DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum WR room ... Why exactly is it we need one? ...

About 1/2 way through the year or so when Higgins was hurt and Josh had been traded and Calloway was being inconsistent at best .. he’d flash here and there but not near enough .... we brought in Streeter who was appearantly for ST’s only i guess .. he wasn’t healthy long enough to really find out if he would have had a roll at WR or not ..

It was about that time everyone on the board me included thought this was by far our most glaring weakness and a position that was going to need MAJOR ATTENTION this off season .... completely understandable when you gaze at that picture ... here’s the thing .... its a MUCH DIFFERENT PICTURE today .... much much different ...

Quite frankly i’m not really sure why we NEED one ... obvioulsy if a true stud (very rare .. maybe 5 or 6 of them in the game at a time) ... becomes available at any position u go and grab them a many times as u can ....

While having one would be awesome ... do we “need” one ... i don’t think so ... at least i don’t see WHY for a bunch of reasons .... things changed for the better since the days after we cut Josh and lost Hollywood .... our WR room checks all the boxes as is and is pretty damm good if u ask me .... EPSECIALLY AFTER we re-sign Perriman .. then it does more than just check all the boxes ....

The improvement was 3 fold in the talent department ....

- Hollywood got healthy ... he’s prolly no better than average but he is reliable and he CATCHES THE FOOTBALL .... i’m very fond of that ...

- Calloway IMPROVED immensely as the year went on .... dude hadn’t played football in over a year and it showed .. he was in bad shape and had no clue what he was doing ... BUT HIS TALENT is UNDENIABLE ... dude can ball ... IF he stays straight and don’t mess up off the field we got ourselves a dang good reciever with SPEED TO BURN ....

- Perriman ....WOW ... what a find ... i was dead nuts wrong about him .. never seen someone improve there catching that much .. dude has some good hands ... VERY GOOD HANDS ... he catches with his palms up Fla. .. ...

LOVE THAT KID .... i see no problems in re-signing him ... it works out well for both teams .... real reall well for both sides ....

Thats just what happenend over the last 1/2 or so of last season .... u add the OVERPAID ONE .... ... thats just mind boggling to me that anyone could think that .... WOW ...

Anyhow ... add VICE GRIPS in and then i can’t wait to see what we have in Whillies or whatever his name is .. sorry Mr. Willies is it? ...

With Calloway and Perriman we have the SPEED to take the top off any D and with Vice Grips we have the PLAYMAKER that will be the lead dawg and Hollywood who is the “possession” guy ... and the wildcard in Mr. Willies ...

Then u factor in we have a QB thats going to spread the ball around ... i’m not sure but i bet his distribution is as even as one could get ... and IMO its going to get real “even” next year and will be very game plan dependent ...

Also add in they get and ENTIRE OFF SEASON ... i bet Bake ahs at least two “passing camps” with all the boys together and then OTA’s of witch we get extra ... then theres camp and all that prep time is going to mean HOLY CRAP BATMAN ... what a mess for D’s around the league ...

PLEASE PLEASE tel me what i’m missing and why WR is a “NEED” and not simply sumptin that should be way down our wish list ...

And for those that still aren’t sure I’ll leave with this question ....

- over the last 4 or 5 games of the season ... witch games did the WR’s have a negative impact on and witch ones didn’t one of them step up and make some plays? ... just sayin ....

I think our WR group is darn near perfect. All of our guys bring something a little different, and I like that.

Higgins... I have been one of the few who have always supported Hollywood. He has grown every single year, and has gotten better and better. His route running is top notch, and he has developed more consistent hands. He really reminds me of a poor mans Antonio Brown.

Landry... for as much hate he gets on this board, I guess because of how much he gets paid, I've never bashed him either. I think he serves a role on this team. He's not the fastest, but the man changed the culture in the WR room with his attitude and tenacity, and he has consistent hands, and has made some of the toughest catches in a Browns uniform that I've seen in a very long time.

Callaway... For a rookie, he got some opportunities, and I think his future will be a bright one. He's still learning the game, and still has to get more mentally tough, but I think he is one of those players that you MUST get involved in the game because of this talent, speed, and ability to score a TD at any given point.

Perriman... wasn't expecting him to produce at all. This type of stuff doesn't normally happen for us, for us to get a guy from another team who is under producing, and pretty much sucking it up, to then come to Cleveland and hit the light switch, and things just click. I really liked his production, and hope to see him back next year to play a big role in our offense.

To me, Higgins, Landry, Callaway, and Perriman should be our set 4 WR's.

With that being said, we could always look to add someone else. Iron sharpens iron right? They'd be fighting for the 5th spot against a few guys that I'm very indifferent about. That is Streeter, Wilies, and Ratley. The SEC in me wants to give Ricardo Louis a shot, seeing he was injured last year, but I don't think Dorsey is gonna keep him.

Long story short, we have a good group of guys, that have all developed chemistry with Baker. Keep building upon that.

Great analysis. My only concern is that Higgins, Callaway, and Willies had injuries that kept them out of games, so competent depth is always a concern.
But that's a pretty full receiving corps as is.

The first order of business is to get Higgins and Perriman resigned.

That gives us our top 4 WRs' and also keeps the chemistry and continuity intact.

Personally I prefer Willies over Ratley, but there is probably room for one more, but its not a big need imo.

Last year we NEEDED WR's in the worst way, this year not so much although McClaurin or Metcalf would look good in our rotation

I need to see more from Perriman going forward. He was cut from Balt for a reason.

Yes, he showed great skill, speed, and everything you want to see him, but I need to see if for a more sustained period of time.

I still think if there is a guy sitting there that you feel is a True #1 Wide out, you take him.

Its an offensive league, the final four were all offensive teams. You cannot have enough offense. Lets say we get a stud WR, that moves Jarvis to #2, Perriman to #3, then Calloway higgens willies etc to round out your roster.

Man, Im not gonna be mad about that. lol

Give me points, points, and more points.

It may not seem like a position of need, but we are the spot where we can truly take BPA. So if you go a WR there who you think can stud out, lets goooooooo

i think the talk of us needing a WR badly was when Gordon got axed, and our depth looked REALLY bad. we had Landry, a super raw rookie in calloway, an injured Higgins who wasn't even playing, and then throw in Willis and Ratley.

quite honestly to start the season, it wasn't a good group.

nobody saw Perriman doing a 180 from baltimore though. then higgins got healthy. then calloway slowly started making more progress. and that allowed landry to just ball out the last few weeks.

i wouldn't draft one with a 2nd or even 3rd right now, but i wouldn't be shocked if for whatever reason, Dorsey decided to pull the trigger and make a blockbuster trade for a true #1, moving on from willis and/or ratley.

that would have us with Landry, the WR from the trade, higgins, and perriman as our 4.

on the flip side, i could see us adding a special teams WR, and keeping our group the way it is, because Njoku woke up this season. i also think we can possibly avoid getting a WR if we just played duke in the slot more, use him like Carolina does Curtis Samuel.

where's Calloway?

I have wanted sets with Duke in the slot, Chubb in backfield, , both at same time. But Njoku really helps that set, and a Perriman is a great plus added on. We can still see need for BPa at WR. Especially if Dorsey gets one spotted for a bargain. Looks better with Baker.

my bad. yea with calloway that would leave us with 5. that would be super deep right there.

for sure, but i wonder what kitchens is telling Dorsey about the WR group.

he might be telling him that they're good to go, as far as trade/FA goes. maybe dorsey would rather use our resources mainly on the defensive end.

I agree with your overall premise. Surprised?

There are far more pressing needs on the team at the moment. We may add to the WR group, but I don't know that we need to go out and spend millions on a guy like Randall Cobb.

You forgot Louis in your analysis.... He is still under contract. But let's face it, we have Higgins, Landry, Perriman, Callaway, Louis, Ratley, and Willies...and maybe Streater if you want to add him and not all of these fellas will return for 2019.

I don't see a #1 WR in the lot, maybe Perriman can live up to his draft status, we'll see.

It would be criminal to allow Higgins to walk, he was probably our best and most consistent WR. I'd rather keep Higgins over Perriman. I fully expect him to return and we need to target him more.

Callaway had his moments and I think he can improve on his 2018 campaign.

Landry was underwhelming. I can't see us cutting ties with him this year. Higgins would be a much better value player here as we could seek out more of a deep threat for Baker.

Perriman is a wait and see for me. As are Willies, Louis, and Ratley.

We will most likely draft or sign one and one or more of these guys won't be here next season, but I think our WR are quite serviceable as is. I think we may roll the dice here and could see changes for 2020 if they don't work out. However, we seem to be in win now mode, so anything is possible with KJ.

I am not satisfied with this group. I think Perrimaan, Higgins and Willies are all borderline scrap heap players. Callaway needs to improve and we need to add someone like Tyrelle Williams. Our good WR’s are short and our tall WR’s aren’t good.

Landry, Perriman, Calloway make a pretty good trio.

Add in Njuko and that's impressive (he's going to get better)

Then throw in Johnson and Chubb, That's a pretty good group all together..

We don't really know what we have in Willies.. Too small a sampling and I doubt Streeter will be here next season.

So if I was to say anything, I'd say depth is what we need, not a stud. (hey, if you find one, great)

I wanna win the whole thing. I want a SB.

Name me a WR on our staff, that would be a number 1 option to LA, NE, Saints, or KC. . . . .

We need stud. Jarvis is good, but I would take Edelman, Thomas, hill, or cooks over him imo. AC needs more time - and needs to get through the offseason trouble free. Perriman, I need to see more.

We need a #1 stud.

Good topic, Diam.

I was very impressed with the progress of the WRs (and Njoku) over the last half of the season.

In my mind, right now we lack a true #1 receiver. One that can take the top off the defense, one that needs game planned for by the D. I know not every team has one, I am being greedy.

There are some who may say that Calloway can be one, or maybe even Perriman. Maybe, maybe not. I need to see more of them to be sure.

I see us having multiple #2 and #3 guys (Perriman, Calloway, Higgins) and a really good slot WR (Landry).

I don't really see WR as a need. I would like to see a dimension added we currently lack. But that's more of a luxury than a need.

We have WR's with some size but not the large, physical prowess type possession WR that works so well in the red zone. Some will argue that you can use a TE for the exact same thing. And while I imagine that's true to an extent, it's just another weapon for the red zone and something we currently lack.

As I said, I don't see it as a need but more of a luxury and I certainly wouldn't spend a high investment to address it.

The group is probably the best no-name WR corps in the NFL. I don't know that we go after one in FA, but drafting one would be likely in later rounds, IMO, depending on who falls to us when we pick. Maybe a big guy like Sills or Humphrey in the 4th, or maybe we get lucky and a burner like Campbell falls to us in the 3rd. We have the need of beefing up our D but the luxury of taking BPA in the later rounds so we could end up augmenting our offense with a WR, RB and/or TE.

You're not missing anything.

We don't need one.

Sure, you are always looking to get better but we aren't in a position where we have to sign or draft somebody for the position. We have good receivers who can still grown in the position.

Both Willies and Ratley showed some promise before be knocked out. We do need to sign Perriman and Higgins. At least one of them. If we don't, then we will need one.

We don't have a hole at the position. Needing one means you don't have someone to play. Plus, Baker makes all of these guys look better.

If we can get a true number one, a player like Julio Jones, OBJ, Michael Thomas, etc., then we should get that player. It doesn’t look like any players of that caliber will be available. We would be fine to bring everyone back with an additional player from the draft.

I was going to mention Tyrell Williams. He's one that sticks out to me and perhaps one of the few young FA WR I would consider.

Other than Randall Cobb (which I am not a fan of looking into for us), there really is not a big name WR that's going to be a FA that I know off.

I don't think there is a single 1000 yard receiver FA.

Edelman would only be a slight upgrade over Landry. I don't think Edelman is a #1 and I don't think he'd add any new dimension here.

I don't think NE has a true #1 either... Gronk isn't even as he once was... They look like a tired broken down WR group. Their best receiver may be James White. If I'm the Patriots I resign Dorsett.

Moss and maybe Welker may be the only #1 receivers Brady ever had. I think something similar is ok here... I don't think Baker needs a true #1 to reach the super bowl, but it surely wouldn't hurt.


I think Perriman, Higgins or Callaway may have looked outstanding in NE with Brady. I think the group can look good with Baker as well... I'd be more concerned about making sure I protect Baker.

Looking through the list...

Golden Tate
John Brown
Brandon LaFell
Mike Wallace
Michael Floyd
Kelvin Benjamin



These are just some of the FAs that have hit the 1000 yd mark... There may be others.

Edelman is by far better than Landry - hes just older IMO

But lets see, big time catches, Edelman makes 2-3 a game when it counts.

Jarvis makes big catches yes, but also seems to drop a wide open TD that would have won a game.

Physically, Edelman is not a #1, but lets look at what he does without a true #1 and lets look at how we make excuses for Jarvis because he doesn't have a #1.......that should tell you something.

We protect baker just fine - we had what like 3,4, 5 sacks since Freddie took over. he was protected enough to throw for the rookie td record. Im not worried about the line, at all. We can upgrade at RT, probably C, but they are both not our biggest concerns.

The reason guys like Pitts always seems to find WR in the draft, or Atl always has guys like Gabriel stud out when they get there, or ridley catch fire, is because they have #1 that allow them to get single coverage all the time. With a true #1 on this team, Jarvis, and Calloway have 1000 yards each.

Interesting notion. Our picks in first two to three rounds will need to fill real holes, or use limited FA gets. But this is interesting, wondering what our HC feels we need. This off-season should tell us a bunch. I am thinking defense rusher/stuffer and OL. And LB s what tackle better. Dorsey will be big game hunting for a few great guys IMO.

Sorry. Wasn't insinuating the Oline was bad, just saying I would look to keep that unit the best on the team rather than try to upgrade the WR. A healthy Baker can find the open receiver regardless who it is... But I admit it is nice to have that big WR who will go up and get any pass you throw his way. I felt this was Pryor's biggest asset as WR... I think he's a FA also.

Pryor was a fluke year, no thanks.

Gotcha, I read that like the Ol was bad - no worries.

I am just saying - WR to me is the only position on Offense where we do not have a standout player.

QB, RB, I still think Njoku is going to make another leap next year, Oline Joel and Zietler, Robinson played outstanding IMO.

The only places I think we really can use a upgrade is WR, DL, LB and #2 Corner. The rest we should just be building depth at IMO - unless some freak of nature prospect falls to us, then I say we target those positions.

I don't want to take a WR just to take one, if there the FO deems a guy a stud - by all means grab him up. If not, our current staff is serviceable.

BPA - but I still think a #1 will take this offense to places we have never seen.

I suspect that those hoping for a 1st round WR are going to be very disappointed.

We got our QB last year. From his history we can see that Dorsey takes OL, DL, QB, and DB in the 1st round. He likes to get WR in the latter rounds, and he seems to be good at getting WR and TE in the mid rounds.

Let's look at his record:

2013 3rd round: TE Kelse

2015 3rd round: Chris Conley

2016 4th round: Demarcus Robinson

2016 5th round: Tyreek Hill

They are all contributors, and Hill is a star.

This year the team added 2 veterans in Watkins and Benjamin.



As far as Landry, as he was brought up as being some kind of disappointment, he had the same type of year he has had in the past, except that he has a higher yards/catch than in all but one. His TD catches are down. That's not unexpected with a QB like Baker, who spreads the ball around, especially in the red zone. Baker looks for the open man, and the best option. That means that no one player will dominate in the red zone. That's really what's best for a team.

This has been my point with Landry from the beginning. I'd say he was actually not as good as his previous 4 seasons... His production doesn't warrant the type of contract we gave him. He wasn't going to become something special here, he is who he's always been...

It sounds like you want Sashi back.

Your right, baker looks for the open man, soooo to me that means Jarvis is not getting open, huh?

We have not one but two when we re-sign Perriman that can take the top off the D ... Calloway and Perriman are take the top off D’s kinda guys ...

We got that box checked bro ...



What more do u need to see .. were not splitting atoms here ... they run fast and can catch ... BOX CHECKED ...



Vice Grips is a slot reciever in your eyes ...

Applications are now being taken for a bartender/manager at Paradise Island .... ..

BLASPHEMY BRO ... *L* ...

We check al the boxes bro .. i think we have an ABOVE AVERAGE WR ROOM when we re-sign Hollywood and Perriman .. and i see NO PROBLEM accomplishing that ... it’s a win/win for us and the players ...

It also seem to me that Jarvis has been doubled more than anyone else, especially early on.

Cool, pretty much every team has a WR that gets doubled - yet they still get open, right?

Heres my point, and Im not trying to bash on Jarvis. I love his fire more than anything else he brings if you ask me, my point is - you can say "baker throws to the open man that's why Jarvis numbers are down" and expect that to not mean Jarvis was not open as much as he should be.

And many on this board have stated Jarvis needs a true #1 to take away the pressure off him right?

Well those same ones are saying we don't need a #1. You cant have the argument both ways.

Right now, you are saying Jarvis is seeing the double team because hes playing #1 and is not a #1, but then also saying we don't need a #1......then why was Jarvis playing #1?

I don't think we overpaid for Jarvis, I love Jarvis on this team, but we need a #1 - Jarvis and this team as a whole will benefit greatly from it.

I don't think Jarvis is doubled nearly as much as people think...

I like our WR corps. I feel like everybody got better as the season progressed. Landry is a go-to WR with many targets and catches. Higgins is turning into something special, great hands and runs like a deer. Perriman will go up and use his body to shield defenders and make tough catches, at least he has here in Cleveland. Njoku's hands improved immensely as the season went on. Calloway should continue to improve and will burn you deep when given the opportunity.

I'm not sure you need that dominate #1 WR when you have a QB that throws you open and is accurate in tight windows. Add Baker's ability to spread the ball around and Kitchens' rhythm and mix in the play calling dept, and the need for a #1 (in the pure sense of the term) is negated even more. I'm good with what we have unless there is a FA or trade in which we don't overpay, or a solid WR that compliments what we have in the draft.

Ten weeks ago I was all over N'keal Harry as that top flight #1 guy, I don't feel like we can spend a 1st round on a WR with two glaring holes on defense. For WR, as of late I'm really intrigued by Andy Isabella because of the way he could compliment what we already have, including being a dangerous piece out of the backfield in the two RB, RPO type sets. He'll go in the 3rd unless something crazy happens, we have two picks in the 3rd to target him. Adding world class speed and a YAC machine to the mix could make this offense really special without bringing in somebody who would overshadow the "WR room".

I think we saw Jarvis double teams a lot after Willies went to IR and during Higgins' injury. That just happened to be during the biggest part of Baker's learning curve as well. Once Higgins returned, it made no sense to try to take away Jarvis, by then Baker was really spreading the ball well and would just beat you elsewhere.

That's what people call an absolute, but it would not always be accurate. Just because Baker saw someone open and threw their direction, does not mean he was the only open option.