DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Duke Johnson

Just curious ...

Do u think its a

Big issue
Medium issue
Small issue
No issue

In the locker room ...

I’m with u ... i think bake said the wrong thing ... i also think it was a non issue the second they talked about it ...

I personally think this is a lot like obj missing ota’s ... its only an issue in the press and places like this ... it didn’t amount to a hill of a beans in a locker room ...

I don't know if it is an issue or not. It could be. Former players and coaches have addressed it and said that Baker was out of line and that he better "be careful."

I've brought this up before, but players do not typically talk about other players contracts and playing time status. They play the game for money and you don't mess around that.

That is why the Steeler offensive linemen caught so much national grief last year when they called out L. Bell for playing games during his holdout during the summer.

There are people on here defending Baker because it's Baker. They will do that no matter what. They are blaming Duke for it all as if that excuses what Baker said. However, life isn't like a Greek tragedy or even most novels and movies. Often, there isn't one clear-cut "hero" and one clear-cut villain. Like so many other situations in "real" life, both parties can be wrong and the wrongness of one's actions doesn't make the other one "right."

Some of us predicted that Duke would do what he did. We were told that it made no sense to trade him. The posts are very easy to find. It wasn't all that long ago. It will be interesting to see what the Browns do moving forward w/Duke.

As far as Baker goes, I'm hoping that Freddie, Dorsey, or a couple of vets sat down w/him and tried to educate him on how to deal with "internal" issues when answering questions from the media.

Should baker have said it...no, is it going to matter 9/8? Even bigger no. I think Baker's intention was mostly to say stop asking me questions about guys that aren't going to be here because they don't want to be here

Baker did not say a single word about Duke's contract or playing time status when he answered questions asked of him as a leader of the team. You keep bringing that up and applying it to Baker as if it applies in this instance.

Judging how Baker's comments completely dovetail with those of Freddie, I'd say they've already sat down and discussed how to respond to questions about Duke...and Baker followed the rallying cry.

Some people on here simply don't like Baker and whiffed on their evaluation of him. They trump up this stuff to make themselves feel better about being so incredibly wrong in their analysis of a player. Can't slam the on-filed talent? No worries...make up crap about his off-field stuff to salve the wound.

"Some of us predicted that Duke would do what he did."

Who DIDN'T predict that Duke would likely want a trade after Hunt was signed? Do you think you made some brilliant prognostication there? What wasn't predicted is that Duke would make his desire so public and force the team's hand to deal with his self-inflicted awkwardness...if such a thing even exists. (Which Baker said does not exist for anyone else on the team...if it exists at all.)

Duke needs to just do his job as a professional. How is that = to a young guy saying something stupid or messing with another man's money? That's EXACTLY what I would expect my FQB to say.

You never fail to make things personal.

I won't reciprocate.

I agree the players don’t mess with other players money 100% ... they are definitely bonded when it comes to that ... i also agree Bake should not have done it and some will defend him no matter what ...

I think its a non-issue and u don’t know if it is one ... the reason I think its a non-issue and u don’t is probably how we interpret (spell checks great when it works ... *L*) ... if he was messing with Duke’s money ...

I don’t believe he was messing with Duke’s money ... the way the questions were asked and his mind set of everything being team team team as to what perspective he was answering those questions from ... i think that was the angle he answered them from ... i think he did it very sloppily and wish he didn’t say it ... I think Bake is in-mature ( i hate when spell check gives me options ..... *L*) .... but i don’t think this was him being in-mature .... i think it was just what i consider a “sloppy” answer ...

U perceive it different than me so I understand why u think it could be an issue ....

Were really not that far apart .... we both agree he shouldn’t have said it were just differ on how big a deal it is in the locker and u aren’t sure if it’s even an issue ...

What dissapointed (and now spell checkers not working and i’m To lazy to go look it up .... i’m Gonna buy a dictionary and learn how to spell the way i was taught ... seriously ... i am ...) me the most on this one is Duke is very good at what he does ... he is far from “just another guy” and now some are saying he’s not very good ...

I’m no fan of Duke making it public (its not like everyone didn’t know butit didn’t help..) ... but it doesn’t make him any worse at his job ... he’s very good at it ...

Its like some don’t understand the value of the limited touches he gets a game ... guys like him and Theo Roddick and James White get the extra yard or two or three that keep the drive alive that leads to TD’s ... they get 20 yards when others would get 10 ... there the cream of that crop IMO ... maybe i over rate him but theres no way he’s not very good at what he does and were lucky to have him and even luckier to have two backs the quality of Chubb/Hunt ....

I also think the fact he’s still here has more to do with his value to us ... i think we got third day offers for him (purely my opinion) and didn’t think it made sense value wise ... he has a role with this team for the first 8 games at least .....

Oh puhleeze. No one on this board "makes it personal" more than you do...not even close. You don't get a free ride when you say THIS:

"There are people on here defending Baker because it's Baker. They will do that no matter what."

You just might get push-back for "making things personal" there. You can 'dish-it-out' but can't take-it.

That is a fair post and don't have any problems w/it. We just disagree a bit. I like that we did so w/out trying to attack one another's character and pretending we know one another's motives.

I get why we disagree on the money aspect. I know that Duke is getting paid well and this isn't about his contract. It's more nuanced than that. Languishing on the bench will hurt Duke's "career." Having Baker call him out in the media might actually lead to him being cut. It also hurts his value w/other teams.

I am not defending Duke here. I agree w/you that he should not have gone public w/his trade requests. I predicted it would happen because I know RBs are proud dudes and we all want the rock. You can't succeed at that position if you don't have that attitude. However, the bottom line is that Duke should not have talked to the media about those requests. He should have kept it "in-house."

It's my contention that both players should have kept it "in-house."

My spell-checker exploded and it wouldn't let me quote anything else you posted ...BUT...the "defend him no matter what" comment is not reasonable. I would say "defend him from things that simply aren't a big deal" would be the theme.

What he has done as pro football player - on and off the field - has been exemplary. Not perfect like you and me...but about as good as could be expected under the circumstances.

Saying things like "defend him no matter what" will only light the fire. Accusations that didn't happen, will throw fuel on the fire. There is a difference between "defending him no matter what" and stating when there is/was nothing to "defend" in the first place.

I've already addressed this, but I think it is a very minor thing. Small issue, part of being human. We all make mistakes.

But it was poor leadership all the same. Nothing will change that. Small issue, big issue, medium issue...that has nothing to do with whether it was poor leadership or not.

A few other points -

1. This has nothing to do with Duke's money.
2. Baker left his first college team because he didn't like the situation. Duke asking to be traded is very analogous to this. So in many ways Baker is a hypocrite.
3. Watch the clip. Baker was very dismissive of Duke. The term self inflicted was a dig. He then doubled down when he had a chance to soften it.
4. Baker wasn't anywhere close to being this dismissive of OBJ when asked about him not being there for OTAs.

I think Baker should be careful. I think he should be more supportive of all of his teammates.

This is probably accurate.

And the "there are people defending Baker because it's Baker" stuff is just more made up bs. The fact Baker said it should make it less of an issue but there are so many who are looking for something, anything to criticize Baker.

I'd imagine Baker doesn't regret saying what he said and 20 years down the road he won't regret it either. This isn't comparable to the Steelers Bell situation for obvious reasons. I don't think it's a lapse in leadership. I think people are just taking what he said and trying to make it into something it's not. And those who don't care what he said are being considered Baker lovers who think he can do no wrong. The agenda bias is quite strong with this... kinda funny actually. I look forward to the next time Baker "screws up..."

*LOL* ... glad to see others have problems with spell check ..., *L* ...

I wasn’t really referring to this particular topic ... i can see why he’s being defended here ... i don’t agree with u here but i can completely see your side in this case .....

there is a group of posters that definitely do fit in that category .... other than tabber i’m not a huge fan of most of the posters in that group ... tabbers pretty much defended all our players since his 2nd or 3rd post on the board so thats just who he is .... and i respect his opinion and i felt very good about our pick cause tabber loved him so much .... hes a homer but IMO he knows his stuff .... the team finally turned U from a homer to a realist tabber ... woooohooooo ... *L* ....

your borderline but i put up with u anyhow ... *L* ...

I’m still not sure what Duke did wrong here ... and if your one of the ones that said he’s whined ... shame on u for that ... *L* ... i wish he didn’t make it public when he didn't report to OTA’s ... i haven’t seen the clip but from what I’ve read at the mandatory camp at his presser ... the way i take what i read is that he was asked a question and his answer was along the lines of and in this order ... i’m paraphrasing what i read ..

I’ll do my job if i’m here but i’d still rather be somewhere else ....

I have no issue with that answer what so ever ... i’m Not sure what he did wrong here ... when folks say he’s “whining” or taking other shots like that i don’t understand ...

- He’s not throwing a tantrum and saying it every other day ... to me it appears he was answering a question ...

- he said he’s gonna do his job if he’s here ...

So far he said he’d like to be traded when he didn’t report to OTA’s ... wish he didn’t say it ... don’t think its that big of a deal as anyone with a brain knows he wants to be traded .... then he appeared to be responding to a question directly relating to it at his presser that all players have ... and in that response he said he’ll do his job if here ...

THATS IT .... not sure why this is an issue on his end ...

Reading some of the adjectives used to describe his behavior you’d think he put up billboards in C-town and any cities he’d like to go to and is going on all the talk radio shows and demanding a trade .... i was going for an exaggeration as big as theres ... how’d i do? ... *LOL* ...

I would agree completely with this, top to bottom.

I disagree. If it's not orange and brown, it doesn't matter.

Duke obviously isn't orange and brown, so he doesn't matter. It's like Baker was commenting about a player on another team as far as I am concerned.

j/c

What can we expect to get for Duke? I agree with those who say he is JAG. He’s a nice player, but there is nothing special about him. Since he is our JAG he gets overvalued.

I keep thinking back to when Philly got a pro bowl rb in Jordan Howard for a 2020 6th round pick. This was before the 2019 draft. I think we get more value for Duke if we trade him for a player.

The longer we hold onto him, the better chance we have of getting decent value.

I think that a 5th, unfortunately, is probably the high-water mark.
The number of guys like him that can currently be signed for less is what will set his value. If a team can sign a comparable back that is currently out of work for a lot less, they aren't going to trade for Duke. Supply-Demand.

Our FO's only play right now is to hold onto him and hope another team develops a need for a player of Duke's talents. I expect that at this point he will be in Cleveland through all of Training Camp and pre-season.

I think that he definitely makes the 53 simply because Hunt won't take a roster spot once we get to that point.... that gives us through the first 8 or 9 weeks of the season to find a suitor.

Time & Patience is our friend.

Except your looking at life as a one way street. Players have to stay no matter what. Teams can cut or trade players any time. So actually Duke is bound to that contract and the team isn't. In today's society if a player says he wants to be traded, he's whining or crying. If a team says something like "He hasn't been traded yet", they aren't saying anything wrong.

Quite frankly i wouldn’t want Duke here if he didn’t want to be traded ...

He went from being #2 with a role as a 3rd down and change of pace back to having very little to no role after week 8 .... he should want touches and a role .... anyone wanting a reduced role in the prime of their careers isn’t my type of competitor ... i’m sure u agree ...

I said from day 1 IMO what happened with duke depended on what we thought of Hilliard ... we still need a #2 til at least week 8 ... Duke has value to us for that reason alone ... i think he’s pretty good at what he does ... do u? ...

I have no clue what value Dorsey places on him .. none ... all we know at this point is we didn’t get offered what were willing to accept today .... that may change during TC or at week 8 depending on Chubb’s health .... someone could get hurt and offer us more or we may be willing to accept less after TC is over and there were no injuries and its take that or nothing ...

Dukes value to us is directly related to what we actually think of Hilliard ... the more we think of Hilliard the less we should need for Duke ... at least that makes sense to me ... *L* ..

I see your point of view on it causing a problem and understand why u think that ... well, cause it could become one ... *L* ... i just don’t think it will be one and Duke has value to us IMO ...

Exactly, there is no rush.. he's under contract. Someone will go down, when that happens, the team he plays for might feel pressured to over pay for Duke...

In the meantime, we have a pretty darn good back...

Yup.... and for all we know, it could be US that ends up losing a RB and has a need for Duke.

Hunt could do something stupid, again. Hilliard could get hurt in camp, Chubb could get hurt in any one of the first eight games, etc....


He has value here in more ways that just as trade bait.

Again, exactly

OK .... where do u thinks its a big Problem ___________


Where do u think its a medium problem .... ________

Etc etc ...

...

My Question about Duke now, is how committed is he ? I seem to recall, the day Hunt was signed, Duke removed all Browns references from his social media accounts. Is this the actions of a player who is committed to his contract, to his team, or is it the action of someone who is butt hurt and will not care when push comes to shove ? I was in favor of keeping Duke on the team because I thought he could contribute, both before Hunt returns, and after. Now I wonder, maybe Duke's actions are a sign of a bigger problem, a lack of commitment to team success.

Shocked u think that ... u usually have a higher football IQ than that ... *L* ...

BUT ..... EVEN IF HE IS JAG ... for us .. who cares we have the cap space if we’d even save anything if we trade him ... but more importantly .... its about who do we have to TAKE HIS PLACE ... is Hilliard even just “another guy”? ... u don’t think Duke is incrementally better than Hilliard at all ...

Do u think Hilliard’s as good as Duke or do u think for the first 8 weeks there will be even a slight drop off in performance? ... the two important questions there are:

- will there be a drop off is we trade Duke
- if we have confidence in Hilliard what do we have if Chubb or Hilliard go down in the first 8 weeks ...




I agree ... if we can squeeze a 5th out of him I’d think that’d be near miraculous ... and i think ON THIS TEAM TODAY Duke has way more value than a 5th round pick much less a 6th or 7th rounder especially when u consider how much harder it is to make this team now ...

WERE TRYING TO WIN NOW ... and i don’t see how Duke won’t have a role in that for at least 8 weeks ...

Blue Moon for me please sir ...

It would cost us cap space if we traded Duke this year.

I'm looking at it in reality. Those are the rules all play by in the NFL. He signed it, he's stuck with it, own it and play out the contract.

Ty sir ...

YW.

Duke Johnson Contract Details, Salary Cap Breakdowns, Salaries, Bonuses | Spotrac
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/duke-johnson-16801/

And that's fine but I think you also need to look at the players side to make things fair. They do have some recourse as well. And one of those choices is to make it known they no longer wish to be there. Some players simply sit out and don't show up. Each side has options and Duke seems to be using one of his options.

I'm not saying everyone needs to see that in a positive light. That's really not my point here. But on the teams side they have a contract in place that a payer has no choice to opt out of. That's a lot of leverage for NFL teams to have. On the players side they have the option of letting it known they want to be traded or sit out.

In both cases they are nothing more than bargaining chips to use as leverage. I've just never faulted a player for using the leverage at their disposal no more than a blame a team for using theirs.

It's just business and not something fans should get all worked up about or label a player in a negative light for.

He's either a man of his word, or not. He signed it knowing how the NFL works. He has an agent to keep him well informed of his choices. It's time to own it, or take his toys and go home, unpaid.

So then when a team signs a contract they should always be a team of their word? Look, I know you're entrenched in your position. That nothing will cause you to consider both sides. But a player has just as much right to let it be known he wants out of a contract as a team does not to honor one they signed.

Teams pay a lot in signing bonus and guaranteed money to have the right to terminate a deal.

It's within the contract terms the team can trade, not trade/cut, not cut/play or not play them. So the team is living with the agreement they signed.

And Duke Johnson is where he's supposed to be doing what he is supposed to be doing as well. He too is living up to the agreement he signed. The team made it clear he was up for trade and he's made it clear he doesn't want to be here.

As I said above Duke is living up to that contract as well. The only difference is that some people feels he shouldn't use what little leverage he has in this situation.

I don't think any of it is a problem.
I can see why people think aspects of it MIGHT be, but no part of it is a problem.

U do know that the last time Duke mentioned it in response to a question I believe that he said ... and i’m Paraphrasing but the order i’m Putting it in is the way it was written in the two trifles i read ...

I will do my job s one as i’m here but i’d rather be somewhere else ...

Not sure if u knew that or not ... doesn’t sound like we have to worry about Duke not giving it his all ...

As long as he doesn't quit on the team, for however long he's here, that would be great.

That isn't a concern. Duke's a professional; he'll work.

That said, I don't expect him to be here the entire season. We'll find someplace for him.