DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Duke Johnson

So u think he has very little to no value here for the first 8 games and he’s gone toot sweet or u think we wait til week 9 when Hunt is eligible? ...

What do u think we’ll get in return? ... player/pick ... if a pick what round u thinking?

Already answered all of that, lol, but I can repeat: I think the best we can hope to get is a 5th rounder, but ultimately his value will be determined by how badly another team needs a player like him and how many guys are on the street and available to be signed for less than what he will cost a team.

I think he has lots of value here especially for the first 8 games while Hunt is out and I think that whether or not he is gone depends upon if we can find a buyer. I think that if a team is buying and is willing to pay an acceptable value, I think he'd be gone this afternoon..... but, I don't expect that to happen at all any earlier than the pre-season. Teams are going to look at their current backs, draft picks, UDFA's and other players first to see if they have what they need. IF - and only IF - they feel like they still need help will anyone come calling, and that just isn't likely to happen in June. End of August is the earliest I would think we might hear anything, but perhaps as late as end of October..... but, that far out there is just WAY TOO MUCH unknown.

I have no clue how much value he has here. To me that depends on where they have him penciled in on the roster. If Hilliard is who this coaching staff sees as the back-up and Duke is third on the roster at RB, I believe his value is greatly diminished. If he is currently the #2 RB, then his value is higher.

I don't honestly feel anyone knows how that current situation stands.

j/c:

This is amusing. When Baker made his comments about Duke, posters said that "Baker was asked a question." When Duke made his comments about being traded, posters did not say he was asked a question. Instead, they said he was "butt hurt," "a whiner," and "crying to the media."

Interesting.

Lol. It's all perspective man. People on the other side of the issue are calling Baker an idiot and act like he's stealing Duke's paycheck. Then they act like Duke is some poor, misguided player, taken advantage of by the team and is worthy of some type of special treatment because he's not happy!

Kind of amusing on both sides, no?

LOL...........I guess I am on the other side and perhaps that is the way I am coming across, but that is not my intent. I only keep it up because people are unwilling to back off. I've said I would drop it a few times if they would. They haven't and thus, neither will I. I didn't get where I got by being intimidated.

For the record, I do think Baker is an idiot. I always have. However, I am not calling him an idiot for this episode. I am not trying to say he is "stealing" Duke's money. I'm saying he should not have thrown his teammate under the bus. I think he should have just talked to Duke in person. In fact, I don't have any problems w/Baker's thoughts. Just in the way he chose to voice them.

I don't mind him using it. He needs to use it in private. Once he started talking to the press, he opened it up for Baker and anyone else to comment.

At any rate, this is a bigger deal on this board then with the team. I doubt players are milling over Dukes and Bakers comments.

He has value, but if Dorsey gets whatever his magic number might be, he gets shipped then.

To answer your question about what we might get...it's hard to speculate on a player for player deal. As for a pick, if we traded now, I am thinking a 6th rounder. If we wait until camp begins and someone gets hurt, who knows? Might be a late 4th at best, early 5th....just depends on the team and where they feel they might finish out the season. If they feel they can actually win some, maybe the 4th. If they think they are still a ways away, the early 5th rounder.

The guy just doesn't have that much trade value and it just isn't him. The evolution of the game and the position has made all but the elite backs expendable parts. It's become a plug and play position.

Not sure my point came across.

I have said many times that Duke is a nice player. I have nothing against him. Yes, I did say he is overpaid, and I believe that, but it doesn’t bother me. But he is a role player. He is not a feature back. When we moved on from Crowell we did not make Duke the feature back. We brought in Hyde. Then drafted Chubb. When we moved on from Hyde we featured Chubb. At some point we will have Hunt. Duke has never been a feature back. He is not a top 32 back. He might not even be top 50 or 60.

We’ve talked about Duke’s touches, no need to go into it. When Hunt is activated then Duke’s role diminishes more. You don’t take away from Chubb in favor of Duke.

I do not know about Hilliard other than he need not throw the gall again.

I think Duke has value to us the first 8 games, then a diminished value after that. As I do not think we can get more than a 7th, unless a team gets desperate, then I just as soon keep him until Hunt is active. Unless someone has a good offer, due to injury or something.

I think it ends up being for a player that is on the outs with his team.

Blue Moon is comin’ up.

You're pretty much spot on on all points. I think a lot depends on what the offensive coaching staff thinks about a player like Duke. I like his skill set and would always like to have a player like Duke who can seamlessly transition between that shifty/3rd down back and slot receiver role.

There's a lot of potential there for creativity and creating mismatches. That said, it seems like not every offensive coordinator feels the same way, or they can't build the offense in such a way to utilize that kind of player, so it kind of depends.

Mayfield comments about Johnson is the beginning of the wheels falling off, and the season has even started yet. Mayfield is a ******* moron, already calling out his teams mates and poking his nose where it doesn't belong. He is no leader, the guy is a joke.

Dule Johnson is the most efficent RB in football from 2015 to 2018:





Duke Johnson is an ELITE receiving and blocking back in this league and most Browns fans are too stupid to see it. He is better than Kareem Hunt and will bring more to this team because he doesn't have the character issues and baggage Hunt has. Bellichik would take Johnson over Hunt 100 out of 100 times and twice on Sunday because Johnson is a guy who will fit and do his damn job better than anyone else without the off field issues and nonsense.

Bringing in Hunt made no sense anyways we should be featuring Chubb, and Johnson is the PERFECT compliment to Chubb, so it was a complete waste to even bring in Hunt. He was only signed because he is a "Dorsey Guy" not because we actually needed him.

Hunt is 10 times the player Duke is. I like Duke - always have - but saying we didn't need to sign Hunt because we have Duke is asinine. . .

Calling this the end of the season .... smh - just more of your hate rhetoric for Baker.

I should add that all of this stuff being out in the public and not strictly behind closed doors diminishes any trade value he has.

Duke Johnson and Cleveland Browns have reached the point of no return: Mary Kay Cabot
Updated Jun 10, 2019
By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio — When your quarterback starts calling you out and your agent’s legendary rapper husband claps back, you’ve reached the point of no return.

That’s exactly where the Browns and Duke Johnson are right now: It’s over and it’s in the best interests of both sides to part ways as soon as possible.

At minicamp last week, Johnson re-iterated his desire to be traded and explained that it’s because the Browns placed him on the trading block a month before he asked to be dealt. He contends the club has done nothing to make him feel wanted since he made his request April 1, and that they lost his loyalty by trying to trade him.


While Johnson spoke at the podium on Tuesday, Mayfield stood on the fringes listening in, at times shaking his head.

When it was his turn to take the podium a few minutes later, he let Johnson have it, saying his situation with the club was “self-inflicted’’ and “obviously he’s going to handle his stuff how he wants, but you’re either on this train or you’re not, it’s moving. You can get out of the way or you can join us. So it is what it is."


Johnson wasn’t available to the media again after that, but his agent’s husband called out Mayfield the next day for sticking his nose in Johnson’s business.

“F--- Baker Mayfield for saying that dumb s--- about Duke Johnson,” tweeted legendary 2 Live Crew rapper Luther Campbell, husband of Johnson’s agent Kristin Campbell. “I guarantee you be the one to divide this locker room up. You are not in Texas at Cracker Barrel.”

“Uncle Luke” Campbell came back at Mayfield again on Twitter on Friday, listing all the elite quarterbacks such as Brett Favre, Joe Montana and Peyton Manning who were traded by their original teams and warning him “don’t ever turn on your teammates for management — you are not exempt.’’


Luther Luke Campbell
✔
@unclelukereal1
Hey @bakermayfield this will be my last tweet to you.
Brett Favre traded
Joe Montana treated.
Peyton Manning traded
Drew Brees traded.
Dan Marino told to go home
Don't ever turn on your teammates for management you are not exempt

386
12:08 PM - Jun 7, 2019
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371 people are talking about this
With Mayfield publicly chastising Johnson and the running back re-iterating his desire to be traded, it’s no longer possible or feasible for the two parties to co-exist, and it doesn’t make sense to keep him around.


Even coach Freddie Kitchens, in a response to a question about Gerald McCoy choosing the Panthers over the Browns, made it clear he doesn’t want players on the roster who aren’t on the train.

“We want people that want to be here,’’ he said on the first day of mandatory minicamp. “We want people that want to be here for the right reasons. If there’s any reservation at all, we don’t want anybody to be here. What we’re about to do, it’s not for everybody.’’

Johnson, the Browns’ third-round pick in 2015, admitted that he attended the full-squad minicamp only because it was mandatory. Had he skipped it like he did the entire voluntary offseason program, he would’ve been fined more than $80,000. When he was out on the field, he worked hard as he always does and promised he won’t be a disgruntled employee.

But there’s just no point in it anymore. It’s a distraction the Browns don’t need, and they should trade Johnson as soon as they can. The only reason they haven’t done so yet is because they haven’t received a high enough offer. The Browns are hoping for more than the sixth- or seventh-round picks running backs garner these days. Ideally, they’re probably holding out for a fourth-round pick or higher, and Johnson is definitely worth that because of his dual-role as a receiver and running back.


But if they can’t get it, they should take the best offer and eliminate this distraction as soon as possible. The Browns have enough on their plate this season with Odell Beckham Jr. adjusting to his new team, a new head coach, new coordinators and a second-year quarterback with great expectations to win the division and take this team to great heights.

Johnson’s value could increase in training camp or preseason if a back goes down, but it’s not even worth the distraction to bring him back. The Browns have too much at stake this season to spend extra time on someone who doesn’t want to be here.

Not only will Kareem Hunt make Johnson expendable when he returns from his suspension against the Bills Nov. 10, young running back Dontrell Hilliard, signed as an undrafted rookie out of Tulane last year, has already begun to demonstrate he can replace Johnson as the third-down back.

With Kitchens and running backs coach Stump Mitchell praising Hilliard over the past few months, it’s more evidence they’re done with Johnson. If they can get Hilliard to believe in himself as much as they do, they’ll have unearthed a gem.

At 25, Johnson still has plenty to offer a team and has a trade-friendly contract with cash payouts over the next three years of $2.3 million, $4.1 million and $5.15 million. Plenty of teams are still interested, including some that have coaches that tutored him in Cleveland.


One thing is abundantly clear about the Browns this season: Mayfield is the undisputed leader of this team, and when you’ve lost him, it’s over.


https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/06...-kay-cabot.html

I wonder if this is the same dude that Memphis and device and the rest of the menZas got the stats from that convinced them VG was overpaid ....

This is exactly why .... STATS ARE FOR LOSERS!!!!!

Maybe Baker should have, but so should have duke then, no?

Once again, your taking a stand on the other side simply because its baker on one of them.

Cart before the horse. If duke would have kept shush about his trade request, etc. Baker would not have been asked about it.

Which is why we couldn't get anything at all for him on the trade market. He's so good and so valuable, nobody wanted to give up anything for him.

Mountains from Mole Hills.

So are ignorant clichés and the excessive use of exclamation points.

Quoted for truth.

Writers love stats. NFL teams love "real players".

I wonder how much Duke's usage as a 3rd down back and slot receiver skews those efficiency stats.

For example, it's hard to pick up a first down when you're getting a handoff on 1st and 10. 3rd and 5 and getting a pass (either out of the backfield or from the slot) and it's a lot more likely.

Always on the attack. I also said this:



That kinda ruins your entire premise, but I'm sure that won't stop you from marching forward w/you BS.

I don't think Baker should have called Duke out in the media, but you are over blowing the situation. I don't think it's nearly as big of a deal as you do. I just think he should have been smarter about it.

I am not going to quote the entire article due to its length, but there were plenty of people who said Duke would not become a distraction and that what Baker said was not a distraction.

Are any of you rethinking your prior statements are your feet firmly planted in the sands of denial?

I haven’t read a good majority of this thread ... the last few pages are the first I’ve really paid attention so there’s been a lot posted on here I’m not aware of ... *LOL* ...

I only asked cause everyones talking in general ... i wanted to see what some thought his value was ...

Seems were all pretty much on the same page ...

We’ll know when TC ends if he’s still here that we still didn’t get the value we wanted ... unless he gets traded we’ll never know what his value was to the team ...

Once we get close to week 8 and he gets traded we’ll never know what we valued Duke at during this stage of the “drama” ...

Mary Kay Cabot? Are you kidding?

Your selective approval/disapproval of certain news media personalities is frighteningly connected to your agenda.

Funny that none of the players have said anything about a distraction. It's all a big nothing all around and the ONE guy who should have kept his desires in-house simply did not. Nobody cares except those who wish to bash Baker.

I'm not too concerned about what some washed up rapper thinks about Baker.

Time to move on.

Doesn't matter when Hunt can't stay out of trouble. It will be a miracle if the guy even makes it to week 8. He is a knucklehead, he can't help himself, he is too stupid to get out of his own way...he will be in trouble again soon. count on it.

Johhson was "good enough" as a compliment to Chubb that we didn't need to sign such a distraction like Hunt. That money and focus could have been spent elsewhere. There is a reason no one but Dorsey was calling him. The guy is a problem and one we don't need.

Mayfield is too bought into his own hype. He thinks he has the league whipped, he thinks he is the man. He hasn't proven anything to be saying the stuff he is saying.

He played 7 games a rookie and didn't suck? Congrats...it still doesn't anoint him for anything. He isn't established, he hasn't proven a damn thing.

I think he gets humbled this year. Baker had a lot of factors working in his favor last year. No one knew anything of Kitchens playbook or playcalling, and there was not extensive film on Baker nor time to study such film. this year will be a whole different story...as i said...i think the kid gets humbled big time this year. Teams are actually going to specifically gameplan for him. I think Baker will try and do exactly what he did last year..I don't think he has changed his game one bit...and he is gonna find out real quick you need a lot more than just talent and an arm to be a good NFL QB

Just because Mary Kay wants to create the impression of there being a problem does not mean that there is one.

After Baker said what he said, he and Duke were on the field and working together the rest of that day. There are reports on it, go find them.

What Mary Kay or Tony or any poster on this board says means nothing - if the players themselves demonstrate that there isn't a problem, then there isn't a problem. It really is just that simple.

Stop while your behind. My advice.

Baker didn't suck! Hmmmm. No he didn't. You are correct. Repeat after me .... Baker had one of the best if not THE best rookie seasons for a QB in the history of the NFL.

Could he have handled the Duke situation better when asked, sure. Is it a big deal in the scheme of things ? No. Have the wheels fallen off like u claimed. No. Are you making silly claims based on your dislike of BM. Most definitely.

Heres the narrative:

"Duke should not have talked to the media about those request. He should have kept it "in-house"

"Baker is an idiot"

I actually don't have a problem with either of them going to the media.

Duke more than likely went in house and was shut down, so he is doing what he believes is right for him.

Baker - the LEADER of this football team, is coming out to let others know that if you don't want to be on this team, there is the door.

I don't fault either for their roles in these MOLE HILLS. They are nothing burgers to be honest. But your hate for the kid is clouding your judgement and rather funny to watch.

I'm surprised that certain folks are leaning on attacking my character to "win" an argument. It's never happened before.

Yes. They guy that used "lowest of the low" and "that's who you are" to describe someone and then had to apologize for providing the board wrong information in the debate is now complaining about character attacks.

who also just minutes ago was complaining about people using "internet muscles" in another thread trying to attack them there. . . .

Also, how is me pointing out you hate someone (which you have admitted multiple times on the board in hating baker and calling him an immature idiot), character attacks?

"Woe is me" schticks get old.

And their off again.........

** they're

Thank you for the correction.

I would like to add that it would be nice if we could comment in the Pure Football forum about our opinions w/out having to fear being attacked by multiple posters at a time for having a different opinion.

You disagreed w/me, but did not feel the need to attack my character. You stated your reasons for disagreeing. I think that is the way to disagree. I see no need for the character attacks. It discourages conversation and derails threads.

Once again, please point out "character attack". . . .

I provided proof in your own words of things you have stated on this board, and showed how your are one sided when it comes to Baker. You don't like the fact when people call you out - and then try to make it as an "attack" on you. You do it to everyone that has a difference of opinion with you. See the "mini modding" thread in the feedback forum where Eve slams you for doing so.

j/c

I gave my opinion on the subject. I did not attack anyone. Each one of those guys responded to my posts. I did not go after them. Yet, you act like I started it?

And thanks to the rest of you idly stand by and watch a 5 against 1 throw down that never should have been. I did not say anything that was out of bounds. It's sad that different opinions are not permitted w/out ridicule on this board and then everyone else stands around and says....."glad, it's not me."