DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Odell Beckham Jr. and Duke Johnson absent on 2nd day of OTAs

What did Freddie mean by that? Who knows? It's hard to get worked up about something where one can only project what was really meant.

Maybe Freddie meant that OBJ wouldn't be mentally (or physically) "into it" without following his complete, per-determined, off-season training program?

Maybe that's what he meant but it sure doesn't sound that way.

The writer compared it to Tom Brady? How long has Brady been with the Patriots? How familiar is Brady with the Patriots system?

See, while I don't think it's a huge deal, it's those huge reaches like that which make me see articles like this as nothing more than an excuse.

OBJ is with a new team, in a new system, with a new QB. The more time he's here, the more reps he gets with his new team, the better. I'm still far more concerned with the comments Freddie made than anything else.

He’s on a new team .... how much flexibility does it take to change your schedule ... and this isn’t about WORKING OUT what so ever ... i could care less about his workout schedule .... is this dude so mentally fragile or inflexible he can’t adapt to being in Cleveland for a week or two instead of cali? ... Gimma a break ...

Again ... this is no big deal what so ever .. we agree on that much .... but it is a dick move and its sellfish as all hell ... u and tabber are just making excuses for him .... its why tabb’s a homer ... ... love u tabber ... *L* ...

I’m not concerned with what Freddie said cause I expect things like this to come out regarding OBJ .... quite frankly I expect little outbursts like the ones that got him run out of NY periodically from OBJ .... its who he is ....

Not sure why u or anyone would expect anything different surrounding OBJ ... he’s been “different” since day 1 in this league ...

That sounds a lot harsher than its meant to be ,... Vernon said it in his OTA’s blurb .... he’s a better person than he is football player and a great teammate .... he checks those boxes in spades ...

but u also have to aknowledge he’s very emotional and sometimes has sideline outbursts where he takes things out on inanimate objects and runs his mouth to the press ...

U have to accept the entire package ... and some drama is part of that package with OBJ ..... IMO its WELL WORTH IT ... but u best be ready to accept it and deal with it ...

It's very well stated.

"skipping skippable workouts"
That sums it up.


Give a sports reporter a teaspoon of sand in their driveway and they will tell you how they climbed Everest.

Before giving the link that I think probably should be posted here I feel compelled to say that I haven't read this thread at all because I'm irritated by the premise of the thread. Not to be confused with being irritated by the poster.

I'm starting to like the site this article comes from. I just stumbled on to it halfway through draft season.
___________________________________________
Cleveland Browns: The Energy in Berea

Pete Smith
by
Pete Smith
1 day
Browns Energy in Berea

While much of the portrayal of the Cleveland Browns is a team that the team needs to deal with Odell Beckham Jr. and his attendance at Offseason Team Activities, the energy inside Berea is headed in a far more positive direction. There seems to be a real understanding of what this team's capable of this year and spearheaded by the players that lived through 1-31 as well as players like Baker Mayfield, it's a feeling that is proliferating the entire locker room.

The players are largely shielded from a contrived controversy largely because Baker Mayfield and Freddie Kitchens have been lightning rods for those questions, so the rest of the team doesn't really notice it, is going full steam ahead with preparing for the season.

Some local and national media are focusing on the Browns most polarizing player who is doing something that's a pretty common occurrence in the NFL. A lot of great players don't attend everyday or not at all, but if they're ready to go for the regular season, most players inside the locker room don't care. And to his credit, when Beckham is in the building, he's making a good impression, doing what he's supposed to do.


The more noteworthy part of OTAs this year are the players like new additions like Olivier Vernon and Sheldon Richardson as well as veterans who have been here like J.C. Tretter, Joe Schobert, Joel Bitonio, Chris Kirksey that are there everyday, showing the young players what it takes to be great in the NFL while also reinforcing the overall team message. And of course Baker Mayfield, but his presence can be overwhelming that it drowns everyone else out. Schobert, Bitonio and Kirksey haven't won anything yet, but they know they can be good. They know what it's like to work hard every day and lose every single game, so they aren't taking anything for granted.

A player like Chris Kirksey in particular has been on the Browns for five years and has rarely enjoyed team success despite giving everything to the organization, being the epitome of what the Browns would want their players to be. Even last year, Kirksey suffered a season-ending injury, so he didn't get to play in the second half of the season when the hard work paid off and the team starting breaking through in the win column.

Rookies are getting put in extra time because they see a talented team where playing time will be earned and they need every edge they can get. Making the team isn't a given this year for most of the draft picks.

This past year also represented a sea change in Cleveland where players didn't have to talk themselves into the idea that the Browns drafted them or going to the Browns meant going number one overall, so they wanted that. There are players who are actively rooting for the Browns to take them and like in the case of Greedy Williams, proclaimed the Browns were going to win the Super Bowl. Maybe he says the same thing if he's drafted by the Miami Dolphins or Arizona Cardinals.


The level of talent on the Browns has a few position battles where it's a contest between good options and some players trying to earn their next contracts, so they are there everyday to make sure they are as focused and prepared as possible. Even if the motivation can be self serving, the impact on the team is the same. It means another guy is in the building is working towards getting better and that energy is infectious.

Various elements of the media can focus on Odell Beckham's attendance to voluntary workouts as an easy way to draw attention to themselves, but the real story in Berea is the very real, very positive energy that is flowing through that building. The Cleveland Browns have much to prove this year, but they are starting off on the right foot to do just that.

Exactly.

That's why we read all the time things like "...with Landry watching on the sidelines..." during voluntary OTAs.

We don't need Landry taking reps from the guys who are fighting for the 5th or 6th spot during voluntary anythings. The exception is the FQB. The best way to evaluate those 5-6th guys is by having the stud QB throwing them the ball so we can see what they've really got.

Of course, that all changes during tryouts and getting ready for the Titans.

Your entitled to your opinion .... no clue how its not sellfish or a plain flat out dick move but your entitled to your opinion no matter how homerish or wrong it is ... ...

I said multiple times its no big deal bro ... not sure why u think i don’t get it .... i went out of my way to say its no big deal in the grand scheme of things multiple times ....

I’ll say it one last time .... on fall sundays it won’t matter one iota and thats all that matters but its still a sellfish dick move IMO ... and i have no clue how u can’t see that unless the brown and orange glasses are being influenced by the brown and orange kool-aid .... *L* ....

Witch BTW currently tastes as good as it ever has ... ain’t it great to have this man our team ... how fun is this gonna be bro? ..... FINALLY ....

I said multiple times its no big deal bro ... not sure why u think i don’t get it .... i went out of my way to say its no big deal in the grand scheme of things multiple times ....

So let me see if I got this right,
You do not see this as a big deal,is that correct?Or do I have that wrong?

That's a great article.

Jc....maybe some of us browns fans are stuck in OLD SCHOOL mode, thinking obj is a bit out of step with his practice protocol...

...I’m willing to give obj space..just so he is able to perform when it counts!

Let us help you get up to speed, then:

The NEW SCHOOL of focused training builds and periodization to get the body ready for a goal are FAR superior to the old school methods. The clueless hack approaches used in the old days for basic conditioning are no good for anything but that - basic conditioning.

Prp...it would seem that your comments might be better directed toward the Browns strength and conditioning staff...those running this “voluntary” work out program.

Seems that many franchises continue to operate in old school mode.

I’m willing to accept new methods as long as the players provide results on the field.

They do, with generic, generalized programs built to suit all players.
They are not specialized, tailored programs built to suit one SPECIFIC player at a specific position with a specific skillset.

And nobody needs to direct it to them, THEY know and understand all of this; folks that think that is the better way of doing things and that a player should skip their specialized training for the generalized stuff - now THAT who it needs to be continuously repeated to.

Hmmmm, I thought that's why they used position coaches. To work with each group of players according to their specific skill sets.

If you are talking about technique and teaching how to be a better WR, yes.

If you are talking about tuning the physical body, no.

A position coach is a technique coach who is going to primarily assist the OC in implementing the offense. They are NOT a trainer and I wouldn't trust any of them to put together a training build to get me into peak physical shape. It is two different aspects of the same world.

The Cleveland Browns currently employ five strength and conditioning coaches. Now maybe you don't think they know what they're doing. I'm not sure. But I think if you believe they don't know how to whip athletes into shape, I'm not sure why they're on the payroll.

Here's a bonus analogy:

I am actually a coach. I am a Crossfit Level 1 trainer. I can get work at any Crossfit facility in the world and I can teach and coach all of the movements in Crossfit. I can spot flaws in movement and techniques and give the athletes coaching and cues to improve how they move. I can do this for the basic bodyweight movements, the gymnastics movements, powerlifting, and even the Oly lifts. I can and will take you from being a complete novice to being competent with all of these. However, I do this in a class setting and I am working with and coaching anywhere from two to ten people at a time.

However, the better someone is and the smoother they are with their movements, the more they need a more specialized coach. One of our athletes who happens to also be one of our coaches wanted to get better at her Olympic lifts -- so, she found a coach that specializes in those lifts. So, not only is she getting more specialized knowledge, but she is now in an environment where instead of sharing time with a coach and hoping the coach is looking at her during each lift to look for flaws, she has 1-on-1 coaching where she has the coach's full focus.

I am like the teams position coaches. The people that OBJ works with are like her specialized coach. OBJ is getting much more detailed, 1-on-1 coaching with immediate feedback and because he isn't sharing his time with 24 other guys at the same time, he is getting his work done in a shorter amount of time which lends itself to shorter days, increased recovery, better efficiency and he is doing it near his home - which that itself has great value.

I do believe they know how.
I do NOT believe that they have the latitude or intent to give each player a fully, completely individualized program during voluntary OTA's, especially a new player who they have zero familiarity with.

Not taking sides here, but I agree w/Purp that a more individualized workout is far superior to any group workout.

I don't claim to know how often OBJ works out or how good his trainer and program are, but from my experience, Purp is exactly right.

I don't know anything about his workouts, either, but when a guy performs at the level he does, he gets the benefit of the doubt. It's a "whatever it is you're doing, it's working, I don't want to mess that up" kinda thing.


And for anyone who then wants to ask "then why doesn't everyone do this?"...

Well, not everyone is an OBJ. That's why.
Not everyone on the OLine got to take regular days off and sit on the sidelienes during camps, but not everyone is Joe Thomas. He was on another level and knows himself well enough that the coaches trusted him to be doing what is best for him, which is what is best for the team.

True, absolutely anyone and everyone can and will benefit from a tailored training program. Guaranteed.
However, the distinction comes when you talk about the more elite players. If your OTA stuff is just general drills and conditioning, other than putting in some face time for the media, it has little to no REAL value in terms of what you gain for the elite players (what the media & public thinks of you counts for precisely Zero, by the way), and during that time, you've now lost days from your regular program. Those lost days can interrupt planned progress within a training cycle. The more middle of the road guys, and especially the borderline guys or the guys fighting for a position, THEY are the ones that need the OTA's the most.

Prp...obj does get the benefit of a doubt as long as the benefit shows on the field of play...just prove yourself, obj

imo if OBJ wanted to quiet the critics, all he had to do is show up for those short meaningless practices. Hang out, run some drills and viola, all that noise goes away. OBJ not showing up now puts him in a bad light and forces unnecessary distraction for a rookie headcoach. I think this was handled poorly but in the grand scheme probably won't affect the regular season. Purely optics at this point.

Except that you're assuming that OBJ and Kitchens actually care about the squawking of a few people that don't matter, or that there was anything to handle in any way.

It is, literally, a non-issue blown up into being an issue, but only in the minds of a few. It isn't actually a thing that matters, at all, to anyone that matters (e.g. the coaches and players).

Hell, the only reason we're talking about it at all is because there's nothing else to talk about right now.

BINGO +1

True, my point is care or not. He could have done well for himself and coach by just showing up to the 3 day bbq. Like I said in the grand scheme it means very little. I think more of it has to do with me wanting all the negative press on the dude to go away. He got that over scrutinization. In NY. I want him to have peace here and just stay focused on football.

We are entering the down cycle of the NFL so reporters are always looking to stir up something out of nothing. Summer is here and between now and the start of camp NFL reporters will jump on every little thing. Camp is where this team will be made or broken.

True, but there is a hell of a lot more to the OTA's than working out. They are showing the guys the beginnings of the new O and D install. Of course, they just send it to OBJ and he can study it himself at home. Just pointing out there are some additional aspects of the OTA's besides the physical training.

Come on guys the guy run routes. He will run them the same way he always has and he had practice time with Baker before he was even a Brown so it's not like they don't have some chemistry. The only thing that will change for him is the verbage and that won't be that hard for him to pick up.

He already has his own insane workout routine he has been doing for years that is far tougher than the ones in OTA's. He didn't go to the Giant's OTAs either because he felt they weren't intense enough to get him ready.

This is just him doing his thing that he has always done. I wouldn't get worked up over it until he misses mandatory practices.

I don't care what he misses if he doesn't have to be there.

Oh, no doubt, but it's not going to be anything substantial or critical.
That will be saved for when the mandatory stuffs starts, and as a veteran he will get up to speed quickly on any little minutia he wasn't here for. They aren't going to leave their players in a knowledge deficit during a voluntary period.