DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2019 NFL Season 2019 NFL Draft Did we improve special teams?

Dorsey is a football guy. How is he doing?

If watching Holmgren on his golf cart taught me anything, it's that I'm more than athletic enough to coach/evaluate football.

Athleticism or lack thereof clearly has little to no bearing on one's ability to evaluate. Still, evaluators don't have to be jerks about it. That will inevitably draw sharp retorts as Baker's tweet illustrates.

I suppose I could blame the HC, who based on the results didn't give special teams enough of a focus.

We were 7th in KO returns last year, and 24th in covering opponents KO returns.

We were 12th in Punt returns, and 16th in covering punts.

We were pretty bad at FG and XP kicking.

It felt worse than those stats you quoted. Teams kicked off to us short because there was a good chance they'd pin us inside the 20

We could not cover punts or get a decent return.

I looked it up earlier today, there aren't many sites that offer ST grades, but Football Outsiders ranked the Browns #31.

Amos Jones has had among the worst special teams everywhere he goes. I don’t think that is coincidental.

And again, I will tell you that the schemetaics of coaching special teams is pretty much universal. Our ST unit was horrible under Tabor, as well.

The previous regime cut a ton of very good ST players and kept guys who they drafted instead. Those players were plugged in to the ST units and expected to perform. They didn't.

I watched us have everything in place and a guy like Ricardo Louis simply whiff on a tackle. I saw us perfectly defend a fake punt and the outside guy miss the tackle.

I know I won't convince you and others because you have your minds made up. That's cool. I made my point and will move on.

I agree. It's not like the ST coach dials up the TD return play. Players make that happen.

He might call pinch right or pinch left, then players run their lanes. On special teams it is probably 95% or more on the players.

I think what's also telling is how bad Arizona's special teams were under Jones, but last year (without him) Arizona was much improved.

The "lack of talent" argument doesn't hold much water for me.

Amos Jones is a Bruce Arians guy. I think I recall you or someone here calling him going to Tampa.

Ricardo Louis didn't even play in 2018.

Really? I didn't know that.

You're welcome.

j/c:

If you don't practice tackling with the guys playing special teams, is that on the coach or the players?

Dawg Check

Special Teams, we should sign Phil to a PAT contract, I need reliability.

A dedicated PAT kicker?

One thing I hadn't considered that I heard on Nate Ulrich's podcast about the Scottish Hammer is that he has never held before because he kicked and punted in college. That is a huge disadvantage in his battle against Colquitt and something that could hugely affect the team in a real game.

I've always preferred having a back-up QB hold on place-kicks because it creates the possibility of a fake FG, and it makes a fake more likely to succeed. It also plants a seed with the defense that they had better be mindful of protecting their edges instead of deploying an all out speed rush from the outside. Plus, in the event of an errant or fumbled snap, a QB would be about 10 times more likely to make something positive out of it than a punter would be.

versatile, I think our special teams has been pretty bad under every “regime” the past decade. I do not think it has anything to do with coaching. for years the top half of our roster has been pretty bad. when the top of the roster is bad the bottom half stinks. that leads the front office to constantly “churn” the bottom of the roster looking to add someone with a little more talent to the roster. but that means there is frequent inseason changes in the special teams and they never develop as a cohesive unit.

Our roster is way better now and I will bet that the number of inseason changes will be much less. therefore I predict our st will be much improved.

Our special teams has been lacking ever since Cribbs and Dawson left Cleveland. Big shoes to fill, as Cribbs IMO is a Hall of Famer, and Dawson has been our most consistent/clutch kicker since 99. Between the both of them, Cribbs and Dawson were the only hopes we had at winning games in the dark days of not having a competent offense.

However, I don't completely agree that our special teams unit will be any better just because the top half of our roster is. I don't think thats an equal correlation; to me, its no different than finding a franchise QB, or a HoF left tackle... We just haven't found that shining star at special teams who simply takes over. And thats either returning kicks/punts, but also on the other end at gunner. HOpefully someone on our current 90-man roster 'takes over' this year.

Turk, it is more from the fact that the bottom half of the roster has been improved enough that we will not be constantly bringing in new guys, thus our special teams will stay together and develop more cohesion and function better.

Between improving the talent level at the bottom of the roster and changing out the coaching, we should definitely be much improved.

Be fair. Its stunk it up regularly last year. We improved in my opinion with getting some people out of town . Maybe we are not sure about new fills, but one triage rule is to first stop the bleeding. Some of that has been addressed or will be with coach changes.

I'd rather them not use Calloway if possible.

Especially since Hilliard is a tailor-made return man.

unless the difference in capability is marginal or negligible, I'd prefer they use the best talent available for the task.... even if his name is Kellen Winslow, Jr.

Easy to say, until an injury actually happens.

I'm cool with a starter being out there to return kicks/punts, but if you're blocking/tackling.. naw... I wouldn't risk it. Thats just me.

This is a tough call, but I would like to see Callaway returning. I think he could grow into a very good return dude.

He looked good against the Ravens in the final game of last year.

Until your star TE breaks his leg on an off-sides return.

I said it even when the starter got injured.
The entire sport is risky; you don't play scared.

Playing scared and playing smart are two different things.

Were the Cleveland Browns playing the wrong players on special teams last year?


BEREA, Ohio -- Were the problems on the Browns’ special teams units a year ago a result of playing the wrong guys?

According to the special teams efficiency metrics from Football Outsiders, Browns special teams ranked 21st last year, dragged down by particularly bad punt coverage (30th) and kick return (30th). Out is special teams coach Amos Jones, in is special teams coach Mike Priefer, who last year in Minnesota oversaw a special teams unit ranked 14th in the league, ranking in the top 10 in both punt coverage and kick return.

But it’s not really the coaching. Before the fifth OTA practice on Wednesday, Priefer admitted he’s not going to scheme up a special teams plan to outdo another coach. It’s the players. While reluctant to critique the special teams of a year ago, Priefer did question a personnel decision that dates back to former coach Hue Jackson.

(Did anyone head to the second session of OTAs open to the media expecting for someone to suggest a faux pas by the previous coaching staff? No. But in the search for the little details of change that may help Freddie Kitchens succeed where the Jackson failed, well, our ears are always open.)

“It looked like some of the best players on special teams were on the sidelines,” Priefer said. “At the end of the day, sometimes you’ve got to put your best players out there. Sometimes your best players are on offense and defense.”

As examples with the Browns, Priefer cited starting linebackers Joe Schobert and Christian Kirksey and starting safety Damarious Randall as potential impact special teams members -- on occasion.

“I wouldn’t use them a lot,” Priefer said. “That would be dumb on my part.”

But he could use them at times, if, you know, it helps the Browns win. Kitchens has emphasized special teams since the moment he was given the job, and Priefer has felt that support in OTAs. He said other expected starters like running backs Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt, tight end David Njoku and cornerback Denzel Ward have been in special teams meetings and part of special teams drills.

Typically, the special teams aces are the second-team safeties, corners, linebackers, receivers, running backs and tight ends, and Priefer said if the Browns don’t need to use any offensive and defensive starters on special teams, great. But if they do? That’s what now is for.

“If I’m going to ask guys to perform for us, I need to prepare them. So when the head coach says get them ready, I’ll get them ready,” Priefer said.

A year ago, among the 15 players who took part in the most special teams snaps, four also were major players on either offense or defense: starting safety and return man Jabrill Peppers; T.J. Carrie, a part-time starter at corner; and backup safeties Derrick Kindred and Brien Boddy-Calhoun. Chubb made an impact on coverage units before he turned onto the No. 1 tailback.

But Ward (54 special teams snaps), Schobert (46), Randall (25) and Kirksey (19) were special teams non-factors, while backups like linebackers Tanner Vallejo and D’Juan Hines and cornerbacks Taveirre Thomas and Denzel Rice played primary roles.

Vallejo, Hines and Rice are all gone now. Thomas is in a fight for a roster spot. As the Browns become a better team, their depth will improve, and that means their special teams will improve. Among young players catching Priefer’s eye so far, he mentioned rookie safety Sheldrick Redwine and rookie linebackers Mack Wilson and Sione Takitaki, all taken in the middle rounds of the draft, as well as undrafted rookie linebacker Willie Harvey.

Those are potential special teamers to rely upon -- guys on the way up -- as opposed to some of the special teamers last year, who were guys on their way off the roster. Beyond them, the Browns added a true special teams specialist in safety Eric Murray, acquired in a trade with Kansas City, while Priefer also pointed out second-team linebacker Ray-Ray Armstrong, who was 15th in special teams snaps last year.

Of Murray, Priefer said, "He’s got want-to, intelligence and athleticism. He knows if he’s not starting on defense, he’ll play all four core special teams. I love that. We’ve got several guys like that.”

Last year, the Browns didn’t have enough of them. What Priefer said he’s looking for now are guys who want to play special teams, because anyone who isn’t an offensive or defensive starter and doesn’t show special teams desire “will be somewhere else or on the street,” Priefer said.

The work now is on simple techniques -- footwork and hand placement and the art of avoiding special teams penalties, which killed the Browns at times last year. They’re putting in the time -- this is Priefer’s 18th season coaching NFL special teams and he said he’s never had a coach put as much time into it in OTAs as Kitchens.

“Our head coach is not just lip service,” Priefer said. “He’s shown it. He wants to do well on special teams.”

It’s also not just lip service that the Browns could make a jump. With the draft picks the Browns made in 2018, they combined for only 419 special teams snaps. Baker Mayfield and Chad Thomas didn’t play there, and none of the other rookies were core special teamers.

Now, with Redwine, Wilson, Takitaki and maybe cornerbacks Greedy Williams and Donnie Lewis, up-and-coming talent should at least triple the numbers of rookie special teams snaps from a year ago. Throw in Murray and Armstrong as veterans, and the willingness to use starters like Randall, Schobert or Kirksey when necessary, and you can see how the Browns could fix this.

It’s the players. But it’s also coaches willing to put the special teams players on the field needed to win.

https://www.cleveland.com/osu/2019/05/we...lesmerises.html

Might add Avery to list as well.

What I like is that these guys are LBs and DBs, not WRs. In the NFL, you can have a long career if you are a ST stud. It keeps you on the roster, and puts you in a position to compete for time on offense and defense.

Freddie giving STs equal time also gives these guys a sense of being a big part of the team. An equal part you could say. As a team that has started just about every drive from inside the 20, it would be nice to do that to the opponents for a change.

Thanks for posting and my commentary has nothing to do w/you posting this.

However, as soon as I saw this...



...I knew who the author was.

People get on Grossi and Mary Kay. Rightfully so. However, Lesmerises is the most clueless and biased reporter on the Cleveland scene. He reminds of two posters on this board. Hmmmm...........

I don't care for this writer. Why beat on your own?

Pluto, please.