess.


Also, you can't even compare plans accurately lol. The bill isn't ushering people into the current Medicare plan, it's about changing Medicare to include everyone.

The corporate overlords decided to be a bit generous with the peasant, and now they got her arguing to the death in favor of them.

This is exactly why corporations have all the power, and government has to bribe them in order to get anything done.

I'm drug free, thank you very much, weed boy.

You do understand how much money a 7% tax increase is, don't you?

For the amount of money I make, this is no small amount. Health ins premiums.... way cheaper. By far.

So, I am off that socialist wagon.

I have no corporate overlords.

I am a Goddess in my own Worlds. Thank you very much.

Apparently not in the healthcare world, though.

They decided that she wasn't risky enough to stop insuring, and they'll still take her cash and she's ready to give it to them hand over fist!

Nobody not named Congress(wo)man is God(dess) in the healthcare world.