DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Browns got better when they learned to behave, economically speaking

I am not asking this to throw gasoline on this topic, but I have seen posts before that stated Sashi was hired to gut the team, build draft capital, tank, etc. I know that is what happened, but has there been any statement from the team stating that was why he was hired? Not speculation from anyone, but a statement from the team?

We can disagree, but any plan that almost guarantees that results in the firing of the main principles involved in carrying out the plan is a failure in my world.

The plan was destined to create friction among the FO and coaching staff. It was destined for people to take "sides." You simply cannot endure such epic losing w/out casualties.

Both Sashi and Hue are gone and we are better off because of it.

Those are two mutually exclusive things.

Just because people got fired doesn't mean the plan didn't work. The firings are certainly unintended consequences of the plan but it looks the main goals of the plan came to fruition.

I disagree and I am not changing my mind about it. Have a nice day.

This is not true.

Don't confuse the plan with the owner meddling in the plan. The hiring of Hue led to the friction. Right or wrong, the front office should have gotten their HC choice. You can't argue one way then change your argument to fit an agenda.

No, there hasn't. I'm clearly one of the people on this board that saw, and liked, the decision-making that was taking place (not all, but most) with purging this team of old, over-paid players and adding the necessary draft capital to build this team from the ground up while realizing it was going to suck. Essentially, because (1) it has clearly worked, and (2) we were told this was exactly what would happen and when to see the most significant change...ALL OF IT, including the sucking.

That said, IMO, I don't believe Sashi was just doing what you addressed, which still was a lot in its own right. Meaning, one could make the argument that he should get a pass on certain draft selections like Corey Coleman because he was ONLY doing all of those other things-- I don't believe that. He had to make decisions in the draft when it came to either selecting a player OR trading up/down ("up" especially when we had begun accumulating a ton of draft capital (ex. Njoku)). It wasn't Andrew Berry making that final call to select a player or DePodesta making the final call to make a trade based on value....It was Sashi. Now, I think people here (a select few in particular) want folks to buy this imitation picture or narrative that Sashi was the one leading the player evaluations. I think most level-headed people here understand that Andrew Berry led that effort with this scouts and Sashi had to marry the evaluations/recommendations of those players with the overall long-term game plan that infused analytics (and where analytics was slowly becoming a significant factor in adding additional color to player evaluations) to find where value might exist for the Browns through a trade. So, essentially....what's the best choice?.... Take the player Berry and scouts have rated (with analytics a part of that to whatever degree, meaning more info in 2017 than 2016) or identifying more value through a trade and the package the team has offered? With trades, focusing on increasing the amount of early round draft capital.

So essentially, I think adding "made the final call" with just about everything at it pertained to the football decisions (outside of who played gameday) should also be attached to Sashi. With that comes the good and the bad. Mostly good IMO, but there were also some bad ones as well.

^ The only caveat I would make to my post is with regard to "the final call" point. I'd ammend it to say final call except when Haslem overruled him and others. For example, with Hue > McDermott.

j/c

Sashi did such a great job he was fired. He did so well he no longer has a job in the NFL. He did so well he left us with the worse QB room in the NFL.

We gotta get that guy!

I don't think analytics factored in Hue's inability to develop our QBs. That must have been one of those areas on a resume you use big words to pump up the importance of that skill or experience:

-I worked as a food transition specialist, dealing with biological based, high temperature chemicals, taking a solid state object stored in below freezing status, and over seeing it's transition in to a edible product in a fast paced, high demand environment.

i.e. Fry Cook

Why do you keep saying Sashi was fired (at least in part) because he couldn't find a QB? That would assume finding the QB first was top priority.

Every other year these threads had conversations about finding a QB and building around him VS. building the team and plugging ini the QB.

Based on the tearing down and amassing Picks, I'd say we were focused on building the team first THEN getting our QB, but with the caveat that we'd get grab that Franchise QB along the way if there was ever any consensus on who that was. It doesn't sound like until Baker there was ever a QB that all aspects of the organization agreed on.

I'm not interested in this enough to go digging for things, but I'm 90% certain that there are even quotes from people in the front office over the course of those years that, at the least, allude to this if not outright state it, but in a more publicly palatable wording.

I don't think it was any secret or hidden in any appreciable way that this was the process.

All of that aside, regardless of how one feels about Sashi, we would NOT be in the fantastic shape we are now without what he did. Did he have some stinkers in the Draft? Absolutely, but he also got a few right.

The real, true unsung hero in all of this, I think, is someone that is completely overlooked and is still here in Berea: Paul DePodesta.
He is the REAL analyst and the Chief Strategy Officer - pretty much guaranteed to be the actual architect of all that has happened. From valuing future picks to tearing down, trading, building it up again, etc...

Preach it!

And DePodesta still has a job. Amazing how that works isn't it?

I agree, that was always a plan. It would make no sense to tear down the team and immediately draft Carson Wentz with no team around him. For one, you're just asking to ruin him. Second, a "good" QB would boost your record, and hurt your draft position, when the idea is to make it "difficult to win" for a few years, and increase the value of all that draft capital you are stockpiling.

Probably because he wasn't the one that fell on his sword to break up that terrible AJ McCarron trade.

Sashi died so we could live.

I was thinking more Frankensashi but yours works.

I'm not going to read through a million pages of comments. I only just read the piece and few of the comments.

You're conflating two separate things. The ability to play the draft game of accumulating draft value through trades and the skill of actually making the picks are separate skills. I would contend we've been pretty good at the former and miserable at the latter for the years preceding Dorsey. Being good at the former while being terrible at the latter gets you nowhere. THAT's what the Browns have learned over the last 2 decades. We got lucky that Sashi, someone who was actually excellent at skill 1, perfectly tee'd up Dorsey who is excellent at skill 2. I don't expect that kind of draft 1-2 punch again anytime soon.

j/c:

If only the NFL people who do the hiring were as smart as the geniuses on this board? If they were, Sashi would have a job. Hell, he would be the highest paid exec in football.

Hyperbole much?

The idea of having Sashi AND Dorsey working together is just being greedy IMO.

I agree, but there is a small mob who hates his name, mostly because they don't understand what he does, thus can't understand the value he brings to the team.

I don't think he did that thinking he would die. He did that thinking it was the right thing.


Admit it, it was. Had we signed AJ, this would have been the year we would be looking to replace him mid season and Baker would be playing elsewhere.

You guys need to get a grip on how badly things would be right now had that trade gone through.

Nah. What are you talking about? Hue is a genius. We would've won the super bowl with AJ McCarron. Hue is so good that the Bengals still can't find a replacement for him at DC!

A small mob? LMAO

And here is what you don't get. Sashi sucked so bad no one will ever hire him again on the football side of an NFL team.

Hell, Denver brought in the BB guy to run their analytics department. They bypassed the great Sashi Brown. You guys are delusional and continue to ignore the truth.

And I am going to keep dogging him until the mob stops w/their constant praising of the guy.

Love the sarcasm, but no one is defending Hue Jackson. He's gone. We have moved on to the present. It's only you Sashi lovers who want to keep bringing up two guys that were fired. I'll let it go when you guys let it go.

Preach it!

I really didn't expect any less. I understand your type.

Why are you so fixated on Sashi? I don't keep mentioning Hubert, maybe the worst coach in professional football history.

I never railed for Sashi as you did for Hue. It's like you are obsessed with Hue or something.

Are you brothers? I might have to start talking about Hue again just to counter balance.

Dude, lets just forget both of them.


Why do you do this? Are you self destructive?

What a crock of crap. You've spent the last two regimes begging that Hue and Pettine needed more time. You like the Bengals method of coaching. Continuity for the sake of continuity.

First of all, Judge. A mob is never small.

Secondly, I have stopped defending Hue. He's gone. I have moved on. You can knock him all you like. I do NOT care.

I will gladly move on from Sashi, but there were a series of posts today glorifying Sashi. Those posters refuse to let it go. Thus, it is my right to opine on Sashi if they continue to bring him up. I thought the guy sucked. The NFL apparently agrees, because for all the love this guy gets on here, no one has hired him in a similar role to what he had here in Cleveland.

Think about that great article you posted on here that was written by Seth Wickersham. Instead of focusing on what was important, the same usual suspects turned that thread into a Sashi vs Hue thread. It's beyond pathetic.

Here is the deal........when posters stop glorifying Sashi, I will stop criticizing him. If they want to keep the debate alive, then I will speak my mind. I hope that is okay, Your Honor.

A crock of crap? Perhaps we are misunderstanding one another. I did defend Hue. Hell, I've defended almost all the coaches after the "mob" turned on them.

What I am talking about is that posters trash Hue daily and I don't say boo-peep. I'm talking about NOW! I'm not defending Hue now. He's gone.

Slam Hue all you want. I don't care. But, when people try and glorify Sashi, I am going to give my opinion on him and point to the FACT that no other teams wants him in their football department.

As Diam would say, sometimes it is as easy as 1 + 1 = 2.

Frankly, I wish the refs would just lock this thread, because it has just become a "My failed Browns employee can beat up your failed Browns employee" peeing contest.

It is the same old crap, over and over and over and over and over again.

I agree, but I don't see even one solitary poster defending Hue.

I don't care.

Sashi failed. Hue failed. They both failed. I don't see any need to defend, or promote, either one.

I'm actually in agreement w/that.

Here's the thing. Maybe Sashi failed and maybe Hue was the victim. Or maybe Sashi just failed at what people thought he was supposed to do, not what he was actually doing.

The good Sashi did for this franchise is littered throughout the roster whether some want to recognize it or not... but one has to wonder where is the good that Hue did for the franchise?

Sashi wrote a letter to the city of Cleveland thanking people for the opportunity. Hue told us to get the **** out of his office.

We make the playoffs next year, we can thank Sashi for some of the players we have here whether he was here when we drafted them or he was the one who acquired additional top round picks for someone else to draft them. When it comes to Hue, we just thank him for leaving.

This entire plan was set in motion 3 years ago with Sashi, Berry, and Depodesta. And yes, we are still operating within that plan. Some want to feel bad for Hue, that's fine, but he was obviously the wrong man for the job. He knew what he was getting into and couldn't handle the gig.

Here's the real problem... Sashi and Hue weren't on the same page. Farmer and Pettine weren't on the same page. Holmgren and Mangini weren't on the same page. Blame the owner. You don't win unless everyone is on the same page.

I don't think anyone is calling Sashi the greatest GM or greatest Vice President of football operations in football history, but these are just the facts of the case. I'm not sure how anyone can spin this any different. It's pretty cut and dry. This really has become the movie 12 Angry Men.

Like I said YTown...............some won't let it die.

I am very much a continuity guy , and I was on board with giving Hue the third season to show progress

but what is there left to defend him on after all the truth has come out ? I think Hue is a good coordinator who just handle people well enough to be a HC.. JMO

Okay..............that's fine. He's gone. I don't care.