DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns trade Kevin Zeitler for Olivier Vernon

hubba hubba

That's a 330lb LT he pops off balance.

Impressive.

Kevin was a damn good guard but I’m looking at this pragmatically. He’s 29 years old. Our center is a top 10 center, and 28. We have a bit of a need at RT but the guy we’ve got holding the fort is a 27 year old. Now is the time to put some youth in between them. Corbett is 23. I’d rather he get a year of starting in between two vets then maybe replace our RT next year with this year’s draft pick at the position. Assuming we take one in the draft. This gives Corbett some time between two vets.
We gained a 28 year old pass rusher with known NFL level skills. Cycling out players has to happen. The timing of such moves is hugely important. Allowing rookies and second year guys to work next to vets is key. Especially on the O line where communication and on the field leadership and direction is so important.
As much as I hate to see KZ go, I think Dorsey got it right...as long as he got the Corbett pick right last year.

New York, Cleveland both winners in Olivier Vernon, Kevin Zeitler trade

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-giants-browns-both-win-in-blockbuster-vernon-zeitler-trade


The Cleveland Browns and New York Giants agreed to terms of a megadeal on Friday ahead of the expected free agency blitz next week as the Giants agreed to ship edge defender Olivier Vernon to the Browns for guard Kevin Zeitler. The teams will also swap Day 3 draft picks as New York will receive Cleveland’s fifth-round pick (155 overall) in exchange for New York’s fourth-round selection (132 overall), per Ian Rapoport and Mike Garafolo.

Vernon heads to Cleveland fresh on the heels of a career year in overall grade while Zeitler was a key component in the late-year success for Baker Mayfield last season.



With the dichotomous nature of football, there is a winner and a loser, and while people want to apply that same logic to trades around the league, the fact of the matter is both the Giants and the Browns won today’s trade.

When Olivier Vernon inked a 5-year, $85 million deal back in 2016, he was never going to live up to the expectations that deal set. Vernon is simply not the type of pass rusher that racks up big sack numbers. That doesn’t mean, however, that the edge rusher was a bad player or even not worth the money in New York; Vernon’s 192 pressures over the last three seasons were the 16th most in the NFL. That’s despite missing a handful of games over that span with injury. Yes, it came on a top-dollar contract, but that’s top-notch production. Amid a rebuild though, the Giants had no reason to keep doling out top-dollar on a team that’s a few years away from competing.

For the Browns, this was a no-brainer. Emmanuel Ogbah racked up a measly 31 pressures across from Myles Garrett last season – 15 of which were either unblocked or deemed a cleanup. On the other hand, Vernon had 46 on 82 fewer pass-rushing snaps.

It comes with very little cost to the Browns with 2018 second round pick Austin Corbett waiting in the wings. It’s great to have a competent backup, but any difference between Corbett and Kevin Zeitler at guard is likely nowhere near the difference between Ogbah and Vernon.



The same can’t be said about the difference between whatever the Giants were planning on throwing out at right guard compared to Zeitler. Patrick Omameh and Jamon Brown combined to allow 39 pressures in only 14 games last year. Zeitler, on the other hand, allowed all of 11 pressures all season long, and he owned the highest pass-blocking grade of any offensive lineman in the NFL. Every single quarterback in recent years who has hit the ground running when entering the NFL has done so behind a solid offensive line. This goes a long way towards giving New York just that for whenever they decide to find Eli Manning’s potential replacement.

It’s not often that a trade makes so much sense for both sides, but there’s really no downside here for either team. Yes, the Giants’ pass rush takes a hit and the Browns’ offensive line will likely as well. But with the direction of both franchises are heading, the future outlook of both has greatly improved.

It is all contingent on Corbett.

It wasn't meant as hyperbole. I actually didn't realize Ogbah was as putrid as he was. I thought he was More of a 7 sack guy which is what I see Vernon as.

I think the way the draft is setting up contributed to the trade. Sweat isn't lasting to 17 any more, it doesn't look like. The good pass rushers are probably going top 10. If we wanted a difference maker opposite MG, we were likely going to have to get creative.

I'm waiting to see Joe Thomas' thoughts on the trade.

GC
I don't yet have confidence in Austin Corbett or Chad Thomas, I don't care "where" they were drafted, they have to do it in games, and games in the NFL.

You can put salt on a bologna sandwich, you can put mustard, lettuce, you can even fry the bologna, but it doesn't make it a pizza,

it's still a baloney sandwich.

j/c

Since everyone is so enamored with PFF, all of the naysayers may wish to consider that Vernon was ranked 70th in the top players in 2019 by PFF.



New York, Cleveland both winners in Olivier Vernon, Kevin Zeitler trade

The Cleveland Browns and New York Giants agreed to terms of a megadeal on Friday ahead of the expected free agency blitz next week as the Giants agreed to ship edge defender Olivier Vernon to the Browns for guard Kevin Zeitler. The teams will also swap Day 3 draft picks as New York will receive Cleveland’s fifth-round pick (155 overall) in exchange for New York’s fourth-round selection (132 overall), per Ian Rapoport and Mike Garafolo.

Vernon heads to Cleveland fresh on the heels of a career year in overall grade while Zeitler was a key component in the late-year success for Baker Mayfield last season.

With the dichotomous nature of football, there is a winner and a loser, and while people want to apply that same logic to trades around the league, the fact of the matter is both the Giants and the Browns won today’s trade.

When Olivier Vernon inked a 5-year, $85 million deal back in 2016, he was never going to live up to the expectations that deal set. Vernon is simply not the type of pass rusher that racks up big sack numbers. That doesn’t mean, however, that the edge rusher was a bad player or even not worth the money in New York; Vernon’s 192 pressures over the last three seasons were the 16th most in the NFL. That’s despite missing a handful of games over that span with injury. Yes, it came on a top-dollar contract, but that’s top-notch production. Amid a rebuild though, the Giants had no reason to keep doling out top-dollar on a team that’s a few years away from competing.

For the Browns, this was a no-brainer. Emmanuel Ogbah racked up a measly 31 pressures across from Myles Garrett last season – 15 of which were either unblocked or deemed a cleanup. On the other hand, Vernon had 46 on 82 fewer pass-rushing snaps.

It comes with very little cost to the Browns with 2018 second round pick Austin Corbett waiting in the wings. It’s great to have a competent backup, but any difference between Corbett and Kevin Zeitler at guard is likely nowhere near the difference between Ogbah and Vernon.

The same can’t be said about the difference between whatever the Giants were planning on throwing out at right guard compared to Zeitler. Patrick Omameh and Jamon Brown combined to allow 39 pressures in only 14 games last year. Zeitler, on the other hand, allowed all of 11 pressures all season long, and he owned the highest pass-blocking grade of any offensive lineman in the NFL. Every single quarterback in recent years who has hit the ground running when entering the NFL has done so behind a solid offensive line. This goes a long way towards giving New York just that for whenever they decide to find Eli Manning’s potential replacement.

It’s not often that a trade makes so much sense for both sides, but there’s really no downside here for either team. Yes, the Giants’ pass rush takes a hit and the Browns’ offensive line will likely as well. But with the direction of both franchises are heading, the future outlook of both has greatly improved.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-giants-browns-both-win-in-blockbuster-vernon-zeitler-trade

We've watched the transformation Dorsey has added to our roster. We've seen the roster improve in several positions from a talent standpoint. We've seen what the talent he drafted in K.City has done to make them one of the top teams in the AFC.

There's a difference between blind loyalty and willful ignorance.

I’m not dragging cfrs through the mud cause your acting like a 2 year old ...he don’t deserve it ... u, on the other hand ...

Did u enjoy Sashi’s Podcast .... *L* ...

I have to think we might be all in on either Oliver or Wilkins or some other DT in the draft now...

"Surely you can't be serious."

" I'm always serious, and stop calling me Shirley."

We're all blindly trusting the Browns. If someone has been skeptically trusting the Browns, then what more do the Browns need to do to lose them? At the end of the day, we're the all seeing all knowing crap of the world. No one is going to be running plans by us. We just have to accept reality, blindly. What else can we possibly do?

What I meant is that we are allowed to criticize John Dorsey.

We have evidence. If you can't see it don't blame us.

Dorsey's track record is pretty good ...

Pretty good and perfect are not the same thing.

No human being is perfect. But there's nothing about this trade to indicate that it's a bad deal.

Yeah, I didn't mean you specifically. I've just seen this idea year after year, regime after regime, that we have to trust the team, because they know what they're doing. It's just an outrageous comment to me and I've said as much in the past. No we don't have to blindly trust the team because we think that they think that they know what they're doing, but we do have to blindly trust the team, because there is no other option.

Its an “interesting” trade ....

We obviously just upgraded the pass rush in a major way ... question is how much damage did we do to protecting our own ....

Definetly a trade off ....

Vernon will see a lot less double teams and/or chips this year ....

KJ hasn’t dissapointed us yet ... let’s hope this one works out as well ...

Go get um Austin ...

There was also evidence that Holmgren was a coasting moron, that Schurmur was a battling failnephew, that Haslam was an egotistical failson, plenty of evidence that they would all and many others would doom the Franchise. And I was extremely critical of all of them. But at the end of the day, I had to blindly follow them. Not because of their track record, their personalities or their turn of phrases, but because I am a Browns fan and I can do nothing else but blindly follow them. King John, as he is known, will get my same blind trust, not because he has a good track record, but because he is the GM of the Browns and that is all I can do; trust him blindly or stop being a fan of the team. That's not to say that I won't criticize him, because that's not true, I will criticize him, but my hollow words are all I can provide. I have to trust this trade because there are no alternatives to not trusting this trade. I cannot reverse the trade. I cannot threaten Goodell's family so Goodell will be forced to block the trade. I cannot do anything, but blindly trust.

I feel better about this than trading a gazillon players and draft picks for a WR. Sure, OBJ is a top 3 WR, but that price tag seemed too high. Even when I stop to consider Mayfield/Chubb/Hunt/OBJ/Landry/Callaway/Higgins/Njoku.

Regarding this deal...I wonder how much of it is: Zeitler was Sashi's big spend and Corbett is Dorsey's guy. It is a gamble, but still...Dorsey took the kid at 33 and we need to see what he is capable of. Could be the steal in the draft or, it could be Dorsey's biggest mistake since arriving in CLE. We shall see.

I suspect we keep Tretter for the time being as he came from GB so Dorsey knows him better than anybody. In fact, did Dorsey scout or draft him?

This dude's leg drive really pops off the screen.

We just got a monster, folks.

No one is perfect and no one ever will be we all make mistakes, I'm just saying Dorsey is on a different level than any GM we have had around here in many years ...

I think it would be safe to say "ever" instead of "in many years".

The more i think about it ... it was a win/win ...

We clearly upgraded our pass rush bigtime ... we needed that very badly ...

The gnats O-line was horrible ... Zietler clearly helps but they still have more work to do on it as we do our DL ... now we need a DT that can stop the run ...

As u pointed out ... we didn’t lose any draft capitol and actually have a better pick to move up in rnd 1 if we need it to make that move fro 17 to 9 or 10 ...

UNEXPECTED but FUN ...

GO Austin ...

Dorsey is the Football Whisperer.

I'm curious what Garrett's ranking is. Do we now have 2 of the top 7 edge rushers in the league?

And bro ... Vernon’s gotta be THRILLED ...

Less double teams/chips ... and on a team that should be playing with the lead a lot more than the gnats last year .....

his sack #’s should explode ...

Dorsey knew that Chubb was better than Hyde.

Dorsey knew that the team of Jackson/Haley needed to leave the building.

Dorsey knows that Corbett can replace KZ. Unless he wants to pick an OL at 17.

When will you peeps realize this man knows what he is doing??

What's a Dorsey?

A lot more than you!

Thanks! But I mean the "Pass-Rush Grade". I think that's overall.

For me personally, I'm not upset with the trade. I don't like to see good players go, but I'm not upset. Our Oline took a hit, but the trade off might pay off. We have a long ways to go before September.


My 25-1 odds are looking better and better.

IMO it's a deal that makes sense for both teams. Quality for quality although I believe we did a little better. I trust that JD knows what he is doing. If he feels Corbett is ready then he is. JD and the staff know more about this than we do. Besides, I'm sure MR. Dorsey is not finished with his moves. He may have someone else in mind for RG.