DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Offensive Install Transition Slow to Mesh

j/c

My guess, and it's a guess, is that last year Freddie adjusted Haley's overall offensive structure to his style. This year he's trying to replace Haley's structure with his own.

Most teams in the AFC North don't change their Coordinators and Head Coaches every single ingle ingle ingle year;

but claims of it matters who the coaches are can face opposition.

What bothers me is that Jarvis Landry is saying it's hard to learn. Consensous would agree Jarvis is smart, experienced and likely ready to understand as much as anyone could expect: So!

Angry Face:

How hard is it to keep it simple, stupid.

You'd think after they blew it all up mid-season 2018 that they'd keep some of the 2nd playbook in tact.

Seems everytime they bring in a new face, ( this time Monken), that everything gets turned into Mud and folks act like it's the first time anyone has ever seen a football.

Good luck with the install, hope this time it keeps!

He didn't say it's hard to learn. He said there is a lot to lean and it takes time.

I am not worried at all after a few OTA's and a 3 day mini camp. You are not going to install a new O after 3 days where the entire team had to be there.

Chill

I'm not sure why people are having a hard time understanding that it's a process. At the very beginning things will be raw and in the beginning phase. As time goes along the transition becomes smoother.

Anyone who remembers or bothers to look, sees that the D is always ahead of the O at the beginning of OTA's and continues into the beginning of training camp. This is really nothing new at all and shouldn't be a surprise or a concern to anyone.

j/c:

If the only tape the opposition has on Baker is in the Haley or Kitchens/Haley offense from last year, maybe it's a positive thing that we're going to be giving teams a bit of a new look.

And as the season goes on, we'll be adding more pieces, bit by bit.

My outlook on this year's offense has always been tempered by the fact that there was going to be a learning curve (even if Kitchens is still the brains behind it).

It might take some time for fans to see the high-flying, quick strike, dynamic offense that many are expecting right out of the gate.

Here's hoping Chubb and the offensive line hold up well until we're able to hit on all cylinders.

I guess I'm saying that I'm not particularly worried. Just stating a lot of obvious stuff.

j/c:

I am not "worried" about the install being slow to mesh. That seems like melodrama to me.

I just question installing the Air Raid offense. Not sure I am a fan. I could be wrong about that, though.

I just liked the offense we ran when Freddie took over last year. I thought it was creative, played to our strengths, and was a good fit for Baker.

Agree.

Hot take: Monken will be gone by mid season.

"Hot take: Monken will be gone by mid season."

Good lord, I hope not - if for no other reason than that would probably mean we are well below .500.

I did as well, but it was still Haleys O that was modified week by week by Freddie.

I don't mind components of the "Air Raid", it plays to Bakers strength. I don't think we are going to be throwing the ball 55 times a game. It's a work in progress. Call it the North Coast O. I don't know how well Freddie and Monken will work together, but I think we will be happy with the end result. I hope so anyway, as I know you do as well.

Football evolves. Lets hope we evolve it to something special. Heck, we ran some wishbone and inverted wishbone. We may go back to some of that. The wishbone was a good scheme, but you have to have the right players. The immobile QBs the NFL favored didn't allow it to be run in the late 60's and 70's.

No doubt it has to be modified. You don't want to run your QB 15 times a game and get hit another 30 times a game, but as a change of pace, brilliant!

My attitude is lets see how things are looking in late August after 6-7 weeks of team practice. Three day with the entire team and a few day here and there with partial participation don't tell the story.....and I know you didn't say it did

Why would you think that?

Freddie took over an O mid point last season ... how he handled the process was

- talk to the players to see what kind of plays they liked and fit their skill sets ...
- asked for and listened to his asst. coaches input ....
- DESIGNED and just as importantly CALLED plays that were great plays if it was his O ... considering he was tweaking someone else’s mid season makes it even more remarkable ...

I understand Freddie’s in a different position with different responsibilities but i highly doubt he’s GOING TO CHANGE HIS COACHING PHILOSOPHIES AND HOW HE DOES THINGS .... for that reason and the FACT Monken said more than once that the O would be a combo of both of there O’s and one of the reasons he came here was to work with Freddie cause of his coaching philosophies tells me were gonna be just fine in this regard ...

Of course it will be a new O .... its a new staff .... i feel very confident they will design and call plays that utilize the talent on this team ... no reason to think otherwise based on Freddie’s coaching philosophies ...

and thats extremely easy to say with ALL THE TALENT AT THEIR DISPOSAL .... that talent can hide bad play calls and make most others look way better than most teams in the league can ...

I expect this will be a dynamic, complicated, multifaceted offense that will take a good deal of time getting everyone on the same page. But so what? It will likely be the offense for years to come. It needs to be complicated and multifaceted because there are so many moving parts: a super dynamic backfield capable of running and catching, probably the best WR corps in the league with at least four WRs capable of starting and scoring every time they get the ball, and a TE corps that will be powerful, fast, and threatening. Each one of those position groups will have the ability to create matchup nightmares and every single play will have multiple variations and multiple options within those variations. With an offense this stacked with talent, every playmaker on the field has an excellent chance of getting the ball on any given play call, depending on the matchup, down and distance, situation, and intent. I would be completely shocked if there weren't complications getting the offense installed, or if it didn't take quite a bit of time getting everyone rowing the same direction. Shocked!

j/c

I often learn something from articles posted on the Brownsmaven , this is no exception.

Read it and draw your own conclusions.

That's a reasonable, well thought out take there.

Some of the hysteria we see this time of year is odd. I guess that's what happens when there's not a lot to write about.

Reading this post made the hairs on my arms stand at attention. re: last sentence- I'm expecting the bugs to be worked out by Game 12. Additionally, I feel that we have enough raw talent to overcome the in-game bugs that are inevitable. Contrary to previous years, I think this team will not be doomed by one or two in-game mishaps, and that all games are winnable.


.02

My thinking is that the team engine will settling into peak efficiency about mid-season.

I think (hope) the offense will be running fairly smoothly before that. I believe this talented group is comprised of hard workers, and that the players and coaches will do whatever is necessary to get the offense on track. I would also expect by the time the season begins, they will be using a modified version of the total offense, consisting of plays they execute well and have the most chance of success, modifying as the season goes along, and as they game plan for upcoming opponents. Not that mistakes won't be made, but as you pointed out, the occasional mistake or two shouldn't mean a loss. I also agree that most games should be winnable, and expect us to be in each one.

Does anyone know of Pete Smith's credentials? He kinda sounds like some of the dudes on our message board.

Member of the FWAA and a QB coach is what I found.

Report of Todd Monken having issues with Cleveland Browns is nonsense

by
Pete Smith
20 hrs
link

After a report that new offensive coordinator Todd Monken was having issues fitting in with the Cleveland Browns, Jarvis Landry scoffed at the notion when asked. There is a fundamental understanding what Todd Monken was hired to do with the Browns

When asked about a report that new Cleveland Browns offensive coordinator Todd Monken was having difficulty fitting in his role under Freddie Kitchens and the team in general, Jarvis Landry was at first confused before scoffing at the notion.

Much of the disconnect on this topic seems to be a misunderstanding of what Todd Monken was actually hired to do. Monken was hired to add to the offense Kitchens runs as well as try to make it more efficient. He was not hired to come in and install and run a new one.

Certainly, he will have some impact on how and what Kitchens will do this coming season in terms of their scheme, but it's still Kitchens' offense and Kitchens is the one who is going to be calling the plays.

Monken's value will be shown in how he breaks down and gameplans against opponents and the feedback he's able to provide during the game as well as just acting as a sounding board to bounce ideas of off. The goal is to help Kitchens cut down and eliminate zero or negative play calls while trying to add more explosive ones.

For the time being, it makes a ton of sense for Kitchens to do most of the heavy lifting in teaching and running meetings. After all, who would know more about his offense than he does? Monken is still going to do those things, but it may not be as much as he will when the Browns get on a more regular schedule.

When the Browns start playing games, Kitchens will have more demands on his time and ability to do these types of things. Kitchens has to make sure he knows what's going on with the defense, special teams and roster decisions. That's not including choices Kitchens has to make on day to day operations and other responsibilities.

Everything about this report seems contrived. At best, it's failing to understand what Monken was hired to do. At worst, it's an attempt to sew discord and doubt around the Browns by someone with less than honest intentions.

Regardless, this isn't a big deal. It's a nothing deal, which is how Landry reacted to it. Monken is doing the job he was hired to do and there's little reason to think that will change between now and the regular season.
This is Pete Smith for Browns Maven

He seems to be saying the same things Jarvis Landry has been saying. As with most of the “controversies” we talk about this seems like another non story story.

You could be right and I hope you are. I just have a hard time accepting how legit Pete Smith is due that photo [or whatever it is] of him that precedes each of his articles. LOL..........he looks like a wizard from a fantasy movie.

I’m expecting FIREWORKS out of the gate and then as we “gel” i expect to see one of the best O’s in the league with the potential to do some historic things ...

WE’VE GOT THAT MUCH TALENT ...

Your right its gonna take time for it to come together ... but the talent on this O should be able to put points up from day 1 ... we simply have to much talent ...

I’m not being a homer and i’m not kidding ...

Not only do we have one of the premiere WR’s in the league along with a #2 thats a top 10 - 15 WR in the league we have an extremely gifted RB going into year 2 who if he started all year very well would have been right there neck and neck in the rookie of the year voting ... dude could put himself in the Zeke/Barclay category if he does what he did last year for an entire season ... and oh by the way ... one report i read said he’s CATCHING EVERYTHING ... just we need ... another dimension ... *LOL* ...

Our #3 WR could end up a legite STUD ... he has the type of physical of ability ... how good he becomes depends on him ...

Seriously bro ... look through the history of the league ... IF Bake is who we think he is and doesn’t suffer a sophomore slump ... HOW DO U DEFEND THIS ...

OBJ ... VG ... Callaway ... Njoku ... Chubb ...

Then u mix and match Higgins/Duke and then when we get Hunt back it’s not even gonna be fair ...

It will take time to mesh and become a well oiled machine ... with that talent and their ability to win one on one matchups ... there should be no lack of production during the “meshing” period ...

just clickin'

Given that the offense is a Frankenstein Monster being put together from parts of Freddy, parts of Monken, and parts of whatshisnamefromGreenBay, I would expect that at the outset, they would have only a rough idea and a framework of what they want it to be, and I would expect things to morph and evolve early on as the coaches start to see things on the field. They aren't just installing a new offense here, they are CREATING a new offense from concepts they all used elsewhere.... and knowing Freddy, they're then taking this new offense and fitting it to what our players can actually do well.

If things are "sluggish" in August, there'll be something to write about. In June? Pffft.... WAY to early to drum up faux panic.

One of the important points to make is that it is indeed a new offense. These things take time to install, for players to learn, and become comfortable with.

Offenses require timing, precision, accuracy, players to know their assignments and hot routes, and so on. Add to this that the mandatory portion of the offseason schedule is a lot briefer than some might expect, and it's going to take time to fine-tune the offense.

I'm just putting this out there because early in the season, and week 1 in particular, is notorious for sloppy football. Teams with new coaches and new offenses are particularly susceptible to it. I'm not saying that it's going to happen to us, I'm just saying that it could and hopefully people don't lose their minds if it does.

You've never seen the Monty Python movies?

How do you defend this? I ain't no professional but

you defend it by you attack the weakness, you ask the Browns to beat you with the outside run, which they rarely use, you get the Qb out of the pocket and force only the deepest, over the top options to be open.
I line my nose tackle up over the guards opposite shoulder, and attempt to force your O-guard into your Center all day long, I send two blitzers into this guard gap until you stop it, when you do, I switch from harassing Corbett, to harassing Bitonio.

When they have 6 targets impossible to defend, there's only one thing to do, disrupt that (1) quarterback,

Every defense leaves something open, I'm going to focus up the middle, right in the Qb's face, all day, and ask them to beat me with out routes to the tight end and outside runs, Neither are the Browns favorite go to plays, Good luck.

Point is, the NFL has had talented teams every year, it's just what the NFL is, nothing is unstoppable except for short periods of time, and all games are a chess match between the coaches.

We should be worried how much this defense is going to miss Peppers, and Gregg Williams, or not miss them.

I really like Peppers... but Peppers and Gregg Williams are the last two things I think about when it comes to this upcoming season. lol.