DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mandatory Minicamp Thread (not to be confused w/ voluntary workouts)

He lined up over a guard.

He still looked outside to me, but it was fun to watch none the less.

I suspect he will do fine wherever we line him up

Like you were doing yesterday? Practice what you preach.

Are you saying he didn't train on his own? Are you disputing the video evidence that was posted on this very board?

Well, you did put "personal trainer" in quotes, which usually indicates sarcasm, or that you don't actually believe it.

jfan...it was reported that obj used a "personal trainer" vs working out on his own for example.

Working out with a personal trainer, I would expect to see obj in at least near the condition level of his teammates who attended camp. I guess my expectations might be a bit too high...thus obj and Duke worked out separately from the team, with the Browns showing caution, not pushing obj.

Did the Browns question obj's conditioning?

No it's a preventive measure against injury...

Yep...and Duke's and OBJ's OTA-abscense-reasons were completely different.

6 things we learned from Browns mandatory minicamp

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2019/06/09/6-things-we-learned-from-browns-mandatory-minicamp/

Three days of mandatory minicamp have come and gone in Berea. The Browns showed up en masse and the national media took note of the first time the full 90-man Browns roster practiced together.

Here are some of the top takeaways from the last formal football activity before training camp kicks off at the end of July.

The colorful wideout kept his word and was a full participant in the mandatory minicamp. Beckham did not disappoint in his first practices with his new teammates.

There were one-handed catches. There were filthy-good routes. There were all the signs of why Beckham has emerged as a star during his Giants career and why the Browns were so ecstatic to acquire him.

His 20-minute media Q&A after Wednesday’s practice proved Beckham seems happy being one of a few very big fish in a pond that hasn’t had many mediagenic players with the game to back it up in quite some time.

Just to keep his high profile up, Beckham showed up for Game 4 of the NBA Finals. His outfit was conspicuously Cleveland…



Duke Johnson’s time in Cleveland is tenuous at best

Johnson reported for duty instead of holding out, but the veteran running back reiterated his desire to be traded away. Based on the quotes from Baker Mayfield and Freddie Kitchens, the leadership on the offense appears ready for life without Johnson.

With Dontrell Hilliard earning praise from both coaches and media onlookers, as well as newcomer Kareem Hunt looking fit, there’s no real reason to keep Johnson around. Hunt will be suspended for the first eight games, but the combination of Nick Chubb and Hilliard can handle the workload. Finding a third RB who actually wants to be a contributing piece to a loaded offense shouldn’t be too hard. Former AAF standout D’Ernest Johnson and undrafted rookie Trayone Gray deserve longer looks in training camp even if Duke Johnson is still around.

The cornerbacks have high-end potential

Denzel Ward and company don’t get a lot of national attention. Based on how they played in the spring, the Browns cornerbacks are fixing to change that.

Ward and Beckham held some epic (for no full contact) battles, and the second-year CB proved a worthy foil for the perennial All-Pro wideout. The team’s top draft pick, Greedy Williams, earned positive reviews. Williams had a pick-six in Wednesday’s practice.

With vets T.J. Carrie and Terrance Mitchell back for their second seasons in the secondary, there is depth. Carrie’s early exit from Thursday’s practice shows some lack of proven depth in the slot, but Eric Murray also earned praise from various media reports. Murray has played both CB and safety but thus far he’s worked at corner in Cleveland.

The offensive tackle depth is shallow

This was reinforced when the team sent Desmond Harrison packing for arriving late. The former starting left tackle was not good in his rookie season, but he at least had a modicum of experience and familiarity with his teammates.

Now there is no seasoned depth at all to back up Greg Robinson or Chris Hubbard at the tackle spots. Neither of them will ever make fans forget Joe Thomas or even Doug Dieken, either. I have seen enough of Kendall Lamm from my days covering the Texans to know he’s not even Desmond Harrison. It sure seems like any notion of Austin Corbett returning to the tackle spot he played in college is gone, too.

The intensity is tangible

Minicamp is typically not the most intense of practices. There is no full contact, no full pads and an overtone of injury prevention.

That said, the Browns treated the three days with focus and tenacity. Kitchens proved that even though he’s got a folksy demeanor, he can yell and isn’t afraid to get after players when they need it.

From the Browns official website,

This team is stocked with competitors, and it’s showing in their pace of play. At field level in the cramped environment that comes with practices forced indoors, it was stunning to see how fast these guys were playing. Pass rushers were not just jogging through the motions and defensive backs were not giving much cushion at all. Receivers were matching their intensity in their route running, too.

Nobody ever said those things about a Hue Jackson practice. The top-end talent isn’t taking anything for granted. That right there is a coaching win for Kitchens — if such a conclusion can be drawn from the first month of his regime.

The battles for the specialist roles are legit

Austin Seibert vs. Greg Joseph at kicker. Britton Colquitt vs. Jamie Gillan at punter. A battle royal of sorts for the punt and kick return positions.

Minicamp did little to sort out those competitions, but it did reemphasize that the jobs will have to be earned on merit. Seibert and Joseph both made clutch kicks in pressure situations. Just because Seibert is a fifth-round pick and Mayfield’s former teammate at Oklahoma, don’t presume he will beat out Joseph, The incumbent has been sharp.

Gillan faces an uphill battle to unseat Colquitt, but the undrafted rookie showed off his leg strength in the sessions open to the media. The Scottish Hammer is also working hard on holding, something Colquitt does exceptionally well.



As for the return men, that’s a broader competition that will have to wait until hitting and live tackling are permitted.

re: 6 Things:

I'm not sure what viable options we might pursue in order to bolster our OT depth. Maybe someone can educate me a bit.

I'll have to read up a bit more on D'Ernest Johnson and Trayone Gray. Looks like one will be our relief back for a couple months behind Chubb/Hilliard come September.

Special Teams: Makes me nervous the Scottish Hammer doesn't have holding experience. I can just see a botched FG or PAT hold losing a game for us. I don't think he beats out Colquitt.

I'm hoping Seibert gives us some much needed stability, but if Joseph has a good camp and pre-season, who knows? At any rate, I would think one of the two will pick up quickly with another team in August.

I still think drafting a Kicker in the 5th round was an idiotic move, as I'm confident Joseph will win the starting spot.

Waste of a pick.

I think drafting kickers is smart and more teams should do so because kickers decide so many games. I'm not getting on your opinion, though. I understand it. I just have thought that the NFL devalues kickers too much considering their impacts on games.

I agree with you about Greg Joseph.

I agree and disagree. I think drafting a kicker "high" is stupid. But getting the best kicker - or second best - with a 5th Rd pick is an ok gamble to me.

To me, that's simply a gamble - and maybe not a good one - but not so much a wasted pick.

In 2018, 73 games were decided by three points or less.

This has made the NFL sit up and take notice of just how valuable it is to have a quality kicker. We saw how many teams actually had problems with their kickers last year. Many say the game is evolving and rightly so. I don't understand why some can't see that investing more in securing your kicking game is a part of that evolution.

U know Pit ... i look back at all the missed xp’s And fg’s from the 1 - 31 years andI’m actually thankful for them now ... those misses along with Hue and Sashi set the table for Dorsey ....

Last year i think back to being 3 - 0 instead of 1 - 1 - 1 and Bake taking over ... and ... well wait .... i guess they were part of the reason the dysfunctional duo were let go ...

Never mind ... *L* ...

I have zero problem investing 5th round picks on kickers ... as long as there good .. *L* ...

I hope who ever wins it makes em all ... we need it now .. the ineptness helped us get to where we are today ... now ineptness will HURT US ... we need a good one ...

Good Luck to both of them ... if Joseph wins it and we cut dude we drafted ... so be it .. i’d Still be fine with the pick ..

Something else we need to consider. In years past a 5th rounder was more valuable to us because we knew they were going to make the team. The team has improved to the point there is not a sure thing for 5th rounder making the team. We are nearing the point we can take a "flyer" with 5th round picks.

I'm sure some fans haven't grasped that concept yet, but for those of us who do it's a very positive and refreshing change of pace.

New England believes in the value of having a good kicker...

It can make a difference, and became more important when the extra point was moved back.

I think that kicker has become one of the most valuable positions in football when it comes to W/L record. I would be fine taking a kicker in the first round if he was good enough. Problem is, when kickers are drafted they tend to be significantly inferior to veteran kickers. Rookie kickers need a few years of seasoning and in general will cost you too many games during the maturation process.

Kickers have always been valuable once Lou "The Toe" started winning games with his foot in the mid 50's.

I agree with your point about kickers grow in to the position. That is why you see them bounce around fairly often in their career. Joseph may have have gotten his seasoning last year.

And for the record, the guy was 17/20 with a long of 51. That is 85%. That seems to be in line with any other kicker. We have to remember, they are going to miss some kicks. Some due to distance, some due to weather, some due to a inferior hold, snap, or block on the line, and some simply because they clunked one.

Sometimes I think people bunch in some Gonzo kicks and think it was Joseph. And Gonzo is a good kicker. He stands a good chance of having a long career. Heck, Phil Dawson, a darn good kicker had a career 84% make rate even though some talk about him like he made 99% of his kicks.

This is why I disagree with the pick. Any other position, you give your player time to develop. Kickers don't get that luxury.

What was he on extra points? ... thats important also in todays game ...

I don't know if that is a fact, but that's the impression I get, as well. And if it is true, that's a very good point when considering whether to draft a kicker or not.

I don't know. Look it up and report back.

It's hard for me to argue because I don't disagree. Maybe Dorsey mixed up kicks between Gonzo and Joseph.


But in the end, I don't disagree with drafting kickers. If you get the right guy, he might play 20 years. And some don't bounce around. They step in and slam them home from the beginning.

Maybe Dorsey didn't want to take the chance on Joseph without solid competition. As I said, it was a flyer pick.

Who else were we going to take? We drafted the top kicker on our board...I can't say I disagree with that even if I agree with you....if that makes sense?

Makes sense.

I'm sure 2-3 years from now we'll see a thread or post that points out the superstar that was drafted after the kicker we selected, and that we should have drafted that person instead of a kicker.

J/C

Week #17, we win and we are in the playoffs.
We are down 2, and driving down the field in the 2 minute drill.
2 seconds left:

We send Joseph on for a 35 yrd FG
How comfortable are you that he makes it?

A 42 yrd FG?
A 52 yrd FG?

Get Phil Dawson on the phone...

"Week #17, we win and we are in the playoffs.
We are down 2, and driving down the field in the 2 minute drill.
2 seconds left:

We send Joseph on for a 35 yrd FG
How comfortable are you that he makes it?

A 42 yrd FG?
A 52 yrd FG?"

52 yarder In Cleveland (Wk 17)- no.
42 yarder In Cleveland (Wk 17) - maybe.
35 yarder In Cleveland (Wk 17) - probably.

I don't like any of those scenarios.

I'm glad there's competition going on. No more games lost by the kicker!!

LOL....probably so. I don't pay attention to that stuff all that much. Any fool can look in to the crystal ball 2-3 years later and get the pick right, and any fool can luck in to a pick.

Not much at all. When he makes kicks, they are too iffy. I would like to see clean FGs. Not just the wobblers that squeak in.

It would depend on how instrumental he was in getting us to that point.

Who knows?

Last year he was a rookie. He was in camp with the Dolphins. He then missed the 1st few games of the year. He was ... OK .... last year.

We all say things like "The biggest jump a guy makes is between his rookie season and his 2nd season. Well, this would be Joseph's 2nd season, with a full off-season with the Browns. He also has a highly regarded special teams coach now.

We'll see who wins out, and how they look. I think we'll be OK with one of the 2 kickers.

Would be nice to have a Justin Tucker type kicker on the team, for sure.