This thing has been hanging over America like the sword of Damocles.
I want to know the full extent of Russian influence in our 2016 election. If we don't get this figured out, we risk further meddling and interference.
I had no problem with letting this investigation play out. Money well-spent, imo.
Now, we'll see where this all takes us. End of the beginning.
.02
I don't think their interference was as effective as people are presuming it to be.
-There's no indication that voting machines were hacked and votes changed.
Past that, what's there really to prove? Maybe campaign money? But I don't think any candidate's campaign is clean of that.. the Clintons received millions of Chinese money.
How influential their social media game was? There's no real way to prove something like that. On top of that, I heard that the amount of content created by the Russian "bots" was a drop in the bucket compared to the election content created domestically.
For anyone interested Joe Rogan interviewed this lady who talks about the Russian social media game. I didn't get to listen to the whole thing, but it sounds like the infrastructure for such efforts were in place prior to the election cycle.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things." -Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
You are strong in your positions but maintain enough... skepticism... that you don't put all your eggs in one basket. Plus you aren't one to willingly sacrifice the future for the present. Your glasses are clear enough to see how damaged the system is/can be. Others can't see it or simply don't care.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things." -Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
Here's the bottom line. The GOP now has their Hillary. His name is Donald Trump. Both had plenty of evidence of guilt, but in both cases the only problem was finding intent. That's a very high bar to reach. But let's be clear here, it was Trump's appointed AG that has come to this conclusion on Trump....
Quote:
Barr, Trump's appointee, suggested the call was not a difficult one.
For one thing, he said in the letter, there was no evidence of the underlying crime of conspiracy, and "the absence of such evidence bears upon the president's intent with respect to obstruction."
He said Mueller didn't identify actions that in Barr's judgment were done with corrupt intent. That corrupt intent, Barr said, is required "under the Department’s principles of federal prosecution guiding charging decisions, would need to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to establish an obstruction-of-justice offense."
Of course, one way to investigate a defendant's intent is to interview him. Mueller did not interview Trump, and the reason that never happened was not covered in Barr's letter.
So the exact same technicality the GOP whines so much about in regards to Hillary is precisely the same technicality that is excluding Trump from prosecution.
Quote:
The reason that the FBI did not recommend felony prosecution, however, is that investigators never found “a smoking gun,” Comey says. They lacked an email or other record that established criminal intent – perhaps a warning to Clinton that she shouldn’t use a private server or any “indication of her obstructing justice.” Absent such a damning piece of evidence, there was no precedent to prosecute.
So you now have elected a president that is using the exact same legal precedent to escape prosecution that managed to help Hillary Clinton escape prosecution.
So the GOP now has their Hillary Clinton. His name is Donald Trump.
Will you be screaming "Lock him up!"? I didn't think so.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Keep stretching.. they are no where near the same. Reference my earlier post about Lisa Page's testimony.. the FBI had several conversations with the DOJ about charging Hillary with Gross Negligence because there was plenty of evidence of that. The DOJ kept stonewalling them. Hillary was not charged due to a technicality.
Anyone with legal knowledge fully expected Hillary to be indicted was they listened to Comey's testimony, even liberals.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things." -Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
Keep stretching.. they are no where near the same. Reference my earlier post about Lisa Page's testimony.. the FBI had several conversations with the DOJ about charging Hillary with Gross Negligence because there was plenty of evidence of that. The DOJ kept stonewalling them. Hillary was not charged due to a technicality.
Anyone with legal knowledge fully expected Hillary to be indicted was they listened to Comey's testimony, even liberals.
Why make things up?
Everyone expected Trump to get charged with obstruction too. I mean he told Lester Holt in a TV interview he fired Comey over Russia.
But the same standard got them both off.
Lack of intent.
Hell, the GOP AG said it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Here it is, I'll stop after this one. This was the single most obnoxious piece of political rhetoric I may have ever seen. The men in this video, I just cannot.
Its PROVEN that 0 Collusion with Russian happened between trump and the campaign. Keep arguing against the BLATENT facts. its making you look smarter by the second...
So nobody on the right wants to address that he got off from being charged with obstruction on the same technicality that got Hillary off the hook!
I didn't think so.
Hillary wasn't charged because of a technicality. That's why no one is talking about it.
Could I interest you in a Tin Man and a Cowardly Lion to go with your Strawman?
You need to take that up with Trump's self appointed AG, Anthony Barr. He's the one who said Trump couldn't be charged because of intent, not me. Yet you claim I'm the one with the straw man argument?
I quoted exactly what he said above.
You see, I don't have a problem with his conclusion. You must show intent. The same bar that was set for Hillary. In both cases the same conclusion was reached. In both cases intent couldn't be shown. That's the law.
But I'm not the one making excuses, rationalizations and spinning to deny that.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Its PROVEN that 0 Collusion with Russian happened between trump and the campaign. Keep arguing against the BLATENT facts. its making you look smarter by the second...
Nope, what's been proven is that the didn't find it,, I'm positive it's there.
While I trust Mueller, I do not trust the interpretation from Barr... Not even a little, he already said he's was against the mueller investigation.... he made that clear, why the hell do you think he got the AG job in the first place?
Last edited by Damanshot; 03/25/1909:39 AM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Its PROVEN that 0 Collusion with Russian happened between trump and the campaign. Keep arguing against the BLATENT facts. its making you look smarter by the second...
Nope, what's been proven is that the didn't find it,, I'm positive it's there.
Im sorry, hold on a second. My nose is burning from the coffee that just spit out from it.
So, a guy that you and left has been calling one of the most decorated investigators on earth, and calling for Mueller time, etc. who armed with absolutely unlimited funds and staff of a team of investigators (largely democrat), have stated after 2 YEARS of investigating, there was 0 collusion between trump and his campaign, and yet you are certain there was.
Its PROVEN that 0 Collusion with Russian happened between trump and the campaign. Keep arguing against the BLATENT facts. its making you look smarter by the second...
Nope, what's been proven is that the didn't find it,, I'm positive it's there.
While I trust Mueller, I do not trust the interpretation from Barr... Not even a little, he already said he's was against the mueller investigation.... he made that clear, why the hell do you think he got the AG job in the first place?
Please, do tell us with your vast investigating skills, what evidence you have, and why this MASSIVE BOMBSHELL of facts you sit on, are not out there! Please, save us all with your knowledge!
I find it hilarious that the Trumpian puppets come on here over the fact they got news that Mueller won't be bringing more indictments. Sure that's a small silver lining, but when you look at all the investigations and suits pending against this administration, not to mention we have NO DETAILS on Mueller's actual findings... as usual GOPers don't know crap but think they do.
IF, big if, Trump is cleared of conspiracy to collude with Russia during the 2016 election; then somebody needs to explain/prove why the hell he acts the way he does with Putin. It's obvious to everyone that he is somehow influenced in that relationship, why?
You act like HE was the one that brought out a big red "Reset" button or said he could do more with the Russians after he was re-elected.
i hope my conservatives friends dont forget one thing:
mueller also stated that the russians absolutely hacked the dnc, moved the documents to outlets like wikileaks, in order to swing the election.
lets not forget that. this is absolutely significant. and it also doesn't excuse Trump being weak when it comes to putin, as that display in Helsinki was still, and always will be an absolute embarrassment.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
"While this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him,'" ...
And I heard a pretty decent definition of this last night where someone said that there was public statements of obstruction and some behind the scenes stuff also, but Mueller almost made it seem that he would not make the final decision to criminally indict a sitting president-it was Barr to make that choice with Rosenstein. But the bar for criminal indictment of a sitting president is extremely high-I assume that if the house committees see the complete report-they still may pursue other avenues if there is something there
Never seen so many people upset that the President didn’t commit treason. The backpedaling, the “Well we need to see the FULLL report” when had the summary went there way would not have cared a single iota about the report. The MSM spun a conspiracy theory as fact about the President of the United States for over 2 years.
The whole “well look at how many indictments” is fine and dandy and we should root out illegal activity. That was not the purpose of this investigation and soap boxing on it is a deflection. I respect men (and women) who can admit when they are wrong. There is no honor in digressing, there is no honor in what about’s. The report is out, Trump is not a Russian spy or owned by the Russians or even colluded with the Russians to steal an election like so many of you (and MSM) have stated as fact for years now.
This does not make Trump a good man, it does not negate his shenanigans, his questionable campaign finances, his adultery, his rhetoric. It simply absolved him of not committing Treason. Not really sure why anyone would want to double down on that, it’s over. No Collusion, he isn’t a Russian puppet…..get over it, you were either wrong or deceived, it happens but doubling down on it make you a hack, a partisan hack.
The Mueller report was the be all end all for Dems. Just like the election, the MSM stacked the odds (inaccurately) against Trump and lost yes again. So it’s not surprising that they are outraged. It is however time to put collusion to rest.
Drip drip drip
I can agree with this statement. I would still like to see the facts behind this to see if what was found just did not meet the level of proof needed, or there was indeed no actions taken at all to conspire/collude. I also want to see congress address the obstruction. I can't fathom how Trump didn't obstruct justice unless again, it just did not meet the criteria for a chargeable offense.
It's not that I'm unwilling to accept the findings because you on the right are correct that it's been two years of information that in total painted a picture of us having a traitor in the white house. The meetings, the way Trump acts toward Putin and other dictators, the way he treats our allies, Trump's Russia if you are listening statement, Trump's interview after firing Comey... and many many more things all made him look guilty.
And let's not forget his constant attack on our institutions, his 'No Collusion" campaign, his and his aides constant changing stories on almost everything they were investigated in... BUT most importantly how easily he lies about almost everything. The sum total of these things make you think he has to be guilty.
So don't bash the left for wanting to see the facts behind the findings to judge for themselves. Donald Trump and company have acted like scumbag sleazeballs since day one and are either too stupid to hide it or just don't care.
You are strong in your positions but maintain enough... skepticism... that you don't put all your eggs in one basket. Plus you aren't one to willingly sacrifice the future for the present. Your glasses are clear enough to see how damaged the system is/can be. Others can't see it or simply don't care.
I don't see how the left wanting to know exactly what happened and who did what is not letting it go. Barr is a Trump nominee appointed to the AG position because Trump was furious at Sessions for recusing himself and 'not protecting Trump'! So forgive me if I want people I trust to review the facts or I want to see them for myself before I say he's exonerated or anything.
How many GOPers still think Hillary should get locked up? GMAB
"While this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him,'" ...
And I heard a pretty decent definition of this last night where someone said that there was public statements of obstruction and some behind the scenes stuff also, but Mueller almost made it seem that he would not make the final decision to criminally indict a sitting president-it was Barr to make that choice with Rosenstein. But the bar for criminal indictment of a sitting president is extremely high-I assume that if the house committees see the complete report-they still may pursue other avenues if there is something there
The trickiest part to all of it is a matter of intent. It is pretty common theme brought out in most political charges. It's actually been the focus of most of my posts on this thread.
That bar is extremely high and works for both sides of the political aisle.
You see, that is at the point where you are really no longer questioning whether someone committed acts that can clearly be seen as criminal in and of themselves. But at this juncture you have to provide conclusive evidence that these acts were committed with the intent to carry out that criminal activity.
As long as this applies to both sides in an even fashion then I don't believe anyone has the right to call foul. It's the way these laws are set up and is the course any investigation must follow. It in no way proves people aren't guilty of doing terrible things. It doesn't mean that if intent was taken out of the equation they wouldn't be guilty. It just sets the bar above the acts themselves and raises it the intent of those acts.
The funniest part in all of this is that both Hillary Clinton and Trump didn't face charges based on intent. The Republican AG that Trump himself appointed, Anthony Barr said exactly that. The same thing that was said as to why Hillary didn't face charges.
But here's what most of them get out of that.
Hillary BAD! Trump GOOD!
You can't make this stuff up!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
i hope my conservatives friends dont forget one thing:
mueller also stated that the russians absolutely hacked the dnc, moved the documents to outlets like wikileaks, in order to swing the election.
lets not forget that. this is absolutely significant. and it also doesn't excuse Trump being weak when it comes to putin, as that display in Helsinki was still, and always will be an absolute embarrassment.
Is like to know how he came to that conclusion, as the dnc refused to release their servers to the fbi for inspection.
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