Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
V
Legend
OP Offline
Legend
V
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Quote:
Man who threatened to kill ‘as many girls as I see’ because he was repeatedly rejected set to be spared jail

The Independent Zamira Rahim,The Independent 9 hours ago


A man who threatened to murder “as many girls” as he could see may escape a jail sentence, despite pleading guilty to a charge of attempted threat of terrorism.

Christopher Cleary wrote a detailed Facebook post about how he planned to become “the next mass shooter” in January 2019.

The 27-year-old described himself as a virgin who had never had a girlfriend.

He also said he wanted to make the fact that so many women had turned him down “right” by going on a shooting spree, according to documents filed by Provo Police.

Cleary was arrested on 19 January after publishing the Facebook post.

Cleary then struck a deal with Utah prosecutors, pleading guilty to a reduced criminal charge.

Attempted threat of terrorism is a third-degree felony, punishable by up to five years in prison.

But Utah prosecutors agreed to recommend him for probation, despite his extensive criminal record.

A judge will decide whether or not to accept the deal at a hearing on Thursday.

The 27-year-old has been accused of stalking multiple times, with at least eight alleged victims contacting the authorities about his behaviour since 2012, according to police and court records.

He was on probation following a marijuana conviction in 2016 when he was charged with stalking two teenagers he had met online.

Cleary was put on probation for the stalking cases but in 2017 was charged with stalking and harassing his case worker.

In 2018 judges in Jefferson County, Colorado sentenced him, once again, to probation for all three stalking cases.

In one of the cases a 19-year-old woman said she lived with Cleary for a fortnight in a hotel room.

She said that he strangled and urinated on her during that time, court records show.

Cleary was out on probation for the three cases when he was arrested in a McDonald's in January, after publishing his Facebook post.

Pam Russell, a spokeswoman for the Utah’s county prosecutor’s office, said once the case was concluded Cleary would be returned to Colorado.

Prosecutors in Denver will seek to revoke his probation and send him to prison in relation for the stalking and harassment cases, she added.

“All I wanted to be was loved,” Cleary wrote in his Facebook post.

“Yet no one cares about me, I’m 27 years old and I’ve never had a girlfriend before and I’m still a virgin, this is why I’m planning on shooting up a public place soon and being the next mass shooter cause I’m ready to die.”

It is unclear how truthful the Facebook post was, as at least two of Cleary’s accusers have said they had a sexual relationship with him.

Some news reports have speculated that Cleary could be part of the “incel movement”, which promotes the misogynistic idea that men are entitled to have sex with women.

But a Colorado police detective, who investigated two accusations against the 27-year-old, said there as no evidence he was part of the movement.

“I truly think he’s just wired differently,” he said.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/man-threatened-kill-many-girls-141138663.html


Seriously? Why isn't this guy locked up in a mental hospital. Oh yeah, we don't want to fund those anymore and just turn these people loose because they didn't actually commit a crime.

Wake up, America!

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
These beta males are becoming more pathetic by the minute.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

- Theodore Roosevelt
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,250
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,250
This guy's going to hurt someone. Any forensic psychologist worth his weight would nail him on is sexual sadistic pattern of behavior and get the maximum sentence.


And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir

#GMSTRONG
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
C
~
Legend
Offline
~
Legend
C
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
Incels are such women

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
V
Legend
OP Offline
Legend
V
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
I have tried to talk about this on various threads, but we are raising them. We're almost nurturing them. We trot accommodation after accommodation while they are in Elementary and Middle School and then are surprised when twist off in high school or in adult life after the accommodations stop.

I know you are in the field and I mean no offense, but we truly need to take a deep look at our psychological philosophies in how we deal w/our troubled youths. I believe we have reached the crisis stage and this is a true epidemic.

The elephant in the room is how do we balance empathy, understanding, nurturing, etc while protecting the general population and getting the troubled youths the help that they really need?

The real answers are going to make a lot of people uncomfortable. It is my belief that is the very reason we haven't yet addressed these issues.

This dude should be removed from society. I understand that is harsh and maybe even mean. But, come on...........look at what he is saying. He is a dangerous person and young females will be his targets.

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979
T
Legend
Offline
Legend
T
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979
I wouldn't usually say this in this type situation, but after reading that, sounds like this guy needs to be locked up, for safety of society.

I mean how many people say they are going to be mass you know, and he's stalked 8 different people in his past, including his parole type case worker.
Wake up! Wake the freak up, one person once told me suicide and later did, ... don't give this guy a chance to be a mass shooter after he said so. What the blank.

If you stalk 8 different people, you're a time bomb, who's putting this guy on parole.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
C
~
Legend
Offline
~
Legend
C
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
I think alienation plays a large role in most school shooters and work place violence. Where people feel like they have no free will, and they're destiny is to be in the place where there at. I think the problems with incels (involuntary celibate) are vastly different and only semi-related.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
V
Legend
OP Offline
Legend
V
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
I don't think this has anything to do w/the incel movement. I think the dude is whacked and a danger to society. I think assigning broad labels to such behavior is part of the problem.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
C
~
Legend
Offline
~
Legend
C
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I don't think this has anything to do w/the incel movement. I think the dude is whacked and a danger to society. I think assigning broad labels to such behavior is part of the problem.


I don't think there is an incel movement. I think that's part of the problems with incels, inability to create interpersonal relationships. I think ignoring the incel aspect is a bit shortsighted, especially in cases based around rampant misogyny. I think oversimplifying the problem is extremely dangerous. This guy isn't a threat to society, he's a threat to women in society. When he targets someone, they won't resemble the majority of this forum. If we're too afraid to admit that or are too self involved with our own victimhood, then we'll never get a real answer.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,250
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,250
Quote:
I know you are in the field and I mean no offense, but we truly need to take a deep look at our psychological philosophies in how we deal w/our troubled youths. I believe we have reached the crisis stage and this is a true epidemic.


It was inevitable. Just research "deinstitutionalization" to see how the liberal minds of the time (late 70's) shut down the "inhumane" state hospitals and residential mental health facilities and funneled the patients into unlocked group homes and community outpatient mental health centers. Also, over the last 20-30 years, a lot of the mental health resources were diverted to substance abuse treatment, and in many areas the agencies were combined. The reasoning behind this was that local levies for mental health always seemed to pass, and mental health agencies were also well funded with state and federal money. Substance abuse facilities and resources did not get that kind of support. With the current drug epidemic, you can guess where the money's going. Granted there's a connection between mental illness and substance abuse and many of the folks are dually diagnosed, but I think it was a big mistake to treat them as one and the same.

It's a shame, but we'll never again see the larger scale locked mental health facilities that you're suggesting. I could ramble on about this for days.


And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir

#GMSTRONG
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,458
T
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
T
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,458
This dude really needs a girlfriend...


I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,850
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,850


I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 16,198
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 16,198
I’m pretty sure this guy will get his hands on a gun fairly easy.


"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
V
Legend
OP Offline
Legend
V
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Will you please stop w/the constant insults directed towards me? Please?

I want to have a conversation about this topic and the insults prohibit that. I also think it would be best for you and I to simply ignore one another.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
C
~
Legend
Offline
~
Legend
C
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
I didn't insult you.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
V
Legend
OP Offline
Legend
V
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Good post and I think the Deinstitutionalization movement deserves it's very own thread, especially because how that has led to so many more homeless people.

You have knowledge in this field, so what do you think about the claims I have made in how the psychology field has chosen to deal w/our emotionally troubled youths? Do you think--like many of us educators do--that their "treatment" plans are actually nurturing poor behavior? Or, do you think their methods are actually helpful?

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,259
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,259
If he was constantly insulting you, can you point to a few instances in the post ? Explain like I'm 5 if you wish smile


#gmstrong
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
V
Legend
OP Offline
Legend
V
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Thanks for the offer, but I would prefer to talk about the thread topic.

Do you have any thoughts on that?

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Originally Posted By: Tyler_Derden
This dude really needs a girlfriend...

I would fear for her safety.


yebat' Putin
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
C
~
Legend
Offline
~
Legend
C
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Originally Posted By: Tyler_Derden
This dude really needs a girlfriend...

I would fear for her safety.


Women cannot teach nor should they teach men how to respect women. If he can't see them as humans and only objects he wants to have sex with or ones that will coddle him, an intimate relationship won't change that idea for him.

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,259
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,259
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Thanks for the offer, but I would prefer to talk about the thread topic.

Do you have any thoughts on that?


I have several thoughts, I'd love to talk about them.

However, I'm hesitant to make them in this thread. I'm hesitant to do so because I'm afraid if I speak my mind and you disagree with my thoughts, you may claim I'm insulting you without evidence, such as you did with CHS here. I'm afraid if I don't conform to your personal view, that you would attack my character instead of rebutting.

I found no single instance, not one, in CHS's post, of him insulting you personally. I gave you the benefit of the doubt, however. I asked you, directly, what he did that insulted you. Instead of discussing that, you deflected. Will you claim I'm insulting you through this very post? I have no idea. If I am insulting you, perhaps you can let me know?


#gmstrong
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
V
Legend
OP Offline
Legend
V
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
So, don't comment. But, I am not going to fight w/you.

Moving on...

I do want to try and go back to the thread topic. I find some of these things disturbing.

Quote:

--A man who threatened to murder “as many girls” as he could see may escape a jail sentence, despite pleading guilty to a charge of attempted threat of terrorism.

--Christopher Cleary wrote a detailed Facebook post about how he planned to become “the next mass shooter” in January 2019.



--He also said he wanted to make the fact that so many women had turned him down “right” by going on a shooting spree, according to documents filed by Provo Police.

--The 27-year-old has been accused of stalking multiple times, with at least eight alleged victims contacting the authorities about his behaviour since 2012, according to police and court records.

--Cleary was put on probation for the stalking cases but in 2017 was charged with stalking and harassing his case worker.

--In one of the cases a 19-year-old woman said she lived with Cleary for a fortnight in a hotel room.

She said that he strangled and urinated on her during that time, court records show.

--“All I wanted to be was loved,” Cleary wrote in his Facebook post.

“Yet no one cares about me, I’m 27 years old and I’ve never had a girlfriend before and I’m still a virgin, this is why I’m planning on shooting up a public place soon and being the next mass shooter cause I’m ready to die.”

It is unclear how truthful the Facebook post was, as at least two of Cleary’s accusers have said they had a sexual relationship with him.


How are they even suggesting probation? How is this guy not a menace to society and women in particular? Why wait until he really hurts someone before we act?

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,438
E
Legend
Offline
Legend
E
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,438
You cant apprehend people for a crime, until they actually commit a crime.

Hating women who wont sleep with you isnt a crime.

It just makes him a creepy sad person.


No Craps Given
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
V
Legend
OP Offline
Legend
V
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
I don't know about that, Eve. It could be construed as an act of terrorism. The article even addresses that. However, even if you are right, perhaps it would be wise to put him under psychiatric care.

This goes back to what jfan posted.

The dude is a ticking time bomb. Our movement [money driven] to shut down mental health facilities is having negative consequences on our society.

I'm not asking you to agree, but that is my stance.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,438
E
Legend
Offline
Legend
E
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,438
Thats not how the law works. You cant be arrested for being a hateful weirdo.


No Craps Given
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
V
Legend
OP Offline
Legend
V
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Eve, did you read the article?

Let me post this part again:

Quote:


A man who threatened to murder “as many girls” as he could see may escape a jail sentence, despite pleading guilty to a charge of attempted threat of terrorism.

Christopher Cleary wrote a detailed Facebook post about how he planned to become “the next mass shooter” in January 2019.

The 27-year-old described himself as a virgin who had never had a girlfriend.

He also said he wanted to make the fact that so many women had turned him down “right” by going on a shooting spree, according to documents filed by Provo Police.

Cleary was arrested on 19 January after publishing the Facebook post.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,438
E
Legend
Offline
Legend
E
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,438
Being detained for questioning and being prosecuted are two different things.

Again, he hasnt broken a law yet.


No Craps Given
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
V
Legend
OP Offline
Legend
V
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
I thought you said he couldn't be arrested? Sorry, I must have misread it. I didn't realize you said he couldn't be prosecuted.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,438
E
Legend
Offline
Legend
E
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,438
Cry me some tears about words.

Its not against the law to be a creepy hateful weirdo.


I can tell you this from my time working for the feds.

You can be satan, but unless you break a law, they cant throw you in jail and keep you there.


No Craps Given
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
V
Legend
OP Offline
Legend
V
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Cry me some tears? The dude was arrested. You said he couldn't be. Stop lying.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
V
Legend
OP Offline
Legend
V
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
For information purposes only:

Quote:

Terrorist Threat Laws and Penalties

Lawmakers and courts have long recognized that some damaging or dangerous forms of speech should be prohibited. Making a terrorist threat is one such form of speech that is prohibited.

By Mark Theoharis

Freedom of speech is a constitutionally protected right, and one widely regarded as an essential liberty in American life. However, this freedom is not a blanket protection that encompasses every possible instance, manner, and quality of speech. Lawmakers and courts have long recognized that some damaging or dangerous forms of speech should be prohibited. Making a terrorist threat is one such form of speech that is prohibited.

What Defines a Terrorist Threat?

Making a terrorist threat, sometimes known as making a criminal threat or by similar language, is a crime in every state. People make terrorist threats when they threaten to commit a crime that would reasonably result in death, terror, serious injury, or serious physical property damage.

Not all threats are criminal, and not all threats are considered terrorist threats. Though state and federal laws on terrorist threats differ widely, they typically include several common elements.

Threats. A person usually makes a terrorist threat verbally or in writing, but the threat does not have to be explicit nor expressed in a written or verbal format. A person can make a terrorist threat through innuendo or even body language. Some courts have ruled that a person can be convicted of making a terrorist threat if a reasonable person could conclude that the person's actions under the circumstances conveyed a threat to commit violence. However, some state laws specifically require that a person make a verbal statement; body language or non-verbal communications are not enough in those states.

Specificity. While a person can make a terrorist threat through innuendo or non-verbal communication, the threat itself must specifically threaten death, serious injury, or serious property damage. It doesn't matter that the person making the threat fails to specify a method. Also, a threat doesn't have to specify the time when the attack might take place. Any threat involving a present or future attack is sufficient.

Reasonability. The threat a person makes must be reasonable in order to qualify as a terrorist threat. For example, you cannot commit a terrorist threat if you threaten to destroy the state capital by ordering your alien army to do it for you. A reasonable person must be able to conclude that the threat is credible. If you never intended to commit the crime, that's no defense--it's sufficient for a conviction that someone else might reasonably believe that you did.

Terror. Though many states criminalize making a “terrorist” threat, it isn't always necessary for the person's threat to cause someone else to experience fear or terror. The actions of the accused are what determine whether a crime has been committed, and it is not always dependent on the emotions of others. In some states, however, making someone afraid or terrified as a result of your threat is enough to make it a terrorist threat.

Terrorist Threat Penalties

Defendants convicted of making terrorist threats face a range of possible penalties. Some states categorize the crime as either a misdemeanor or a felony, or both, depending on the nature of the circumstances. The penalties involved for a terrorist threat typically include one or more of the following:

Incarceration. Anyone convicted of a misdemeanor offense for making a terrorist or criminal threat faces up to one year in a county jail. For a felony conviction, a court can impose a prison sentence of a year or more. Depending on the state and the nature of the threat, a conviction for making a terrorist threat can result in a prison sentence of 40, and even 100 or more years in prison.

Fines. Fines for making a terrorist threat vary widely. Some states impose no minimum fine, while others impose minimum fines of as little as $200 or as much as $10,000. Maximum fines for making a terrorist threat can exceed $250,000.

Restitution. Courts may also order a person convicted of making a terrorist threat to pay restitution. Restitution is similar to a fine, but instead of paying it to the state, the convicted person pays restitution to the victims of the terrorist threat in order to compensate them for any damages they suffered as a result of the crime.

Probation. In misdemeanor cases, and even in some felony cases, a court can sentence a person convicted of making a terrorist threat to a probation term. The length of the term differs widely, but typically lasts 6 months or more, depending on the circumstances of the case and state sentencing rules. Courts may also order probation after the defendant has served a jail sentence, and may also require the convicted person to pay a fine or restitution.

Being accused of making a terrorist threat is a very serious charge. Anyone facing such a charge should consult an experienced criminal defense attorney as soon as possible. Because of the seriousness of the offense and the wide difference in how states approach the crime, you need to find an attorney who not only knows the details of the state law and court cases surrounding it, but one who has experience dealing with the local courts, judges, and prosecutors.

https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal/Terrorist-Threat.htm


Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,438
E
Legend
Offline
Legend
E
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,438
Cry some more tears. Is he being prosecuted? Is he accused of an actual crime and sitting in jail and awaiting trial?

No, he is just some misogynist who cant get laid.

Boohoo.

There are worse people in this country than this guy, who commited actual crimes that havent been prosecuted.

I'm sorry he gives you a mental breakdown.


No Craps Given
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
V
Legend
OP Offline
Legend
V
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Eve, I am not crying. But, I get why you resorted to this type of post. Have a nice night.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,438
E
Legend
Offline
Legend
E
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,438
I have no doubt you fabricated some reason in your head.


Bye.


No Craps Given
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
C
~
Legend
Offline
~
Legend
C
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
Yeah, terrorist threats is mainly a misdemeanor. I had a friend arrested for terrorist threats because he joked " i plan on shooting up x. pass this around to see the affect it has. to see if i get arrested."on his Tumblr account.
He ended up in jail for 6 months, because he couldn't make bail and was sentenced to time serve and a ban from social media and two Georgia counties because of it. So yeah, you can't hold someone for years or decades because they said something stupid.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
V
Legend
OP Offline
Legend
V
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
What do you mean by saying "yeah?"

She clearly said that you can't be arrested by making such threats. That's not a "yeah." It's a "no."

The freaking dude was arrested.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
C
~
Legend
Offline
~
Legend
C
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
What do you mean when you said I insulted you?

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
V
Legend
OP Offline
Legend
V
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
I was wrong. You are a great guy who never tries and starts fights w/me.

However, what does that have to do w/what Eve said?

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
C
~
Legend
Offline
~
Legend
C
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
That very rarely are misdemeanors prosecuted.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
V
Legend
OP Offline
Legend
V
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
That isn't what she said. She said they could not be arrested.

Look, I get it.

I hope others do, as well.

I am trying to have a discussion about what we should do w/people who have emotional issues and how they might resort to criminal acts and how do we address this issue.

You and Even would rather make this another personal issue. Fine. You win...........again.

Page 1 of 2 1 2
DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Well...You Know...Because Guns Are the Problem

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5