DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Abortion Battle part 2

From my understanding God didn't bless you with a vagina. So I don't think you'll ever have to make the decision whether to have an abortion. Neither do any of these other men telling women what to do on the topic.

Pfft... 'God' blessed me with many vaginas in the day and I never had to decide either.

I just wonder how many men would be comfortable with having their gender be as equally responsible.

Let's say for example, any man that falls behind in his child support, no matter the circumstances, be immediately castrated.

I mean you may have lost your job for no fault of your own, much like a woman who is raped or a victim of incest, but you are not living up to your responsibility and burdening society by having to support your child.

Or are only women to be subject to having the responsibility here?

Sadly, we know the answer.

Blood Thirst. It is a terrible thing!

Finally! Was just hoping Westboro Church would chime in to resolve how we should dress the handmaidens! smh

Why don't more people stand up for the mans right to choose? It's his child just as much at it is the mothers, yet if he wants to raise the child he is forced to sit by and watch his child be murdered. I also have no problem with making men be responsible for the children they are responsible for even if they don't want to.

Not his body. If true love is there and there is a relationship, then he should be involved in the decision. But the final say should always be the female.

Yeah let’s give those rapists their rights to the fetus now? Men controlling woman again. Pfft

You know what, on second thought, it’s now possible to transfer the fetus to the father’s body to be carried to term. And the civil courts can force a rapist to have this procedure done as well. Problem solved. Ok men, who can we control next?

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/44...ortion-coverage

Thought this was very good ... I've seen very little of Gillibrand but she seems intelligent and articulate.

"The debate over whether or not women should have reproductive freedom has turned into a red herring debate," she said. "And what happens on Fox News is relevant because they talked about infanticide for 6.5 hours before President Trump's State of the Union, they mentioned in 35 times. That's not what the debate of what access to care is about in this country. It doesn't happen, it's illegal, it's not a fact. And I believe all of us have a responsibility to talk about facts."

She is right - infanticide is the bright shiny light that those on one side are trying to distract with. Same old methodology.

Thanks...They tried so hard to stop her from saying that. More proof FOX news doesn’t really care about talking about real news and facts. Only about protecting their orange orb in the WH

The baby she kills is not HER body either.

There is a word for women controlling men>






Marriage

Yeah, the funniest thing about the Alabama abortion ban is that they lead all the states in infant mortality. 99% of the pro birth movement doesn't even foster kids nor adopt American children. Their movement is entirely about policing people.

We’ve gone over this GM. It not a baby. It’s an embryo or fetus.

First off. I’ve never met a guy that didn’t support the abortion their partner chose.

Secondly. Why would you want to force a guy, or a woman, to raise a child they didn’t want? I find that crueler to the child than aborting a fetus.

To be fair there are undoubtedly some instances when the father would choose to have the baby rather than an abortion - and the mother would choose otherwise.

However that is a TINY % of the overall ... why would we get distracted with that. Lets focus on the 95%+ ....

As to someone else's comment above - I'd feel much more comfortable and feel like the "other side" of the debate was genuinely caring about humanity and humankind if they put as much effort into caring for, supporting, funding the very young and the very poor that end up as (quite probably) unsuitable parents .... doing something for real babies that are already in the world and - based on statistics - likely destined for a life of hardship, poverty, under achievement and crime .... and in all likelihood, destined to recreate the problem of unwanted pregnancy later in their lives.

And maybe there are organizations that do both - but what I see mostly is a zealous intent to prevent others choosing abortion .... and then little to no interest in what happens to the children you then force into the world with the adoption of anti-abortion legislation.

Oh, it's worse than that.......

How can US rapist win joint custody of victim's child?

Many are incredulous that Christopher Mirasolo, 27, could be granted parental rights after a DNA test established his paternity.

The victim's lawyer said the case was set in motion after her client received child support from the state.

The case is thought to be the first of its kind in Michigan and maybe the US.

Attorney Rebecca Kiessling filed objections on Friday after Judge Gregory Ross ruled that Mirasolo had parental rights to the boy, who is now eight years old, reports the Detroit News.

Judge Ross also provided Mirasolo with the victim's home address.

The woman, who now lives in Florida, has been told to move back to Michigan.

Judge Ross also ordered Mirasolo's name to be added to the birth certificate without the mother's consent, her attorney added.
What's the case's background?

A 21-year-old woman told police Mirasolo forcibly raped her while holding her captive when she was 12 in September 2008.

The victim's ordeal began when she, her 13-year-old sister and a friend sneaked out of their house to meet an older boy and his friend, Mirasolo, who was 18 at the time.

Mirasolo held them captive for two days before releasing the older sister in a park.

He was arrested a month later when the woman became pregnant, Ms Kiessling added.

The charge is a first-degree felony in Michigan, but Mirasolo instead received a plea deal from the Sanilac County Prosecutor's Office for attempted third-degree criminal sexual conduct.

He was sentenced to one year in county jail, but only served six-and-a-half months before he was released early to care for his sick mother.

In 2010, he sexually assaulted another victim between the ages of 13 and 15 and was jailed for four years, according to the Michigan Department of Corrections.

Mirasolo was released in March 2012 and is a registered sex offender.

His supervision conditions include having a "responsible adult" present if he is with a minor.
How could this happen?

According to Ms Kiessling and the victim, the case was prompted after the mother sought child support.

Mirasolo's attorney, Barbara Yockey, told the Detroit Free Press that her client "never initiated" the custody case.

She said it was "routinely done by the prosecutor's office when a party makes application for state assistance".

"Chris was notified of the paternity matter and an order of filiation was issued last month by the court saying he had joint legal custody and reasonable visitation privileges," she said.

Ms Yockey said her client has not suggested he planned to act on his parenting rights and he had no scheduled court appearances.

"I don't know what his plans or intentions might be regarding any future relationship with the child," she said.

Ms Kiessling said the case violates the Rape Survivor Child Custody Act, which allows courts to dismiss the parental rights of convicted rapists over a child conceived as a result of rape.
What is the Rape Survivor Child Custody Act?

The law, championed by the Obama administration in 2015, gave states access to more funding for victims of sexual assault if they allowed courts to terminate the parental rights of an individual found to have committed rape against another person that resulted in the conception of a child.

About 5% of rape victims ages 12 to 45 become pregnant as a result of rape, according to the American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology. A version of the law exists in 43 states and the District of Columbia, but the measures vary from state to state.

In 20 states and the District of Columbia, a rape conviction is required before termination of parental rights is allowed.

Critics argue this leaves victims vulnerable in cases that are not prosecuted.

Seven states have no laws barring rapists from asserting their parental rights over a child.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41556542

No, it's really not.

That whole decision was rescinded a week later because, whether it was a mix-up or by some legal design, the judge was never given the information that the baby was the result of rape..

People were fired over the result of the mix-up.

There are still seven states in our nation that do not have laws that prevent a rapist parental rights. Including yes, Alabama.

Well then lets give the woman the choice of just how much money she wants from the man if she keeps the baby. 5,000. 10,000 100,000 per month What sounds fair to you?

Why yes we have I call it a baby, you call it something else. Yet the truth is it is a HUMAN LIFE that is being snuffed out, Just the same as a person ripping apart a 1 week old baby. The difference is that you want convenience while I want human life to survive.

A one week old baby can live outside the womb.

Why is a turtle egg afforded all of the rights and protections of an adult turtle but a fetus/embryo is not afforded all of the rights and protections of a human being?

Two parts. Turtles are a protected species because our species can’t stop destroying their populations without said protections. Humans have over run this planet like a swarm of locusts on a crop. One less person is welcome.

Two. Let’s get back to the fertility clinics. Those embryos aren’t protected. Why?

But.. science.. if an egg is considered the species it will ultimately become, why isn't an embryo. You can ramble all day why sea turtles should be protected but I'm not going to argue with you... just want to understand the hypocrisy in the science.

And now your argument in favor of abortion is overpopulation? this gets more orwellian by the moment.


They should be.

BULLCRAP It can't. Without people taking care of he/she they will die. They can't feed themselves, they can't even get a drink for themselves. They would die within a matter of days. Yet if the mother/father/ or other person does not feed them, or make sure they drink they would die. Then they would be charged with murder.

They can breathe on their own. Support their own life through breathing. Sure they need care, but anything which can not breath can not live.

Because some folks want convience over what is right. It's just that plain and simple in almost 95 percent if the cases.

They need the same care one freaking day before they leave the womb as they do one day after they leave it. It's so simple even a freaking caveman could understand it.

As to the eggs... if a turtle asked for an abortion I’d grant it. #equality

As to the fertility clinic eggs...
But they’re not protected. So it’s not about the life of Alabama’s children it’s about controlling the women of Alabama.

It’s simple to me. I don’t want to live on this planet with a bunch of unwanted children being raised around me, likely poorly, likely performing poorly in school, likely living in abusive (mental, psychological, or physical) situations by their resentful parents, likely leading to continuing the cycle once they’re adults.
This does not sound like a great society to me. Maybe it does to you. Maybe you an GM can start a huge foster house to raise the unwanted. I have a friend that fosters. The horror stories she tells are eye opening. She has wings waiting in heaven. The few kids she gets to effect is only a small fraction of those that need such help. Yet? Let’s add to it. Let’s add a bunch more unwanted kids to the world. Utopia awaits.

So a three month fetus who can not sustain their own life is the same as a newborn that can by breathing. I'm just trying to get this straight here. You seem to indicate something that can not sustain its own life by breathing on its own is the exact same thing as something that can.

So your saying it's a inconvience to you so just kill them.

I am saying folks who keep saying the (as they call it fetus/clump of cells/embryo} can't survive outside of the mother is not a baby. Yet when you point out that not a single damn one of us could survive outside of the womb without help . They all shut the hell up and run away.

You bring up a point I've often tried to discuss with people. Being pro life means from birth to the grave. That's a persons life. Pro birth on the other hand means you only seem to care about them being born. After that you take a total hands off approach. One is pro life and one is pro birth. There's a difference.

I won't try to speak for GM but I believe he is pro human all the way. From beginning to end. From my understanding he's extremely conflicted because many of his principals to not lean in the republican direction. But the life of what he deems a human being reigns supreme to him.

I'm actually against abortion myself on a personal level. But God didn't give men vagina's. As such I have no intention of helping legislate or support trying to control a woman's vagina. I've seen too many children grow up in poverty, abused, neglected and surrounded by drugs. Hungry, no housing and living a life destitute.

If we actually lived in a world where children were protected and cared for I may feel exactly that way GM does about the topic. But alas we don't.

It’s an inconvenience to society as a whole. It’s inhumane to the child forced into the situation. We’d take a puppy ignored by its mother away and bottle feed it. Yet when a human parent does similar it’s often hidden from society until the damage is done. Another broken human.
Or we dump the kid into foster homes. They’re always a bastion of safety after all. Do a google search. Here copy and paste this into your browser... foster parents kids cages... . It’s shocking.
But let’s add to the system. Let’s add more and more and more. You know, because compassion.

Well I'm not one of those people.

I fully understand, IMO, that a being that can not breath to sustain its own life is not a baby.

Kind of like when I ask all the pro birthers how many American babies they have adopted... crickets.

Your right brother I care about conception to grave We just disagree about the conception to birth part



You forgot to mention that he also didn't give woman a penis. and without that she wouldn't be pregnant in the first place.