Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 4 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 77,468
P
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 77,468
You have swung and missed. He wasn't even talking about the two men. He was talking about the mind set of voters. Voters who vote out of anger to blow up the system.

Many Trump voters voted for him to blow up the system. Many people who support Bernie wish to blow up the system. They are at opposite ends of the spectrum but many of their voters want some type of revolution in government.

It's not really a hard concept to grasp. Nowhere did he compare these two candidates as the same.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864
BpG Offline
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864
What was I swinging at? I posted a direct tweet from a top democrat that was topical.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,354
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,354
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Quote:
Also, if your OPINION is that its its "age discrimination, but with good and sound reasons" than that's still DISCRIMINATION! By you.

If I read Daman's original post correctly, he's not saying he shouldn't be allowed to campaign, run, or win because of his age... he's simply saying that he probably won't vote for him and his age is a factor in that decision... and we all get to use whatever criteria we want when determining for whom we will vote.


Some folks will say anything to put down someone that doesn't see things their way!


#GMSTRONG

“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan

"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 77,468
P
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 77,468
Originally Posted By: BpG
It was in the article...and he's 100% correct.


This right here.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864
BpG Offline
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864
Ah, well I think he is correct and I like a lot of Bernie's policy ideas. Trump was a strike at the democratic elite and Bernie is a strike at the republican elite. They have that in common and neither one is really incorrect, they are just sick of the BS.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 77,468
P
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 77,468
I don't really disagree with your premise in regards to how their voters think. But I think Bernie as the nominee would be a disaster for the Democrats.

You won't win the presidency by garnering even more support from the places you're already winning. You already have the liberal states and will get their electoral college votes no matter the candidate you run.

What you need to win is gaining votes you aren't getting now in states you're losing by the slimmest of margins. You have to once again make a connection with the working class and average Americans. I don't see Bernie being that candidate.

I give Bernie a great deal of credit. He's brought a lot of issues and platform ideas to the forefront. He was championing many of these ideas when nobody else would touch them. He's been a trailblazer in that regard.

But I don't see trying to cram every liberal idea down the nations throat in one sitting as a way to accomplish the end results. Trying to cram too much down someone's throat in one sitting only leads to them throwing up.

That's not the reaction we need right now.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864
BpG Offline
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864
They are absolutely not going to do that. The response to Trump has been to become even more radically progressive, which would seem to point directly at Bernie.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,773
O
OCD Offline OP
Legend
OP Offline
Legend
O
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,773
There is a long time before the 2020 primary debates. Half of this field will be gone by then. At this point I just want to see what cream rises to the top and who defeats themselves. I want no unfair play toward or by any of them.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 77,468
P
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 77,468
While that sounds great in theory, I think one needs to remember it's the squeaky wheel that gets greased first. Just because it's the radical wing of the party you hear the most, doesn't mean that's the thought process of the voters at large. In Iowa at the current time, it seems two of the three leading candidates in the polls are the most moderate Democrats running.

Biden 19%
Sanders 19%
Buttigieg 14%



Buttigieg has come from a complete unknown to a top three candidate in just a matter of a few weeks. I'm not sure how it will all play out, but a lot of the extreme left is getting increasingly worried about Buttigieg.

I don't blame them. He'a veteran who hails from Indiana. He's a graduate of Harvard and a road scholar. He talks instead of yells. He's articulate and moderate compared to those who surround him. He speaks seven different languages and is an accomplished pianist.

If anyone is looking for the antithesis of Trump, they can find it in Mayor Pete.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,773
O
OCD Offline OP
Legend
OP Offline
Legend
O
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,773
We get it bro, you like Pete. I do too. I just like Bernie more. But trust me, if Pete is the nomoninee he will get my vote. I just don't think we should run to center before we pull the center back to true center. The right moved the center into deep red territory then went radical with their alt-right Trump movement.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 77,468
P
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 77,468
I'm simply pointing out my thoughts on what the best path is moving forward for the Democrats to win the White House in 2020. But you are right. I do like Pete.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
Dawg Talker
Offline
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
Originally Posted By: Swish
sounds like a great quote on twitter. in real life practice, its stupid.

what if whats better for you is completely terrible for every one else?


I believe Swish that if its good for me its good for you and yours as well, I am but an average American.

Here is something else I believe, I believe when we help each other we also help ourselves.

The reality is we are all in this together good or bad.

For far to long our needs have been cast aside in favor of the greed of the very few. I think thats what needs to change, I also think that when we find a person or party that we believe will fight for our needs tooth and nail that person will so excite us voters will turn out in record numbers due to that excitement and then we begin the process of helping ourselves.


BTTB

AKA Upbeat Dawg

Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,773
O
OCD Offline OP
Legend
OP Offline
Legend
O
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,773
Bernie Sanders just gave the best political answer on impeachment

(CNN)Bernie Sanders didn't build his political career on pragmatism. But on Monday night at a CNN-sponsored town hall, he showed that his presidential candidacy will be about more than simply tilting at windmills -- delivering a practical (and nuanced) response to whether his party should push to impeach President Donald Trump in the wake of the release of the Mueller report.

Here's the bulk of what Sanders said (it's long, but important):

"At the end of the day, what is most important to me is to see that Donald Trump is not re-elected president, and I intend to do everything I can to make sure that doesn't happen.

"But if -- and this is an if -- if for the next year, year-and-a-half, going right into the heart of the election, all that the Congress is talking about is impeaching Trump and Trump, Trump, Trump, and Mueller, Mueller, Mueller, and we're not talking about health care, we're not talking about raising the minimum wage to a living wage, we're not talking about combating climate change, we're not talking about sexism and racism and homophobia, and all of the issues that concern ordinary Americans, what I worry about is that works to Trump's advantage."

Sanders went on to say that he supports the House conducting an investigation into some of the seemingly obstructive behaviors by Trump documented by Mueller and that, once that investigation concludes, he was open to reassessing.

That seems to me to be right where Democrats need to be heading into 2020. And here's why:

1) Abandoning the Mueller report conclusions is unacceptable to the party's political base.

2) Impeachment will allow Trump to paint himself as a victim of overly partisan Democrats looking to run him out because they lost an election.

3) Senate Republicans will simply not abandon Trump en masse, ensuring that even if impeachment succeeds in the House, Trump will not be removed from office.

Given those three competing realities, Sanders' position -- we need to continue to investigate but we can't build the entire Democratic case against Trump in 2020 around impeachment -- is the most politically sound place to be.

Although Sanders didn't mention the 2016 campaign or Hillary Clinton's strategy against Trump in that race, it's clear that his position on Trump and impeachment is informed by that contest.

In 2016, Clinton's underlying (and sometimes overlying) message was something like this: Trump is awful and you will never vote for him. And I am the only other person running for president.

Yes, Clinton talked policy, too, but the overarching message was entirely focused on her belief that Trump was unfit for office. And voters agreed! Exit polling from that race showed that just more than a third of all voters liked Trump, thought he was honest and trustworthy or believed he had the temperament to be president. But even some of those who didn't like Trump voted for him anyway because they didn't like Clinton much more -- and, as importantly, they had no sense of what she would do differently.

In short, the 2016 race became a personality contest between two people that voters didn't like. So they chose the one they thought might change things more.

Sanders is clearly wary -- and rightly so -- of re-running that race. To that point, this part of his impeachment answer really hit a chord:

"If for the next year, year-and-a-half, going right into the heart of the election, all that the Congress is talking about is impeaching Trump and Trump, Trump, Trump, and Mueller, Mueller, Mueller, and we're not talking about health care, we're not talking about raising the minimum wage to a living wage, we're not talking about combating climate change, we're not talking about sexism and racism and homophobia, and all of the issues that concern ordinary Americans, what I worry about is that works to Trump's advantage."

That's a correct assessment. Democrats don't need to convince voters that Donald Trump isn't presidential or isn't their cup of tea. Most -- outside of Trump's hardcore supporters -- already believe that. What Democrats need to do is prove to voters that on the issues they care about, Trump's policies are dangerous. Whether that's on his call to repeal the Affordable Care Act or his decision to pull the US out of the Paris Climate Accord or his hardline immigration policies.

What Sanders is arguing is that the way you beat Trump is on policy, not on personality. And that if Democrats spend the next 18 months litigating whether Trump should be impeached for his decidedly unpresidential conduct during the course of the Mueller investigation, they are allowing the race to be about personalities, not policies.

There's reason to believe Sanders is right. In the 2018 midterms, now-Speaker Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) was adamant that Democratic House candidates talk relentlessly about health care and not Trump. The Pelosi mantra was: Focus on what Trump's policies do, rather than who Trump is. And it worked. Health care was by far the top issue for voters according to 2018 exit polling, and that group voted for Democratic candidates by 52 points.

Make no mistake: Sanders knows that by not calling for Trump to be impeached, he is going against the wishes of the most liberal Democrats who comprise his base. His decision to do so suggests that, unlike in his 2016 campaign, Sanders is more focused on winning -- the nomination and the presidency -- than simply proving a point.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/23/politics/bernie-sanders-impeachment-cnn-town-hall/index.html

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
I generally agree with his strategy position. Dems in congress and Dems on the campaign trail would be better served to talk more on issues and less on "I'm not Trump" or even "I'm the person to beat Trump"

I don't know if my position is rare or if my position is common.. but as a moderate person who is right leaning on a lot of issues but a little left leaning on others... any democrat who can find some common ground with me could very easily win my vote.. it won't go to Trump. All other options from Democrat, to Independent, to a Republican who is not Trump, to not voting for President are all on the table for me.

And beating me upside the head with how you are not Trump or how you would like to impeach Trump isn't a winning argument for me...


yebat' Putin
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,022
M
Legend
Offline
Legend
M
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,022
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Democrats don't need to convince voters that Donald Trump isn't presidential or isn't their cup of tea. Most -- outside of Trump's hardcore supporters -- already believe that. What Democrats need to do is prove to voters that on the issues they care about, Trump's policies are dangerous. Whether that's on his call to repeal the Affordable Care Act or his decision to pull the US out of the Paris Climate Accord or his hardline immigration policies.


This in spades.

Personally I hope when Trump is out of office he is held accountable for every law he violated. I hope that whatever true crimes he has committed - be they financial or otherwise - he is prosecuted appropriately.... But Trump being a giant douche and a stain on humanity and the winner of the next election need to be separate issues. Hilary lost because she was as despicable to most voters as Trump was ... but where as Trump went out there and canvassed and stood for something (even if it was divisive and full of hate to many) - Hilary didn't run a campaign and she got what she deserved. I don't know if Bernie is the right candidate to lead America after Trump and start to healing process - but even if he is not the Dems need to listen to him, he's on the money here.


The more things change the more they stay the same.
Page 4 of 4 1 2 3 4
DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus ‘Stop Sanders’ Democrats Are Agonizing Over His Momentum

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5