Using the Pats is a terrible example. They have a QB married to a woman worth 180 million dollars. He is happily taking less than most QBs, that is an anomaly.
The Rams and Seahawks in recent memory are a more apt description of where the Browns are. Worrying about the cap is useless as a fan, I could not care less about the cap. We are STILL after OBJ, Jarvis, Vernon etc. top 5 in the league.
No I don't care about 20 years frankly. I'd rather cut players and deal with trying to resign our own than be 100m under the cap and losing. I do not care about the long term, I want to see a playoff game before I die.
I feel your pain, it's been a long time for me as well, and I have seen the Browns win the championsip.
That said, you still need to look towards the future. Only stupid people or desperate people "bet the ranch".
We are in good shape bro.....my hope is I can live long enough to ride out Bakers run. He can play for 15 more years. Nothing says I am going to live to be 85. Even 71.
Then again, I might make it to 105..you just never know, and best we don't. Just suck in every day, man.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
May I ask why three of you are trying to turn a thread about Landry into a New England thread?
Landry is an excellent WR and no amount of deflection or absurd evaluations by guys who are still championing an unemployed former Brown talent evaluator [sic] is going to change that.
Here is an article that came out after the trade for OBJ. It ranks the best WR corps heading into next season. I'm sure this another terrible reference, but here it is anyway:
Quote:
1. Cleveland Browns
No wide receiver corps can compare to what Cleveland now has at its disposal. The Beckham trade gave the Browns an unbelievable quartet: Odell Beckham Jr., Jarvis Landry, Antonio Callaway, and Rashard Higgins. The best part about this group is that all four players are young (26 or under). With Baker Mayfield leading the charge, the Browns have an offense that will be must-see television on a weekly basis going forward.
This is an excerpt from a BrownsWire article that quoted PFF's evaluation of the Brown's wide receivers in 2017. You know, before John Dorsey arrived.
Quote:
A deeper look at the Pro Football Focus grades for those wide receivers reveals just how problematic the position remains for Cleveland. The Browns had three receivers with enough snaps to qualify for full-season rankings in the PFF grading metrics.
Corey Coleman scored the best with a 45.9 grade. That figure slots him at No. 102 overall. Rashard Higgins (110) and Ricardo Louis (114) followed Coleman on the list of 116 qualifiers. That’s right. The Browns fielded three of the bottom 15 receivers in the league. Add in Kenny Britt, who finished 105th in his half-season in Cleveland, and the Browns own 25 percent of the worst 16 receivers in the league.
Let's get very real here. John Dorsey has turned the Brown's WR unit from the worst in the NFL into one of--if not the--very best in the entire league. No amount of pontificating is going to change that.
I am trying to justify a position, just as others are trying to justify their position.
Here is more justification: Jarvis Landry had more catches in first 4 years in the NFL than any WR in NFL History. I suppose that isn't a good measuring stick, either. Here is a link: https://dolphinswire.usatoday.com/2017/1...t-four-seasons/
I also heard a reporter say he has the most of any NFL WR in history after his first 5 years, but I can't find a link for that.
brilliant analysis, versatile. we had three second year receivers , one taken in the fourth round and one taken in the fifth round, I believe. and surprise surprise, the aren’t very good. maybe you should expend some of your vitriol on the guys who ignored the wide receiver position for a couple of years, including a year we knew our #1 receiver was going to be suspended for the season. Hard to do when your obsession with sashi overwhelms your sensibilities.
all that said Jon Dorsey has done a miraculous work and if this season plays out like it possibly could he should be at the top of the list for exec of the year if they have that award!!!
We paid quite a bit of money for Britt. We drafted Coleman in round one and Louis in round 4. You can belittle me all you want, but that unit sucked and Landry is a very good WR.
There is nothing for me to defend ... VG is a PLAYMAKER and is not even close to being overpaid ...
The first video is new to me and I had not seen it posted here so i shared it .. I LOVE the top 10 catches video from this year ... look at those catches ... 6 or 7 f them are AWESOME catches topped IMO by the catch against the Jets and he catch against the rats ... there ain’t much else to talk about now ... so why not .. I’M EXCITED about this season .. I CAN’T WAIT ...
as the announcer was announcing the catch against the Jets he said “Landry with the catch” he said it with a voice as if he was asking a question cause he couldn’t believe he caught it ... *LOL* ... u know how strong his hands had to be to make that catch .. the degree of difficulty was off the charts ...
And the catch against the rats ... IMO the toughest catch i saw all year ... i still am amazed when i watch that play ...
I admired VG from afar when he was on the Fish .. thought i was dreamin when they GAVE HIM TO US .... Adam Gase gifted VG to us ... i said from day one I LOVE VG cause he ...
CATCHES THE F’NG BALL ... ... even in your old age u may remember that phrase as i said it about 50 times ... *L* ....
I figured I’d have some fun in the thread title and take a shot at the menAzs that still insist he’s overpaid ... i made it fun for me ...
I really don’t have to defend my position ... there’s no reason too ....
The mans a PLAYMAKER ... not a true #1 but a top 15 WR in the league ... and no way is he overpaid ... witch u agree with ...
OMG!!! That was freaking awesome! He's probably overrated, too. LMAO
A couple of things stood out:
--His hands are freaking huge. Did you see the size of them compared to the guy who was covering him on that contested ball early on in the video? Huge!
--I always knew he was fast, but goodness......he just blows by people. It's unfair.
--Very quick out of breaks. Very disciplined w/his routes.
OMG...........we're going to be so freaking good!!!!
No wide receiver corps can compare to what Cleveland now has at its disposal. The Beckham trade gave the Browns an unbelievable quartet: Odell Beckham Jr., Jarvis Landry, Antonio Callaway, and Rashard Higgins. The best part about this group is that all four players are young (26 or under). With Baker Mayfield leading the charge, the Browns have an offense that will be must-see television on a weekly basis going forward.
Your actually starting to scare me ... it was one thing for me to be optimistic ... u joining me is starting to scaring me ... its not natural for U and I to both be optimistic ... i feel like im in an alternate universe ... *LOL* ...
I never realized how quick he gets in and out of his breaks ... on a couple of those sidelime passes the safety had an angle and he did a slight change of direction and never slowed down a bit .. the safeties thought they had him dead in his sights and POOF he was gone ...
I am out of my mind anxious for September ... i am soooo excited ....
No wide receiver corps can compare to what Cleveland now has at its disposal. The Beckham trade gave the Browns an unbelievable quartet: Odell Beckham Jr., Jarvis Landry, Antonio Callaway, and Rashard Higgins. The best part about this group is that all four players are young (26 or under). With Baker Mayfield leading the charge, the Browns have an offense that will be must-see television on a weekly basis going forward.
! ... worth every penny
Man ... and u add to that Chubb and Hunt with a WR GROUP that is also going to be the BEST BLOCKING WR group in the NFL ... BAR NONE ...
Its seriously NOT FAIR bro ... good luck defending us ... glad we only have to do it in practice and not on Sundays ....
I always said I was realistic rather than negative, bro. Our talent sucked and I said so.
But, we got talent now. Big time talent.
We have a young stud at qb.
We have the best WR corps in the entire league.
We have two young stud RBs that are already among the league's best.
We have a talented, if inconsistent, TE. We don't need him to be great w/all of that other talent. He will drop some passes, miss some blocks, run poor routes......but, he'll make some spectacular plays.
We had the league's second rated OL last year according to PFF. We took a hit when we traded Zeitler, but we should be okay.
We have improved the D and the off-season is not over. We have a major star in Myles and a great CB in Ward. Jos S is as smart as they come and Randall is a pretty good FS.
We're freaking loaded. I'm more than excited. I'm jacked out of my mind.
The OBJ trade not long after getting Hunt for peanuts put it over the top for me. Hell, the Giants are paying a big part of his salary. Devin Funchess has the potential to make almost as much money as we are paying OBJ this year. Are you kidding me!!! OBJ is the most gifted WR in the league. He might not be rated the best due to Eli, their poor OL, and some injuries..............but NO WR is more talented.
No wide receiver corps can compare to what Cleveland now has at its disposal. The Beckham trade gave the Browns an unbelievable quartet: Odell Beckham Jr., Jarvis Landry, Antonio Callaway, and Rashard Higgins. The best part about this group is that all four players are young (26 or under). With Baker Mayfield leading the charge, the Browns have an offense that will be must-see television on a weekly basis going forward.
! ... worth every penny
Man ... and u add to that Chubb and Hunt with a WR GROUP that is also going to be the BEST BLOCKING WR group in the NFL ... BAR NONE ...
Its seriously NOT FAIR bro ... good luck defending us ... glad we only have to do it in practice and not on Sundays ....
I just texted that OBJ highlight video to my family. My wife and son are Steeler fans. My daughter and I are Brown's fans. My son already tried to downplay it.
They're scared, y'all. The Browns are coming for the Squeelers!!!
While I am excited about the coming season, I also remember the excitement after the 2007 season...and what happened in 2008. I trust it will be different this time...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
I'm just glad and Very excited to have both on this team...
And this is a key distinction. If you're happy Landry is on the team, that's great. I think there is a spin going on here (not by you) but from a select few that try to correlate the opinion of thinking Landry is overpaid to being a bad receiver. It's a poor correlation, obviously but is being thrown out there, either indirectly or directly. I don't believe he is worth what he is getting paid as he is getting paid as a #1 WR. I do think the pick we gave up for him was worth it and a good value but not the subsequent contract. Now possibly being moved inside more is better for him, but don't think a slot WR should be getting this much money.
But if one doesn't care what the contract is, then so be it. But I do and enjoy discussing value of players whether contractually and with draft picks (ex. Tyrod Tayor was a piss poor acquisiton based on what we gave up), and I'll voice it.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
While I am excited about the coming season, I also remember the excitement after the 2007 season...and what happened in 2008. I trust it will be different this time...
the talent level is way different this time around ... its much much better ..... and its NOT EVEN CLOSE on both sides of the ball ... were LOADED on O and the D has improved ... our DL is MUCH IMPROVED ... losing Peppers will be noticed, he turned the corner as the year progressed last year ... losing Kindred won’t even be noticed ... but the improvement on the DL is MASSIVE and i mean MASSIVE ...
Don't worry about it my friend. Some people can't wrap their minds around the fact that teams have a spending floor over I think a 3 season average, maybe a 4 season average, and rookies no longer get drafted and are one of, if not the highest paid player on the team.
In a year or so, Landry and Beckams contracts are going to look to be average in scale.
The plan was to pay for performance, not pay for potential, so it is what it is.
The scarce players are now those guys after their rookie contract who are good, but marginal players if you consider paying them big bucks v a rook contract.
This is exactly it. When I hear Ruseell Wilson potentially getting 30m a year my head explodes. Then I come back to earth realizing that the salary cap is going up every single year, so these "Crazy overpaid" contracts really aren't crazy.
Think about it like this, the Steelers were KNOWN for their "Team friendly" contracts with as little guaranteed money as they could.....they just had a full on mutiny for 2 seasons. You have to pay these players and fretting about the salary cap is an exercise in futility.
If we land Boston or Berry then we actually upgraded by trading peppers for OBJ. Peppers was ok and may have been good eventually, but Boston/Berry already are. I can't think of a better offensive group in the NFL right now. What's even better is theres depth at the skill positions and with the way the NFL protects QB's you see alot less injuries so your Backup QB becomes less important. Watching that video reel of OBJ, Its pretty clear without him, Eli is already out of the league for a few years now
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
people complaining about Landry being overpaid like its their money. With the new salary cap rules with the rule 89 and the cap carryover. You'll see teams be able to keep it together longer
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
Yes, some people definitely like to spin words here... I don't hate the guy, but the thing is that Landry is expensive for what he does. There's so much better value out there.
Odd thing is, most people have already agreed he's overpaid, but still want to fight it. We could go back to a previous Jarvis thread and count how many people said he's not a #1 receiver.
Regardless what most want to think, he's extremely expendable after this season. I'd imagine Jarvis chooses to leave because he won't want to restructure his contract.
I'm just glad and Very excited to have both on this team...
And this is a key distinction. If you're happy Landry is on the team, that's great. I think there is a spin going on here (not by you) but from a select few that try to correlate the opinion of thinking Landry is overpaid to being a bad receiver. It's a poor correlation, obviously but is being thrown out there, either indirectly or directly. I don't believe he is worth what he is getting paid as he is getting paid as a #1 WR. I do think the pick we gave up for him was worth it and a good value but not the subsequent contract. Now possibly being moved inside more is better for him, but don't think a slot WR should be getting this much money.
But if one doesn't care what the contract is, then so be it. But I do and enjoy discussing value of players whether contractually and with draft picks (ex. Tyrod Tayor was a piss poor acquisiton based on what we gave up), and I'll voice it.
I have not joined this particular debate before now. I understand your point, and generally agree.
That said, you have to also factor in the state of the team at the moment in time those deals were made. The Browns were, as many were fond of pointing out, a dumpster fire. Free agents of any value avoided Cleveland. The trades for Landry and Taylor were, in my mind, the turning point. There were some talented young players, but not enough star power to make other established talented players say, "there is something happening in Cleveland, and I want to be a part of it." Landry signing on long term, and having a viable QB on the roster went a long way in changing that perspective.
Taylor didn't work out like we'd hoped, but he looked better pre-season than what was there before him. Landry might not, strictly speaking, be worth #1 WR money. But his presence on the roster, with a long-term contract, helped make the franchise look more attractive to other players of value.
And that is what makes his contract worth the money. Less so for Taylor, but the concept still applies.
1. #GMstrong 2. "I'm just trying to be the best Nick I can be." ~ Nick Chubb 3. Forgive me Elf, I didn’t have faith. ~ Tulsa 4. ClemenZa #1
I have not joined this particular debate before now. I understand your point, and generally agree.
That said, you have to also factor in the state of the team at the moment in time those deals were made. The Browns were, as many were fond of pointing out, a dumpster fire. Free agents of any value avoided Cleveland. The trades for Landry and Taylor were, in my mind, the turning point. There were some talented young players, but not enough star power to make other established talented players say, "there is something happening in Cleveland, and I want to be a part of it." Landry signing on long term, and having a viable QB on the roster went a long way in changing that perspective.
Taylor didn't work out like we'd hoped, but he looked better pre-season than what was there before him. Landry might not, strictly speaking, be worth #1 WR money. But his presence on the roster, with a long-term contract, helped make the franchise look more attractive to other players of value.
And that is what makes his contract worth the money. Less so for Taylor, but the concept still applies.
I agree... overpaying for talent to legitimize the franchise. That's exactly what went down. I still don't think that justifies his contract. We can and will be legitimate without him and what you say he's getting paid for, we no longer need.
Now, but at that moment, we did. It's like buying a $500 suit to get a job. Once you have the job, the $500 suit isn't worth it, but you got the job...so it was.
1. #GMstrong 2. "I'm just trying to be the best Nick I can be." ~ Nick Chubb 3. Forgive me Elf, I didn’t have faith. ~ Tulsa 4. ClemenZa #1
I'm just glad and Very excited to have both on this team...
And this is a key distinction. If you're happy Landry is on the team, that's great. I think there is a spin going on here (not by you) but from a select few that try to correlate the opinion of thinking Landry is overpaid to being a bad receiver. It's a poor correlation, obviously but is being thrown out there, either indirectly or directly. I don't believe he is worth what he is getting paid as he is getting paid as a #1 WR. I do think the pick we gave up for him was worth it and a good value but not the subsequent contract. Now possibly being moved inside more is better for him, but don't think a slot WR should be getting this much money.
But if one doesn't care what the contract is, then so be it. But I do and enjoy discussing value of players whether contractually and with draft picks (ex. Tyrod Tayor was a piss poor acquisiton based on what we gave up), and I'll voice it.
I'm not seeing that correlation. In fact, I'm not sure anyone is even saying Landry isn't good.. And if he's capable of doing his job, then he's worth what he's being paid. Seems simple to me.
Honestly, all this discussion appears to be is "much ado about nothing"
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Good times bro .... focus on that dawg and forget about Memph and Device ... not worth the time ... i hardly ever read them anymore ... it still blows my mind why anyone reads much less responds to Throw Long .... well now Memph and Device hve joined him in the National Enquirer section of posters on the board ... *L* ....
Its FINALLY good to be a dawg ... don’t let the menZas drag u down bro ... i’m not ...
LETS GOOOOOOOooooooo
Go re-watch the highlight reels of Bake, OBJ and the overpaid one ... .... we get to look forward to that next season after an entire off season and TC of them working together with Freddie who knows Bake and VG very well ..... damm .. i’m EXCITED .... next up will be Chubb’s and then Hunts ...
The point is .. We had tried to upgrade the WR position on the cheap.. we had tried Kenny Britt, a former # 1, far past his prime. We had tried Tererll Pryor, an Athlete, but not a receiver. WE NEEDED TALENT. We were not going to get talent on the cheap.
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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