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The funny thing about guys like you is you can play a keyboard like a fiddle but say very little.  And I have no idea what you are talking about when you say the crap I have spewed, because most of what I have said have come to pass. In fact I don't have to type a book of nonsense like you. I have stated (mostly in brief to the point posts  ) that from the day we drafted Frye that he was no more than a backup quallity QB in the NFL. Iwould say I have been proven right. I have also said that Butch was an idiot for benching Couch after the playoff season in 2002. And I still say that Couch is still the best QB we have had since our return which is a fact. Now Mr. high and mighty get off of your thrown (porcelain I would guess ) and tell me were the crap is! 
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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We can't start Quinn now... we just can't. I know it's painful to have to watch Frye and Anderson stink it up on a regular basis, but it's a necessary evil. Our situation is one that we can't just plug a rookie quarterback in and suddenly everything is clicking on all cylinders and we're a contender - the problem spreads beyond. We need everything to shape up before we consider sacrificing another young QB.
We throw Quinn in now and we run the risk of ruining his confidence and any ability he may have once possessed just like we did Couch, just like we did Frye. Looking at our schedule, in 2006 YPG rankings, the pre-bye defenses we face look like this:
Cincinnati - 30th
Oakland - 3rd
Baltimore - 1st
New England - 6th
Miami - 4th
Now, in comparison to after the bye week:
St. Louis - 23rd
Seattle - 19th
Pittsburgh - 9th
Baltimore - 1st
Houston - 24th
New York Jets - 20th
Buffalo - 18th
Cincinnati - 30th
San Francisco - 26th
Take a look at that. We face 4 top 6 defenses in 5 weeks. After that, we face 1 in 9 weeks. Now take a look at that again so it all sinks in.
If we save Quinn until the bye, he a) learns the playbook and offense better b) develops better skills through practice and c) gets to avoid getting murdered by some of the best defenses in the NFL. If we use him before the bye week... well, let's just say that he may not make it past it in one piece. Let Frye and Anderson fall victim to the monsters beforehand and give Quinn a cushy part of the schedule to get used to things.
As much as I want to see Quinn now, I want to see him leading us through the playoffs a couple years from now. I hope Phil and Romeo have the gumption to stay strong, because the odds of Quinn turning the franchise around versus those defenses are not nearly high enough for the risk involved.
I don't know about you all but, personally, I'm willing to suffer through 5 more miserable games so that we never have to see it again after this year.
We're... we're good?
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1st String
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I appreciate your well thought out response but I disagree with the thought that we will ruin Quinn by starting him sooner rather than later. Quote:
Our situation is one that we can't just plug a rookie quarterback in and suddenly everything is clicking on all cylinders and we're a contender - the problem spreads beyond.
I agree 100% and even if Quinn was to start next week I would'nt expect to make the playoffs this year but in the same sense I would expect to see a more competitve team.
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We throw Quinn in now and we run the risk of ruining his confidence and any ability he may have once possessed just like we did Couch, just like we did Frye.
I honestly don't have any fear at all of this happening. Brady is a complete different QB than Couch and Frye. He has been called by Charlie Wiess,( a very knowledgeable and proven NFL offensive coach) that Quinn is one of the most NFL ready rookie QBs to come into the league in sometime. As an example Ben Roethlisberger started early his rookie season as did Vince Young and Matt Lienert. So if Brady is one of the most NFL ready QBs coming out of college then I'm pretty sure he can deal with all those things you are concerned about. 
AS far as the competition he would have to face in the next few weeks as a starter I look at it this way he will have to do it sooner or later and he sure as hell is not going to learn anything watching the Frye/Anderson comedy hour! 
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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Savage said that the Browns are meeting at 7AM tomorrow morning to discuss what will happen with this team... sounds like Savage doesn't expect Quinn to start next week... the announcers were mixed.
Good Lord I can't wait until the announcers make their decision!!!
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PATIENCE PATIENCE PATIENCE .....
Starting BQ isn't about the next 5 games its about the NEXT 10 YEARS .....
and starting BQ certainly isnt about our potential FA's ...
PATIENCE PATIENCE PATIENCE .....
his time will come ... lets do it right and WAIT till the TIME IS RIGHT ... and its NOT RIGHT NOW ......
I agree with that...
But man that was tough to watch yesterday...I DVR'd it to look at a few times but I don't really think I even need to...
How many times did we see passes miss by 4 feet...And MOST ARE BEHIND RECEIVERS...That just cannot happen...And it happened CONSISTENTLY...From BOTH OF EM'...And I'm sorry folks but it ain't from the new offense...That's from QB's that still haven't adjusted to the SPEED OF THE GAME and have a hard time with TIMING...
Quinn won't play this week but damn he may just be ready come Oakland...
It's amazing the body language of these guys on offense...It reeks of NO CONFIDENCE at all...
I'm not sure how long Crennel and Savage can hold out man...
That was embarrassing...The looks on these 2 guys faces says it all...CONFUSED...
Frye walks around like "Golly Gee Folks"...And Anderson just laughs at everything...
Here's what's gonna happen real soon...Like NEXT WEEK...
One of these 2 is gonna be RELEASED and Dorsey will get a call and be signed...
I totally understand now why we kept Anderson...We needed a #2 because of the lack of confidence in Frye...U just don't pull your starter GAME ONE IN THE 2ND QUARTER...
Go Browns!!!
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I agree Corps...
This BS about the defense we're playin' is just that...BS...
GET USED TO IT...This is the NFL...And 2 of the 3 teams in our division have solid D's EVERY YEAR and it ain't changin' anytime soon...
I GUARANTEE ya' that if u asked Quinn himself he'd say HE WANTS TO PLAY THESE D's...
If he said anything different then we got a PUSS at QB...
Go Browns!!!
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Legend
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Quote:
PATIENCE PATIENCE PATIENCE .....
Starting BQ isn't about the next 5 games its about the NEXT 10 YEARS .....
I know that's the right thingto do, but after that game yesterday... I mean, that was pitiful. 
Ahhh i'm just venting.
Last edited by lampdogg; 09/10/07 08:03 AM.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Specture
rumors are this meeting at 7 am will consist of Savage "Telling" Romeo..Quinn is our starter...Savage drafted him for that very reason anyways
don't give me this hoo about him not being ready, he will be fine
i personally didn't want Quinn in there, but after seeing "how bad" our QB situation is(Frye, Anderson) Savage really has no choice
if we don't win this year, Romeo will be gone, and so will Savage...Savage was allready told by Lerner that this is his "Last Chance" to either win some games, or you and Romeo are out of her...remember..Lerner was gonna fire savage 2 years ago, and axed John Collins instead
Collins said Savage mad a mistake with Romeo and Edwards and was advising Lerner to fire them both, but the fans(being dumb) got into a big uproar over it, and Collins was axed instead
Was Collins correct? did we make a mistake with Savage and Crennell?..we may have, and Collins was trying to damage control the situation but public pressure got him
the right decision is never the most popular one...i personally back them thought Collins was right and agreed with him....
we will look back on this and wish we had listened to Collins
both RAC and Savage are in over their heads..Collins knew this and tried to warn us and right the ship..and he was fired for it..
Quinn will be starting sooner rather than later...possibly this week and if we lose to cincy then for sure the following week
but hopefully the Quinn era starts sunday..get him all the experience we can..i'd rather have Quinn with 15 games under his belt going into next year with a bit of expereince'
who knows, Quinn just may tear it up..never know till ya try..all i expect out of him is "competent" qb play..long as he don't fumble the ball and throw 30 ints..i'll be fine with him..he will have his rookie mistakes, but he will also make some big plays for us
never thought i'd say this, but it's time for Quinn..the future is now
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Where r u getting this "Rumor" info from???
And BTW...If Savage is let go we're IDIOTS...Look at what this dude has done with this team in 2+ years...There is TALENT all over this roster...
Savage ain't goin' ANYWHERE...
Go Browns!!!
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#gmstrong
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Brady Quinn is set-up for SUCCESS with the talent on this Offense...
Couch WASN'T...Quinn IS...
David Carr is prolly sittin' there thinking to himself WHY didn't Houston give me what Cleveland's handing Quinn???
Franchise LT...Check
Solid Guards...Check
#1 WR...Check
STUD TE...Check
RB...Check
Go Browns!!!
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do you have any link to back up anything you just said??????
just curious, because that kind of came off as factual- and it goes against the majority of the opinion.
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Quote:
Specture
rumors are this meeting at 7 am will consist of Savage "Telling" Romeo..Quinn is our starter...Savage drafted him for that very reason anyways
don't give me this hoo about him not being ready, he will be fine
i personally didn't want Quinn in there, but after seeing "how bad" our QB situation is(Frye, Anderson) Savage really has no choice
if we don't win this year, Romeo will be gone, and so will Savage...Savage was allready told by Lerner that this is his "Last Chance" to either win some games, or you and Romeo are out of her...remember..Lerner was gonna fire savage 2 years ago, and axed John Collins instead
Collins said Savage mad a mistake with Romeo and Edwards and was advising Lerner to fire them both, but the fans(being dumb) got into a big uproar over it, and Collins was axed instead
Was Collins correct? did we make a mistake with Savage and Crennell?..we may have, and Collins was trying to damage control the situation but public pressure got him
the right decision is never the most popular one...i personally back them thought Collins was right and agreed with him....
we will look back on this and wish we had listened to Collins
both RAC and Savage are in over their heads..Collins knew this and tried to warn us and right the ship..and he was fired for it..
Quinn will be starting sooner rather than later...possibly this week and if we lose to cincy then for sure the following week
but hopefully the Quinn era starts sunday..get him all the experience we can..i'd rather have Quinn with 15 games under his belt going into next year with a bit of expereince'
who knows, Quinn just may tear it up..never know till ya try..all i expect out of him is "competent" qb play..long as he don't fumble the ball and throw 30 ints..i'll be fine with him..he will have his rookie mistakes, but he will also make some big plays for us
never thought i'd say this, but it's time for Quinn..the future is now
Speaking of mistakes... when we drafted a quarterback our first time around, the product on the field was completely miserable to start and the fans started clamoring for a change right away. We pulled the trigger Week Two. Now, Tim Couch is out of the NFL. The next time we spent a high pick on a quarterback, the product on the field was awful again and fans were clamoring for a change right away. We pulled the trigger early in the season. Now, Charlie Frye is mentally scarred. Do you really think that just because Quinn will win us a game or two it's a good idea to give into what the fans want because the product is so bad AGAIN and scar another QB against four Top 5 defenses? If he's ready, by all means. If he's not, we'd be fools.
As much as I WANT to see Brady start, I WANT to have consistency at the quarterback position more. I WANT to see a guy going out there when he's ready and develop into a guy that can end the turnstile at that position. If that means taking a few temporary lumps early in the year, so be it. If anything, I expect Savage to go into this meeting telling Romeo to hold off on Quinn. He realizes what putting him out there now might do to him.
If Quinn is ready and the coaching staff deems him to be so, I'd love to see him in there. If he's not, we CANNOT start him just because fans want to see their new toy before it's even off the assembly line.
We're... we're good?
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Wasn't RAC in place before Savage? Seriously, i didn't recall RAC being Savage's choice.
RAC was hired in Feb 2005 and Savage was hired a month prior.........other than that you're dead-on..... 
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Again. Thanks for the confirmation Don't make a habit of it. 
#gmstrong
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rumors are this meeting at 7 am will consist of Savage "Telling" Romeo..Quinn is our starter...Savage drafted him for that very reason anyways
How bout Phil saying this team has to rally and come out stronger next week? Quinn isn't coming in till the bye week.. if we don't win this year, Romeo will be gone, and so will Savage...Savage was allready told by Lerner that this is his "Last Chance" to either win some games, or you and Romeo are out of her...remember..Lerner was gonna fire savage 2 years ago, and axed John Collins instead
Before I say shut the----- up U have some quotes and a link to that? And U are totally offbase with that.. Collins said Savage mad a mistake with Romeo and Edwards and was advising Lerner to fire them both, but the fans(being dumb) got into a big uproar over it, and Collins was axed instead
Well thats justt a bold lie..Lerner/Collins were the ones who targeted Rac before PHIL DID.. Was Collins correct? did we make a mistake with Savage and Crennell?..we may have, and Collins was trying to damage control the situation but public pressure got him
No the mistake was U typing that nonsense. both RAC and Savage are in over their heads..Collins knew this and tried to warn us and right the ship..and he was fired for it..
No..Collins was on a power trip and wanted Phil to STAY IN THE OFFICE...thats where the dispute was not the crap you're trying to feed everyone.
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Give it up Mensa. At this point your drivel and stats are meaningless. We all watched the game.
Roll your eyes all you want, Menza hasn't defended Frye at all in this thread.
He stated that the bad QB play shouldn't and didn't trickle down, we just weren't very good. Can you come up with a logical arguement to that?
An arguement to what? Our O put a grand total of seven points on the board. Anderson was 13 for 28. Were there open WR's to throw to? Yes. Could he hit the broad side of a barn with a Shermen tank? No.
If you want to talk about "winning the game", I'll give you credit there. I don't expect our offense to put up 35 points to win a game,period. But if you want to talk about how many points we put on the board? For the most part,it was the fact that neither QB could throw the ball with any degree of accuracy. Sure,to have a well rounded offense,you need to be able to run the ball as well. But seven frickin' points? Yes,that IS on the QB's.
There were open guys for both Frye and Anderson. They just couldn't deliver. Frye got into his usual "deer in the headlights" mode. And Anderson was innacurate as hell. That's why we looked SO bad on O.
So yes,when your QB can't deliver the ball to open WR's? The "trickle down effect" is directly correlated to the scoreboard. I don't see how anyone can't see that.
For me.at this juncture,it's far more about putting a respectible showing on the field. 21 points would have at least have made it look like we belonged on the field. And the oppertunities were there. So say what you will. At some point we have to expect our coaching staff to have a team "prepared to play". And we weren't.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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An arguement to what?
It merely shows and proves what I said about both QB's..
They are what they are NO MATTER WHO STARTS...
All you want is for one to buy enough time to get Quinn in..
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Legend
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Could he hit the broad side of a barn with a Shermen tank? No.
and the sad part of that is .. the Sherman Tank could have been parked inside the barn with the barrell pointed at the broad side of the barn 5' away and he still would have managed to send the shell 5' wide .. *LOL* ...
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Frye got into his usual "deer in the headlights" mode. And Anderson was innacurate as hell. That's why we looked SO bad on O.
This was why I wanted Dorsey to stay..they liked Anderson's upside and his arm but what freaking good is upside if you DON'T KNOW HOW to use your skills?
Dude may NEVER EVER be able to read a coverage or CONTROL his arm..
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lol, Frye and Anderson would be the 2 best backup QB's in the NFL???
Your right that comment, it is funny, I think I should have said both are lucky just to be on any teams roster.
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My point in defending Menza is only that just because our QB play was bad, that's no excuse for others to play badly as well.
I was at the game and refuse to watch my tape. Without a doubt in my mind Frye looked horrible. He looked like he was afraid to run out of the pocket, even when he sat back there long enough to make a sandwich. From what I could see he was so inacurate on his throws it was painfully obvious he needed to get pulled.
Anderson was Anderson. He made a couple of really nice plays and followed them up with passes that were absolutely perfect, well perfect if you were a Steelers. I was praying that we would just run the ball because the chances of us turning it over would have been less.
All that doesn't excuse the recievers for dropping passes that were actually well thrown. It doesn't excuse the fact that we got burned on outside runs and we couldn't tackle to save our lives. It doesn't excuse Pool for being lost in pass coverage. It doesn't excuse Lewis for not taking care of the ball. it doesn't excuse the punter for dropping a snap. It also doesn't excuse all the penalties we committed on big plays for us like sacks and a first down on the only drive Charlie was able to put together.
We can blame the QBs for their terrible showing, they deserve it. We had no shot at even being competitive but we can't blame the QBs for the many other mistakes the other players on the team made. Don't get me wrong, if everyone else played mistake free, we still would have lost badly.
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We can't start Quinn now... we just can't. I know it's painful to have to watch Frye and Anderson stink it up on a regular basis, but it's a necessary evil. Our situation is one that we can't just plug a rookie quarterback in and suddenly everything is clicking on all cylinders and we're a contender - the problem spreads beyond. We need everything to shape up before we consider sacrificing another young QB.
What makes you so sure of this? You see,I'm unaware of how much or how little Brady knows of the playbook. How about you? In pre season,I DID notice players reacting and playing better for Brady than the other QB's. He has that leadership quality about him.
No,we won't be a "championship caliber team" but we certainly wouldn't be taking a step backwards either. We have playmakers in place. It's nothing like the Couch situation. Couch did NOT come from a pro style O. Our OL talent was MUCH worse then. The RB situation was much worse as well. There's no comparison there IMO.
Now I won't say that you're wrong here,because to a great extent you make a valid point. But none of us really know how much of the playbook Brady has down. Nor do we now if he's "ready or not". We're not on the inside. So it's pure speculation at best no matter which side of the fence you're sitting on this issue IMO.
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We throw Quinn in now and we run the risk of ruining his confidence and any ability he may have once possessed just like we did Couch, just like we did Frye.
Hold on there a minute big fella! Quinn was expected to go top 10. He sat there untill #22. Did that hurt his confidence? Nope! He was lambasted by the Cleveland media and much of the fan base for his hold out. He came into this with many people having a chip on their shoulder against him for this. Did that hurt his confidence? Nope!
He took a good bashing at Notre Dame against teams far better in many cases. Did that hurt his confidence? Nope! Some people falter in the face of adversity while others rise to the occasion and learn from it. From every indication I've seen,you're not going to "hurt his phsykie".
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Cincinnati - 30th
Oakland - 3rd
Baltimore - 1st
New England - 6th
Miami - 4th
Now, in comparison to after the bye week:
St. Louis - 23rd
Seattle - 19th
Pittsburgh - 9th
Baltimore - 1st
Houston - 24th
New York Jets - 20th
Buffalo - 18th
Cincinnati - 30th
San Francisco - 26th
Take a look at that. We face 4 top 6 defenses in 5 weeks. After that, we face 1 in 9 weeks. Now take a look at that again so it all sinks in.
It's all sunk in. Most of us have discussed this very thing infinitum. My point is,if and when he is "ready to play" where we are at on the scedule is meaningless. He's either ready,or he's not. If he is,you play him. That's why he's getting paid,to play.
He's going to have growing pains. And just to play devils advocate here,aren't playing BETTER defenses going to teach him more than playing against poor ones? Your scenario places him playing against poorer defenses in hopes it will help prepare him to play better ones next year.
Since coins seem so popular in the coaches office,the flip side of that coin is let him play against good defenses NOW,so he'll have a BETTER understanding of what to look for next year. He'll learn more by playing against them than he will watching someone else playing "poorly" against them.
The one basic key ingrediant is "if he's ready". If and when he is,where we are on our schedule will make absolutely no difference in wheather he plays or not. Only his readiness will be a factor.
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If we save Quinn until the bye, he a) learns the playbook and offense better b) develops better skills through practice and c) gets to avoid getting murdered by some of the best defenses in the NFL. If we use him before the bye week... well, let's just say that he may not make it past it in one piece. Let Frye and Anderson fall victim to the monsters beforehand and give Quinn a cushy part of the schedule to get used to things.
Once again,I like your thought process on the issue and tend to favor your line of thinking. But in a "perfect world" we would have a serviceable QB to play in the mean time. But in our world,we don't.
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As much as I want to see Quinn now, I want to see him leading us through the playoffs a couple years from now. I hope Phil and Romeo have the gumption to stay strong, because the odds of Quinn turning the franchise around versus those defenses are not nearly high enough for the risk involved.
I don't know about you all but, personally, I'm willing to suffer through 5 more miserable games so that we never have to see it again after this year.
I'm willing to,if Quinns NOT ready. If he is,he plays. You've made assumptions to arrive at your conclusions. You say "Let him learn the playbook". Once again,can you tell me how much of it he does or doesn't know compared to Anderson/Frye?
Develop "better skills" through practice? Exactly what pray tell does than mean? His mechanics,footwork? I'm not really sure it means much of anything. You have to have some actual tape of him playing NFL defenses in order to break down what he does need to work on. And since weekly practices are designed to game plan around the upcoming oponent,I don't see Brady learning much more untill he is thrown into the mix in these departments.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I still think that "crap runs downhill". And the QB is king of the mountain. I do agree with you that it's not the fault of the QB that others on the team played poorly. That's not a debateable point IMO.
But I do firmly beieve that when "you don't have a leader" it's hard to run an army. And it's hard to "be the leader of an army" when the president can't seem to make up his mind who's going to run the war.
This entire team,QB's included,looked just as indecisice on the field as RAC has been about who's leading this team from day one.
And it's not pretty.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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An arguement to what?
It merely shows and proves what I said about both QB's..
They are what they are NO MATTER WHO STARTS...
All you want is for one to buy enough time to get Quinn in..
Well,had he named one,supported one and prepared one? You might have one now.
But he didn't and we don't.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Wouldn't have made one freakin' bit of difference..had he named one of them a starter early in TC.
They both would play this way regardless...no one can convince me otherwise.
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...no one can convince me otherwise.
Nobody really cares to.
Most can see this was a disaster waiting to happen. Well,it happenned.
You are however convinced that a disaster happenned aren't you?
You just won't accept that RAC was a contributing part in the disaster. But more and more people are. They just needed to see a little more writing on the wall. but it's there. Some just refuse to read it.
So be it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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About starting BQ... I was watching one of the pregame shows ( in English too ) and Boomer was saying that a problem for Cinn. was the way it's " D " played so badly on the road ??????????? What ya think ?
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Nobody really cares to.
So? Can you or anyone else logically tell me something that sheds any proof to it?
First and foremost competition should bring out a players best attributes..
If you're going to say Frye's confidence was shaken..guess what?
Has his play from a year ago inspire any confidence?
Did his play in TC inspire any confidence?
He had a opportunity to silence everyone but was unable to .
His defencies OUTWEIGH his abilities..
What happened to those series where he looked good?
If everyone from the media and fans knew Pitt was going to zone blitz DIDN'T HE?
DA looked like himself..a mistake waiting to happen..
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We could have won today if we had a competent qb and a leader at the position.
BWAHAHAHA, Dude, get real. Your embarassing yourself.
I was just thinking the same thing about you.
I've started to respond to your nonsense a couple of times tonight but decided it wasn't worth it.
Ammo was handling you anyway. I think that KID has much more knowledge than you do. Hell, he called you out on it, and you didn't have much to say.
You're one of those guys like Mensa who is just blind to the obvious.
Yeah, you and Ammo are both really impressive. I sure it was Charlie's fault we had 4 penaltys and a fumbled punt on one play, and Charlie let the Pitt receivers get behind him to the tune of four TDs, and its Charlie's fault we didn't run the ball... Oh and he dropped passes and fumbled too, right. Boy you and Ammo really shamed me with your Football knowledge.
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I think Quinn can handle the Bengals defense... so if he starts... I wouldn't be that nervous...
if he doesnt start soon, and get some home game experience, the 2nd half of the season will be through... division games away are NOT the easiest to win.
I'd rather Quinn start against a team like the Ravens at home, then away.
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Wouldn't have made one freakin' bit of difference..had he named one of them a starter early in TC.
They both would play this way regardless...no one can convince me otherwise.
At the start of the season, you bet your ass it does, and no one can tell me otherwise, hell It's football 101. In the long run, no everyone and their brother already knows that Brady Quinn is the future.
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Well they did poorly against the run last year. 25th I believe against the run. I don't really see where they made any major upgrades in that department. But unless we come out fired up and ready,I don't think it will make much difference. Hopefully we can put up some better numbers,but if the team isn't "prepared to play" I think it will be a moot point. starting Quinn? That would require choosing between three QB's instead of two. That may require RAC to have two chairs in a room with a reord player playing Pop Goes The Weasel before that ever happens. That is still considered standard operating equipment to play musical chairs isn't it?  JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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What difference does it make if they are consistant in being inconsistant???
Had Frye been named starter EARLY..U think he woulda had a monster game against Pitt?
Would he have had better recognition???
U think the recievers woulda caught the ball better?
The Oline woulda blocked better?
Defense tackle better?
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Well to answer those that are asking for links, etc and what not...you won't find this info on the net anywhere
It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure all of this out.
Let me explain something to you. When Al Lerner died, Randy Lerner knew "nothing" about running an NFL franchise, nothing. So the NFL and Kraft(The Owner of the Patriots) decided to "help" Randy Lerner by giving him John Collins(who worked in the NFL Front office) to help Randy Lerner manage the team, perform all the duties of being an owner in the NFL, and to Advise Randy Lerner on courses of action he should take to help maintain a successful franchise.
John Collins 1st advise to Randy Lerner was to replace Butch Davis...but at the time, they simply did not have the "time" to find a suitable replacement that year, and hence they was stuck with Davis..but Davis would have been fired regardless.
Now as to Collins being on a power trip is a very false statement. Collins was more concerned with the way Savage was handling the duties of GM, his role in contract negotiations, and many other things in the terms of a "businesses perspective"....Savage pushed Collins out because Collins "questioned" some of Phil and Romeo's moves for example
Even though i hated Gerrard Warren, and so did many fans, Savage got rid of him "without" an adequate player of = or better value to replace him with. Collins was all about "success and winning" and Collins "questioned" if trading Warren for the measley pick we got out of him was the smart thing to do. Pretty much collins wanted to keep Warren for 1 more season "until" we signed someone such as Washington or what not to replace him which IMo is not unreasonable....instead we traded Warren for Jasin fisk and a 4th rd pick...which Savage then "wasted" on Trent Dilfer who didn't even start the whole year and was gotten rid of after Collins left.
Collins was try to keep a team that would have the "Best chance" of winning as many games as possible while still going through the rebuilding process in "stages" rather then just tearing everything apart all at 1 time...being even 1 spot lower in the draft say 4th instead of 3rd is a difference in "millions" of dollars...that was Collins point...and Savage didn't like it...Savage didn't like having a boss...he thought he should be "the man" even Ozzie Newsome had a boss while Model was alive the (Biscotti, a minor shareholder in the franchise)
Collins was trying to do what was best "for the team"...Savage wanted to do things his way..if you take off your Brown colored glass and get off Savage's bandwagon..you can clearly discern this.....Lerner has no idea what he was doing, Collins did, and Collins advised him correctly and the fans and Lerner botched it....
Actually Savage wasn't even Collins 1st choice....He wanted Mueller..but couldn't come to a reasonable "dollar amount" with him, so we wnet with Savage
but hey belive what you want, the proof is in the product on the field...which is lackluster at best
Im not
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It helps... but in the case of Frye and Anderson, I haven't ever had any faith in either one and wished we would have brought in a vet to help tutor Quinn, but that doesn't matter now. What matters is that because of our lack of QB talent I have a feeling Quinn will be rushed which is not the route I wanted to take, but with the speed the way Romeo pulled the trigger yesterday, who knows from here on out, each week is going to be speculation til Quinn is in.
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Quote:
Nobody really cares to.
So? Can you or anyone else logically tell me something that sheds any proof to it?
No. The Couch/Holcomb debacle shouldn't have taught any of us anything.
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First and foremost competition should bring out a players best attributes..
Yes,it's worked so well in the past.
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Has his play from a year ago inspire any confidence?
Did his play in TC inspire any confidence?
He had a opportunity to silence everyone but was unable to .
His defencies OUTWEIGH his abilities..
What happened to those series where he looked good?
If everyone from the media and fans knew Pitt was going to zone blitz DIDN'T HE?
DA looked like himself..a mistake waiting to happen..
Obviously you're as indecisive as RAC. Guess you'll have to withdraw your resume'.
How many coaches and QB contraversys will it take before you learn how destructive that process is? People are NOT alike! Some,open competition brings out the best in them. Some it only creates doubt. In MOST it only creates doubt.
Frye saw Quinn get drafted. He knew and knows his days are numbered. But he DID earn a starting QB role here untill Quinn was ready. He saw he had the oppertunity to shine in his last year as starter. Then? The games began. Half as many reps in practice. Far less starting time in pre season. The coin flip. The whole clusterpuck that will be a big part of RAC's legacy when all is said and done.
So his replacement was in the wings and now some guy who can't hit the broad side of a barn and went 0-3 while Charlie was hurt is suddenly "his competition"?
RAC couldn't make a coaching decision. A pretty BASIC coaching decision. ala Butch Davis. With very similar results to this point. If you don't see the pattern here,I can't help you.
It hurt the team when Butch did it and it's hurting our team because RAC did it.
The players on this team don't have a leader. They are in a constant state of flux because they don't hae a clue as to who's going to be behind center next. NO continuity will be developed on this team untill that is finaly cleared up. NONE!
So you play the "poor RAC didn't do anything card" if you must. But many can see right through that. Because it's a repeat of Butch Davis. Just another rerun that had very poor ratings the first time.
That's the proof. And what we saw yesterday only verifies it. But some just don't want to look at it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Pit - as much as I would like to see Quinn play just for the sake of watching someone other than Charlie and DA, I'm being realistic about it as well. Rookie quarterbacks have been historically autrocious. The scenario I'm hoping for is similar to what happened with Matt Leinart last year, where he came in halfway through and was ready to go. Still, even after half a year, he posted a QB rating of only 74.0. Peyton Manning, one of the greatest quarterbacks of this generation, started every single game as a rookie and only put up 71.2 (which was considered one of the best rookie QB performances to date). If all we're going to get is a marginal improvement over Frye or DA (if it's even an improvement), why risk it? We could easily end up seeing an Alex Smith disaster scenario instead, especially given the schedule.
This is all assuming that Quinn is even prepared. I don't think he knows the whole playbook yet because that's what Romeo and Phil say, so I'm going by their word. Quinn would be an improvement, but he's not going to make us better by enough to justify our throwing a young passer to the wolves. If Quinn is the most NFL ready quarterback to ever come out, he's still not going to be very good in the grand scheme of things if history is any indication. Try this out - find a list of all the quarterbacks that had time on the bench to learn and have succeeded. Now get a list of all those thrown in right away that have failed.
It's pretty clear - rookie QB success is almost always helped by extra time on the bench. We're awful already. Why should we put the future up at risk for a few games in the present?
We're... we're good?
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Collins wasn't and still isn't a football guy while Savage is. Collins is a business guy and if we would have kept him, it would have been a huge mistake and we probably wouldn't have drafted Joe Thomas this year, it would have been Calvin Johnson, so you can like the non football guy all you want, but I'll go with someone who has an actual background concerning the game of football, not some exec.
Trying to add Collins to this "blame game" is almost like trying to pull a rabbitt out of your ass.
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Rumors are that "Knight of Brown" is Roger Brown
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Quinn will start before the bye
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Seriously, i didn't recall RAC being Savage's choice.
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