DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Myles Garrett

Not really. A bad coach is still a bad coach regardless of talent.

While that's true, it's hard to know if he's bad when he isn't given the talent to win with. If he's given that talent and can't win it makes the answer obvious.

A team with not enough talent to win will not win, regardless of the coach. Doesn't mean the coach is not a bad coach, but would be difficult to ascertain if he does not have the talent to work with.

The two are opposite sides of the same coin. You need both before it's worth anything.


Because we're on the outside looking in, it can be difficult to tell whether a team sucks because of comparatively poor talent or because of poor coaching/decision making simply because we are not privy to what is happening between them. We cannot judge if the problem is poor direction or poor execution without knowing what the directions given were, and we rarely get to know that with any certainty.

I don't think it's that difficult. All you have to do is draw on past data. For starters, the two years under Hue were historically bad seasons. Like serious outlier anamoly seasons. Then you have to ask yourself if his situation was that much different than any single coach for any team in the many, many years of the NFL. While being dealt a crappy hand it's hard to believe he's been one of the only coaches dealt a crappy hand in the history of the NFL. Yet he produced the worst results.

Not without it's holes, but to say we needed to see Hue with some talent to decide whether he was a bad coach or not is a bit of a reach when you consider the history of the NFL. I mean when you start talking about serious outlier seasons you're probably safe to jump to some conclusions.

especially at QB.

I like what you said here.

0-16 is incredibly difficult to achieve, and we almost did it twice.

But i'm incredibly happy where we are, so if 40 games of Hue was necessary to get here, so be it.

j/c:

Glad to see all this information about Myles Garrett and not the same old agenda crap.

Myles Garrett was my second favorite draft choice, after Joe Thomas, since the Browns have come back. I got into a lot of debates leading up to that draft. I was adamant that we should draft him. Thank goodness we did.

With that said, I would like to see Myles make that next step this year. He's been good. Dominant at times, but somewhat inconsistent. I expect more from him. No pass rusher is always going to always get home, but he can't allow a single blocker to neutralize him as often as it has been occurring.

I think he is extremely smart and a hard worker. I think he is unbelievably gifted. I think Vernon will help him. I think it would be great if he takes the next step........the one that I always envisioned when I watched him in college and becomes one of the top three edge rushers in the entire league.

I remember watching him a few years ago in the first game of the year when he was at Texas A&M. I think they were playing UCLA. I came on here in one of the college threads and said he was the best player in the nation. I didn't realize he wasn't eligible for the draft that year. The dude is a true freak of nature. We throw that word around a lot, but he really is. I want him to take that next step this year. It would be huge for our team.

Sorry to throw the Myles Garrett commentary in here while device and company are still talking about Hue, but I couldn't figure where else to put my thoughts on Myles Garrett.

You could start a Hue thread and put it in there.

That makes me smile

I'm assuming this is still true and QBs don't get horsecollar protection in the pocket:

PFT: Horse collar exception for quarterbacks in pocket remains Link

I imagine so. If that was not a horse collar tackle, then there has yet to be a horse collar tackle.

Horse collar tackles are allowed on QBs in the pocket.

Especially if you are being held and tackled

I was not insinuating that they are not. It is still a horse collar tackle, it is just not a penalty because of the circumstances.

Just adding this thought:

It must be one helluva strange, disorienting experience to be horse-collared like that.

On second, you're upright, scanning the field.
The next... you're being bent backwards at a high velocity. Your vision swims from the field to the stands, and then to the sky
("what an amazing shade of blue-") just before...

BAM.

"Oh, fuh-SHEEZY..."

_______________

"Head, shoulders- I'm your new friend, Myles. I'd like to introduce you to my friend, Mr. Turf. You can trust that whenever I grab you by the collar, he'll always be there to have your back."

It's bad. I had it happen a couple of times, but mostly no one could catch me. LOL

What is worse is being hit head on. The two worst hits I endured were after interceptions. I was running routes out of the backfield and the ball was picked. I immediately turned and chased in both instances just like I always did in such situations and was blind-sided on peel-back blocks that I did not see until it was too late.

Dude, talk about your world being rocked. You are running full speed and are a bit disoriented as it is and some big-ass dude comes flying at you full speed and hits you head to head, chest to chest, and rocks your entire freaking world.

I suffered 1 of my 7 concussions on one of those plays. You're my age. You know how it was. I went back in the damn game. LOL

I was never upset w/the dudes who laid me out because I did the same to others when the roles were reversed. It was a tough game and we all KNEW what to expect.

I got layed out 1 time by a 5'9", maybe 160 receiver. Running play to my side. I had outside contain. Had the back dead to rights and all of a sudden - BAM. The wide out had come back and I'm not joking, hit me so hard as I was in pursuit that my feet .........well, lets just say my body stopped moving, and my feet reached the height of where my head should've been.

On that note...

Yeah, crack backs are a .....!

Wow. While mine was a running play, it was very similar to that, except my feet went much higher.....

This could go here or in the McCoy thread. I'm putting it here because of the parts about Garrett having more freedom in pass rushing moves under Wilks.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/05...sh-arsenal.html

AKRON, Ohio -- Odell Beckham Jr. took to Instagram on Monday night to lobby for former Buccaneers defensive lineman Gerald McCoy to join him in Cleveland. Myles Garrett wasn’t ready to do the same on Tuesday.

Garrett took part in a groundbreaking at Ellet High School for a new synthetic turf field as part of an initiative by Browns owners Dee and Jimmy Haslam. This will be the ninth field installed since 2016 and will be completed prior to the start of the 2019 school year.

Following the ceremony, Garrett joked that Beckham should worry about his side of the ball when his lobbying for McCoy was brought up. He also didn’t take the opportunity to join in the recruiting efforts.

“What they decide to do, I’ll be OK with and I’ll accept it and move on,” Garrett said, “but I think we’re good with what we have.”

It shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone that Garrett is sticking with the guys already on his team. During the run-up to the 2018 NFL Draft, when edge rusher Bradley Chubb seemed a real possibility for the Browns with the No. 4 overall pick in the draft, Garrett spoke highly of then-teammate Emmanuel Ogbah and the havoc he believed they could wreak together.

Ogbah never met those expectations in 2018 and the Browns acquired Olivier Vernon and traded Ogbah in April to Kansas City in exchange for Eric Murray. They also added Sheldon Richardson inside next to Larry Ogunjobi. Garrett sounded happy with that group on Tuesday.

“I’m always going to be passionate about the guys we have in the locker room because they’ve always been OK with me, they’ve always done right by me," Garrett said, "so I have no problem playing with them, going out there and sweating, bleeding and winning with them.”

Garrett even went so far as to predict Ogunjobi joining him in the Pro Bowl.

“I don’t think people have been able to see all of Larry,” Garrett said. “I think that first year we both were just getting our first looks at the NFL. Some people come in and have this gigantic splash, some people just got to smoothly transition into it and I think he made that large leap last year, he was just a little bit hindered (by a torn biceps). I think he’s out for a breakout year.”

Making moves: Earlier this month, Garrett revealed in an article by Bleacher Report’s Dan Pompei that former Browns defensive coordinator Gregg Williams limited him to two pass rush moves.

“I hopefully have more freedom to be the player I want to be,” Garrett told Pompei. “Gregg was more like: ‘You win with these two moves. I don’t want to see anything else out of you.’ It’s kind of hard with two moves.”

Garrett said on Tuesday that it was Williams, not him, who picked the moves and he’ll have more freedom this year under new defensive coordinator Steve Wilks.

“He’s seen what I can do with just those limited amount of moves as he pointed out to me. So I think I’ll be able to surprise him this year,” Garrett said.

Garrett ended up with 13.5 sacks a season ago but felt like he would have had more, even if he didn’t want to say how many more.

“I don’t want to put a number on that,” he said.

His comments didn’t lead to any kind of meeting with Wilks or new head coach Freddie Kitchens, either.

“They joked with me about it that next day but they want the best for me,” Garrett said. “They want me to go out there and be the best player I can be.”

Learnin’ from Vernon: Garrett is getting his first exposure to Vernon this spring since the trade that brought him here. He sees the addition of a veteran pass rusher as a good thing.

“He’s been in this league for a while now, he’s played with some of the best, so he’s picked up a couple things along the way,” Garrett said, “so I’m hoping that he’ll be willing to share some knowledge.”

As for Vernon’s personality:

“He’s probably the most relaxed person I’ve ever met besides me," Garrett said. "He doesn’t show any emotion, he’ll come off the edge, all of a sudden he’ll hit a move on you and it’s just like he wasn’t there. He’s really calm, collected.”

New fields: The field in Ellet is the second the Browns have broken ground on scheduled for completion this year. The team officially broke ground on a new synthetic turf field at Boys Hope-Girls Hope of Northeastern Ohio last week.

Last year, Lorain City School District’s George Daniel Field and Toledo’s Roy C. Start High School received new fields.

Five fields in the city of Cleveland received new fields to kick off the program. Roye Kidd Stadium, James F. Rhodes Stadium and Bump Taylor Stadium were renovated prior to the 2016 high school football season, while John Adams High School and John Marshall High School were updated prior to the 2017 campaign.

“Being a part of this moment, knowing that this is a large part of their lives as well, just being able to come out here and showcase their talents and then go back in the classroom feeling a little bit better about themselves and wanting to do better,” Garrett said, “being a part of that meant a lot to me.”

J/C

I don't recall how I found this site, something to do with the draft. I'm really starting to enjoy reading these articles. This one gave me something to think about concerning Myles latest comments about McCoy. I can only say that I was mildly uncomfortable with Myles' remarks before reading the article. Afterward, I had a better appreciation for how he handled the questions about McCoy

Brownsmaven

Myles Garrett isn't the GM. Don't ask him to be

Pete Smith
by
Pete Smith
12 hrs
Myles Garrett is being criticized despite giving the perfect answer to a roster question as if the 23-year old third year player needs to be in the business of telling the Cleveland Browns which players they need to go get.

At a groundbreaking ceremony to put in a brand new field at Ellet High School courtesy of the Cleveland Browns, Myles Garrett was asked if he thought the Browns needed to add Gerald McCoy to their defensive line. Garrett responded by standing up for his teammates and suggesting the Browns didn't need McCoy, a player that Garrett can do nothing about in regards to signing. And he's receiving criticism for it.

Myles Garrett can say the Browns need Gerald McCoy and be seen saying a team poised to make a playoff run doesn't have enough talent while also being seen telling his teammates aren't good enough to get there. It doesn't do the Browns any good for Garrett to acknowledge weakness for a team that has expectations when he as much control in a decision to sign McCoy as I do.

Garrett would get just as far if he said the team needed Aaron Donald or Reggie White. He has no ability to impact anything other than openly questioning the talent of his teammates and giving the impression the Browns need help.


And in the event the Browns don't sign McCoy, Garrett's gonna need the teammate that is kept as a result to perform at a high level. Undermining him doesn't help.

And Cleveland fans should be able to relate to this after experiencing about a decade of LeBron James. James had the power to effectively get players dealt or openly ask for help. And in some respects, he was applauded for it as he was cracking the proverbial whip to put pressure on the organization to compete for a championship. He was also a terrible teammate in those situations, willing to throw his teammates under the bus.

When he was far and away the best player in the world, he could get away with it. He was great enough to where people were willing to put up with it in pursuit of a championship, playing alongside one of the best ever to do it.

Contrast that to LeBron now, who this past season was pretty open about the team needing to acquire Anthony Davis in order for the Los Angeles Lakers to be good enough for him. Combine the fact he killed his teammates in public and any notion of chemistry as well as LeBron dealing with an injury that sidelined him for a significant portion of the season, the team went from fourth place in the West to a listless lottery team hoping to somehow win the #1 overall pick.


At just 23 years old, Garrett is showing a wisdom that isn't typical of players that young in professional sports. Support your teammates to the hilt. Care about them, so when you need them to step up, you can call on them and they will listen.

Does anyone really believe that if the Browns do sign Gerald McCoy that Garrett is going to go up and tell him to get out, the Browns don't need him? At that point, he simply defaults to the organization and then supports his new teammate the same way he did the others. It's the smartest play he can make.

Garrett did the exact same thing when it came to standing up for Emmanuel Ogbah. While he may have been disappointed to see Ogbah go, he doesn't look unhappy with having Olivier Vernon on the team now. It's a no-lose situation.

“I’m always going to be passionate about the guys we have in the locker room because they’ve always been OK with me, they’ve always done right by me, so I have no problem playing with them, going out there and sweating, bleeding and winning with them.” - Myles Garrett per Cleveland.com

This is what players want in a leader. Football becomes such a bunker mentality that is constantly reinforcing the idea that it's 'us against the world' and this plays right into it. It's completely on point.


If people are going to criticize Garrett, it should be for suggesting Odell Beckham needs to stay on his side of the ball. Again, Garrett is standing up for his guys and Beckham has been a Brown for 20 minutes, so he wants to establish a precedent that he shouldn't criticize teammates, especially when he hasn't been there long enough to know them. Garrett could have worded it better or simply not commented on that part at all, but the message is consistent.

Freddie Kitchens lectured the media on attempts to divide the team. This is a great example and Garrett deftly avoided the situation, saying exactly what his coach would want, what Kitchens would say if he was asked. Rather than criticizing Garrett, it might be time to learn from him.

Nice read. MG is a beast, and a natural leader, so glad we drafted him.

Good article. Thanks.

Glad that I looked over recent post because I was about to add that Jake Burns article. There has been a lot of speculation about what Wilks' scheme will look like. This article gives us another hint about the front. Wilks may do something totally unlike what Burns suggests but it seems like Garrett will line up a lot more often at LDE and Vernon will have an increase of LDE snaps but not as much as G-Rex.

I also expect Vernon's sack production to take an uptick. He faced some of the best tackles in the league in the NFC East Div. The tackles in our division are a bit less formidable.

I agree w/that ... Vernon's productivity should go up now. With the play of the RTs in our league and less focus on him

I think both vernon and MG should both get 11+ this year

Garrett is going to have a monster year with Vernon on the opposite side

I think it's even more than that. We have 4 seriously good DL all the way across the line. Vernon isn't the only one who will take pressure off Garrett. Ogunjobi has 52 tackles, 5.5 sacks, and 7 tackles for loss. Richardson had 4.5 sacks, 46 tackles, and 3 for loss.

We see NFL defenses trying to put pressure on the QB right in his face, and I think we are set up well to do this. I expect that Larry and Sheldon will have 12 or 13 sacks, combined.

Should be a fun year.

I agree YTown I neglected to mention Ogynjobi and Richardson which I should have, those two will put pressure in the QB's face then Garrett and Vernon will clean it up

Love Myles, but speeding the tape up to make him look faster is a bit much.