DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2019 NFL Season 2019 NFL Draft Did we improve special teams?

Seemed like a good idea at 2:00am

Very worried about our kicking game, can’t go to the super bowl without a somewhat reliable kicker.

On the bright side we don't have to root for a rapist!

Well played.

Don’t look into Antonio Callaway’s time at Florida.

I've never had a problem reveling in my own ignorance. Thanks for the heads up

Nice. Callaway deserves a chance to make up for his mistakes.

It was the Steelers entitlement that made him a Rapist...if here he would be a high character guy...lol Homerism at its best

Very much so. They're hot garbage.




Yup, he definitely makes those two look better by way of lowering the bar.

Everytime I read

Did we improve special teams?

I want to say NO! but the kicking game is still an unknown, if somehow they find a kicker that hits at an NFL normal, plus, then we could say yes.

I also want to think Shehee Gueseppi is going to make the team as a return specialist, which would probably be an improvement

But then ask myself, if the NFL even allows kickoff and punt returns by rule anymore?
They changed the blocking allowed by rule since Cribbs played, and where the kickoffs start and the touchbacks place the ball, but then with Goddell as commissioner, who knows what the rules are, it's just change and change for changes' sake
change the overtime, change the extra point, change the definition of a catch, change the definition of a catch a 2nd time, don't allow celebration without penalty, watch every team celebrate in groups without penalty, Change what a block is, change where you can hit, don't allow a hit to a knee, make a pancacke block a personal foul, change if an offensive player can hit with their head while running with the ball outside of the hash's,
Change everything,

If they can improve special teams, good luck, if they can understand the rules, even better for them.

I’ve had a few weeks to think about it, yes bring Phil Dawson off the bench, I need reliable points.

We have the depth, I will not go another year leaving points on the field, cant do it again.

Looking for someone I can trust

All I can picture is a playoff field goal, and who I want out there.

I don't think we just used a draft pick to bring in competition for Joseph to all of a sudden sign Dawson.

I didn't mind drafting him. I didn't mind drafting Gonzo a few years ago.

My comment was in reply to Buck who wants to sign Phil Dawson

With no empirical evidence, just gut feeling, I see Siebert making the team about 70%, about 50% for Gillan, and about 20% for Sheehy.

That said, I think it would be cool if all came about. I've never been comfortable with Joseph. Having a punter with a cool nickname is, well, cool, especially if he can live up to it. And if Sheehy makes the team it will be because he truly impressed.

It's early but that's good to hear. By 'approach' I assume a coach spotted something in his technique....

I don't know what it was, but last year a lot of Joseph's successful kicks were iffy. Just inside the pole, barely helicoptering over the cross bar. Did not instill a lot of confidence, even when it was good.

I've said this before, but I think the NFL talent evaluators vastly underrate the importance of having a good kicker and even a punter.

Think about how many games come down to a kick or two. Think about how many games are decided by field position. Yet, most NFL teams rarely draft a kicker high and punters are an afterthought.

Consider how many times we have seen the following scenario play out. Missed kicks keep the game close. Time is winding down and a punter pins the opponent inside the 5 yard line. Not wanting to lose the game on a turnover, the offense proceeds w/caution and then punts it away, thereby providing the other team w/favorable field position. A couple of passes eat up chunks of yardage and out trots a FG kicker w/the entire game resting on his foot.

That would be correct. Just like a golfer needs to get aligned to the target, a kicker needs to do the same. If his "plant" foot doesn't get set in the same position nearly every time, he isn't going to strike the ball on the same point on his foot.

The plant foot also has a impact on direction. If the foot plants a little more open, the kicker tends to sweep through and around the ball hooking the ball left. If the foot plants a little more closed he will tend to push more to the right.

It's ok to do it either way, you just need to do it the same every time so you have a pretty good idea of where the ball is going to go.

Nice analogy.

Did we improve special teams?



Yes we did.

The thought of PD kicking for us, should speak to our uncertainty at the position.

I consider myself a bit of a WW2 buff, I fear we are quite vulnerable at a very important position. It gives me pause, it gives me trepidation.

I'll go on record saying I think our kicking situation is in good hands with Colquitt and Joseph. I would keep them both. Although I understand wanting to go with the guy you draft.

I also probably would have kept Parkey and Gonzalez.... so there's that.

PD is Phil Dawson.

I agree to an extent about the importance of having a good kicker, less so about a good punter.

A kicker is directly responsible for putting points on the board and this translates to wins more directly than more abstract metrics like field position (which also can be figured to have a certain expected point value, but field position is becoming relatively less valuable compared to possessions as offenses get more and more dominant.)

A kicker is also more fully responsible for his unit's performance than a punter is. It's true that there still has to be a good snap and a good hold, but this accounts for the success of a play less often than the coverage team does on a punt.

There are also kickoffs to consider. It's nice to have a guy who can consistently put it deep into or out of the end zone. This can nullify a dangerous kick returner, and saves wear and tear on the kickoff team.

Probably something like 40% of punts could be eliminated right off the bat if coaches just used proper 4th down strategy. So instead of 5 punts a game per team, using ideal game theory might get you down to 3 punts a game per team or thereabouts.. I'm sure the analytics nerds have it mathed out more precisely than that but that's close enough for our purposes.

Of course, I'm not opposed to having a good punter. I want good players at every position. It's more that as long as he's not terrible, and he can hold on kicks and function as a competent backup kicker if needed due to injury, I'm probably ok with the guy I have. It's always nice to upgrade but I'd prefer not to use a draft pick or devote much more than minimum salary to the position (which is the strategy most teams use..) whereas with kicker I could go more.

Maybe if there was a need at the position and a really good punter came out, I might begrudgingly use a 7th rounder.

A good punter is just as important. It just isn't a offensive position. It is a defensive position. Punters can flip a field.

They don't score points, but they can prevent points.

It all equates in to the final score.

Yup.... it's just been so long since we've been in a game that was a battle of field position, we may tend to forget, lol!

It's one of the things that intrigues me about the Scottish Hammer. Imagine we take a kick off and immediately go 3-n-out after gaining zero yards.

With his leg, with us snapping the ball from the 25, he can pretty much bury them inside their own 10. That's insane, and it helps our defense immensely!

I also think that in Colquitt we have a great Punter, but one who is 34 years old, and who costs a lot more than an UDFA.

I think the team is quietly hoping that Gillam can beat out Colquitt, because he offers a less expensive option, as well as a longer term solution at the P position.

Hammer might be best play option in a tight game. Good snaps are still a must. But wow! Never thought I would welcome the day a punt was your solid quick kick option for offense.
Crazy yardage.

j/c:

Before everyone dismisses Colquit, I want to reiterate that he is actually excellent at pinning teams deep inside their own territory and his punting actually helped us win games last year.

I agree, I like Colquitt. He is very good at killing punts with a nose down kick.

On the other hand, I like the sound of the "Scottish Hammer".

I know you don't pick football teams that way, but it sounds cool. Seriously, if the Hammer can actually kick anything like the legend that precedes, it could be a real Sidd Finch moment.

Agree.

I'm not usually concerned about "pinning teams deep".

The analytics are very clear. There are two situations that teams regularly screw up in this league on 4th downs:

- 4th and short (4th and 1 or less always, 4th and 2 sometimes), regardless of field position

- 4th down at midfield and somewhat beyond, for example at the opponent's 40 yard line

It's the second scenario that comes into play here. NFL teams are so stupid, seriously, it's mind-boggling how multi-billion dollar businesses still screw this up.

A typical scenario goes something like this: it's 4th and 5 at the opponent's 40 yard line, in comes the punt team (why??), he skies the punt, it lands beautifully at the 6 yard line, but due to the odd shape of a football and human reaction time being what it is, it tumbles into the end zone for a net 20 yard shift in field position.

The team could have just gone for it and kept possession nearly half the time on a short pass. Yet they voluntarily give the ball away and the other team gets the yardage back on one intermediate pass. So frustrating. I'd rather just have a dominant offense, get the big chunks of yardage ourselves, and only punt the ball away when it's actually intelligent to do so. Yet, I know the old-school, 3 yards and a cloud of dust, punt the ball away/play the field position game crowd will never understand this. Reminds me of the days that the Browns and Raiders had the best punters/kickers in the league yet rarely ever won more than 5 games.

JMHO, none of us are sure we'll be here tomorrow, and please note Butch Davis had a WINNING season....play to win. I have NO issue with Callaway returning punts- he's clearly a THIRD option in receiving....an outstanding third option, but third. Go Browns, win games.