|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 832
All Pro
|
All Pro
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 832 |
The 5 year plan is fine. The problem is... there need to be signs of progress. If Crennell went 4-12 in 2005 and 6-10 in 2006 - there would be a reason to think we are on the right path. Reality is - we went 6-10 in 2005 and then took a couple of steps backward (4-12) in 2006. This season has started in a way that makes 4-12 look probable. As an analogy, if I were an 'D' student at the beginning of the year and I told you that I would be an 'A' student at the end of the year... Seeing my grades drop to 'F' by mid-terms would not instill much confidence. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
Nothing wrong with favoring a guy who works hard and is willing to be coached.
But he still allowed the comp which means that FAVORTISM took a backseat.
Otherwise he would have not allowed it.
It's not all a landslide that you make it out to be.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 09/12/07 01:08 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,549
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,549 |
Progress generally means you do get better.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,549
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,549 |
Nope....nothing wrong with favoring someone.
You just need to be sure you pick the right guy.
It is pretty clear Romeo hitched his wagon to the wrong horse.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
And so he shoulda hitched it to DA first?
U like him..I don't...I see he's a time bomb waiting to implode.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
A bad play by our punter and a three and out,shouldn't put our team down for the count.
You sort of left out the int thrown into triple coverage and the fumble by a guy not known to fumble... all in the first 4 drives.... but that's ok, it's only details.. And I'll assume since you didn't answer it, that you really have no idea what RAC could have done differently or what Cowher might have done to prevent us from being in that early hole....
Quote:
ANY time this team falls behind,they fall apart.
Behind by how many? They did do that a couple times last year... they also blew a couple games they should have won... problem is, I give most of the blame to the leaders on the field, not the leaders on the sidelines...
But how much credit does RAC deserve for being in the Saints game until the final drive? They were in the NFC Championship game... He lost to the Ravens by 1 freakin' point, they went 13-3... He lost to the Chargers by a touchdown, they went 14-4... He beat the Jets and the Chiefs, they BOTH made the playoffs...
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,549
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,549 |
Yes....he should have.
As to implode....he can't do worse than what we saw out of Chuck...and in the end, it doesn't really matter...all he has to do is be a decent back-up because Quinn is the starter....has been since the minute we drafted him.
You have to look past the small, short-term picture of 2-3-4 games...Anderson has a superior skill set to Charlie...the things that can cause Anderson to fall apart can be worked on.....doesn't mean it will work....but they can be worked on...especially as a back-up..
Charlie was limited physically....heck..we even saw a comment about with Anderson we can open up the entire playbook.
Being limited physically and having to work a limited playbook isn't a quality that usually leads to players sticking with a team as a back-up.
In another system, Charlie might find his pot of gold....I hope he does. With this team, it wasn't a marriage that was going to work.
Romeo should have been able to see this...couldn't, and now finds himself on the brink of being released.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,235
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,235 |
Frye will never be a full time starter in the NFL, period. Romeo wanted to hang on to Frye because of his obsession with fast food. Romeo couldn't let Frye go, he doesn't let ANYONE take his food and you can tell... Maybe Romeo mistook Frye for some french fries and couldn't let him go until Seattle offered a super size order?
I wonder how much Romeo weighs, it just seems like he keeps getting bigger.
Cleveland Browns, Space Browns ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/iVP5Po2.png)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,549
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,549 |
That really has nothing to do with why Romeo needs to go.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
That really has nothing to do with anything... it's a lame attempt at humor.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,235
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,235 |
You guys are so serious sometimes 
Cleveland Browns, Space Browns
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
I just don't think fat jokes about RAC are funny... Rosie O'Donnel yea, RAC no. 
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,070
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,070 |
Quote:
I just don't think fat jokes about RAC are funny... Rosie O'Donnel yea, RAC no.
Last edited by Referee6; 09/13/07 12:38 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,235
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,235 |
Last edited by CleVeLaNd_sTrife; 09/12/07 03:49 PM.
Cleveland Browns, Space Browns
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
... tell me, what exactly could RAC have done differently?
Tell me one thing RAC has done during his tenure as a head coach that has made any difference whatsoever?
Or a difference that others couldn't have made?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
See, now that's funny... 
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,313
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,313 |
But so so ugly....
nordawg
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Quote:
... tell me, what exactly could RAC have done differently?
Tell me one thing RAC has done during his tenure as a head coach that has made any difference whatsoever?
Or a difference that others couldn't have made?
It's not polite to answer a question with a question.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
... tell me, what exactly could RAC have done differently?
Tell me one thing RAC has done during his tenure as a head coach that has made any difference whatsoever?
Or a difference that others couldn't have made?
It's not polite to answer a question with a question.
Seriously, though...to you or anyone...why? What has he shown?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Ok fine Phil.. I'll answer your question first, but then you better go back and answer mine..
What has he shown? Not much. It's funny though how for darn near a decade we have excused poor QB play because the OL was weak but we won't excuse what appears to be poor coaching when we are weak at 20 of the 22 positions.... In all seriousness, I think we have decent talent, I also think the Steelers game was an anomaly... if the level of play isn't vastly improved over the next couple weeks, I'll be sliding right in beside you on the bus to ride RAC out of town.. I just think you are going to see better play. I don't think the Steelers game was poor planning, poor coaching, or poor motivation... as I said very early on, it was a perfect storm of events...
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 601
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 601 |
Quote:
The 5 year plan is fine. The problem is... there need to be signs of progress.
If Crennell went 4-12 in 2005 and 6-10 in 2006 - there would be a reason to think we are on the right path.
Reality is - we went 6-10 in 2005 and then took a couple of steps backward (4-12) in 2006. This season has started in a way that makes 4-12 look probable.
As an analogy, if I were an 'D' student at the beginning of the year and I told you that I would be an 'A' student at the end of the year... Seeing my grades drop to 'F' by mid-terms would not instill much confidence.
Great post and to add an element that you MAY have already thought of, the F.O. CONTINUOUSLY throws out the excuse of HOW bad of a team they were handed... And let's be honest, they have EVERY right to because it was a HORRIBLE roster... But check the win total... Irony has it that the 1st year (technically their most talent deprived one) with HAC and Opie has been their best year...
To me, Phil and Romeo can talk about the pile of poo they were handed but th poo they had formed a solid turd... Now it seems we are dealing with just a bad case of the runs at this point...
When will the HAC lovers see the guy for what he is?
EXCUSES excuses.... They are handed out mightily around here until the person is gone and then the same people that coddled the person talk as if they saw it coming all along... I am not going to call them out by name but some of the intelligent posters around here see right through them...
So why give someone 5 years when it is PAINFULLY obvious in 3, that they cannot cut the mustard...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,720
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,720 |
Quote:
I'm pretty sure that Savage and Crennel had stated coming into their current positions that this was going to be a 5 year plan of rebuilding this franchise---
Yes,Phil said that. Not sure about RAC saying it. But Phil never said that five year plan didn't include another head coach in years four and five did he?
Quote:
why would you have them fired after three when they are making headway in the personnel department, and are on the verge of having some success on the field?
Them? Them who? Phil and Marty can work together IMO. This thread isn't about Phil going anywhere.
We've ALREADY made headway in personnel. Just none on the field of play. Have you been watching the games? If so,you've already answerred your own question. There is NO damned "success on the field" and you can't show ANY signs that sticking with RAC is going to produce any. We looked worse than we did in the first game he coached with "Botch's scrubs" than with the far better talent we have now. You don't see a problem with that?
Quote:
Oh yea, because this is Ctown and we want to change things up every few years.
Unlike some,we want somebody that can do their job. You can bet on the same losing,long shot horse untill all the way up untill it goes to the glue factory if you want to. But all you'll do is lose all of your money. Sticking with someone who can't win is not all that noble nor productive in the grand scheme of things.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,720
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,720 |
Quote:
Progress generally means you do get better.
Sorry Peen.
Just wanted to put that in bold type. Some people just have more trouble grasping that concept than others.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855 |
Quote:
Yes,Phil said that. Not sure about RAC saying it. But Phil never said that five year plan didn't include another head coach in years four and five did he?
Did you expect him to say that? I mean really,, I can see the press conference now.
REPORTER: Phil,, how many Head Coaching change do you feel you will need to make during your 5 year plan?
PHIL SAVAGE: Well, I've given this some careful thought and I feel as if we will need one to take the heat for the failures that are going to take place during the rebuilding,, then we will need one to appease the fans and media but won't have a clue, then we'll get our real head coach... So that would be 3!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,720
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,720 |
Quote:
Did you expect him to say that? I mean really,, I can see the press conference now.
Nope I didn't expect him to "say it". That doesn't mean he didn't,hasn't or won't have it under consideration.
Quote:
REPORTER: Phil,, how many Head Coaching change do you feel you will need to make during your 5 year plan?
PHIL SAVAGE: Well, I've given this some careful thought and I feel as if we will need one to take the heat for the failures that are going to take place during the rebuilding,, then we will need one to appease the fans and media but won't have a clue, then we'll get our real head coach... So that would be 3!
No,I figured he would just make the one more hire. Total of two head coaches.(sort of like our QB situation?) Hire the guy to take the heat just as the fill in untill he acquired enough talent and had things set up for "the real coach". But I still didn't expect him to say it.
Sort of like the "Charlie Frye" of head coaching. Frye took the heat untill we got a real QB. RAC takes the heat untill the situation is right to attract a worthy coaching candidate.
You are right that Phil couldn't say it. But I believe he was smart enough to be thinking it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855 |
Quote:
You are right that Phil couldn't say it. But I believe he was smart enough to be thinking it.
I would hope he'd allow for it if needed, but I also hope that he tried to hire someone that he thought could do the job..
NOW, having said that, there was discussion that he wanted Kirk Ferantz to begin with.. remember that,, could have been the media just talking it up, but then again, maybe not. They do have history together from the Bill "Im a cheater" Belichick era here in Cleveland. So it's possible.
So maybe he is warming the seat up for Kirk,, I don't know. But NOTHING would surprise me,,, not anymore.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
Quote:
Quote:
Did you expect him to say that? I mean really,, I can see the press conference now.
Nope I didn't expect him to "say it". That doesn't mean he didn't,hasn't or won't have it under consideration.
Quote:
REPORTER: Phil,, how many Head Coaching change do you feel you will need to make during your 5 year plan?
PHIL SAVAGE: Well, I've given this some careful thought and I feel as if we will need one to take the heat for the failures that are going to take place during the rebuilding,, then we will need one to appease the fans and media but won't have a clue, then we'll get our real head coach... So that would be 3!
No,I figured he would just make the one more hire. Total of two head coaches.(sort of like our QB situation?) Hire the guy to take the heat just as the fill in untill he acquired enough talent and had things set up for "the real coach". But I still didn't expect him to say it.
Sort of like the "Charlie Frye" of head coaching. Frye took the heat untill we got a real QB. RAC takes the heat untill the situation is right to attract a worthy coaching candidate.
You are right that Phil couldn't say it. But I believe he was smart enough to be thinking it.
I was thinking of this scenario the other day.
I was gonna call it the "Paul Silas Approach." Silas held down the Cavalier fort for two years while the roster was being built. Paxson even said that was the case before he himself got the ax.
It wouldn't surprise me of all along that was the plan...sucks for RAC and fans, but it makes sense. I don't see why Phil would be so adamantly supportive of RAC if that were the case though...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,549
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,549 |
I think you are going to see that support slip on a weekly basis.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,720
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,720 |
Quote:
I would hope he'd allow for it if needed, but I also hope that he tried to hire someone that he thought could do the job..
I think that's a big part of the problem. He had what,two months before the draft when he was hired? I think he hired the best candidate he could find willing to make a suicide pack!
Quote:
NOW, having said that, there was discussion that he wanted Kirk Ferantz to begin with.. remember that,, could have been the media just talking it up, but then again, maybe not. They do have history together from the Bill "Im a cheater" Belichick era here in Cleveland. So it's possible.
I've heard from MANY places that RAC wasn't his first choice,and maybe not even his SECOND choice. But as I mentioned,time was off the essance. You see,to lure a "top notch coach/candidate" there has to be some enticement involved. There has to be a situation that they can see a core of players they can build success on. They won't set themselves up for failure.
That's why Phils choices were slim and none! So he had to hire "slim".
Two months from the draft,a total rebuild needed,hungry fans,rough press.................... (should I go on)?
Finding a top rated Coach to walk into that situation would be damned near impossible IMO Damon. They have careers,futures and reputations to keep in tact. Walking into that situation would do nothing to further any of those things.
So Phil grabbed the best guy he could get his hands on at the time. But times have changed.
We have hellatious talent assembled on the OL. The brightest young QB to build around. KW2 and yet another hellatious LB unit! There's a core to build around. Coaches out there can see this talent that Phil has assembled. They may very well see enough to entice them here NOW.
Quote:
So maybe he is warming the seat up for Kirk,, I don't know. But NOTHING would surprise me,,, not anymore.
Or,maybe Phil thought Kirk was the best he could do "in that situation at the time". He may feel he could do even better now.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,720
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,720 |
Quote:
It wouldn't surprise me of all along that was the plan...sucks for RAC and fans, but it makes sense. I don't see why Phil would be so adamantly supportive of RAC if that were the case though...
Support? Oh,you mean ie...the press. In the public eye. In the spotlight. That kind of support?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 93
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 93 |
Quote:
I think you are going to see that support slip on a weekly basis.
Sadly, it slipped really far this week. There are only a few left with brown and orange goggles that are saying OH ROMEO. Hopefully Phil and Randy dump him soon...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 901
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 901 |
OH Romeo! There had to say it.
I sure hope we don't get rid of him right away. I don't see the Charlie Frye thing being on Crennel. That was Phil not him, and I don't think it happend JUST because of the steelers game.
How about............we wait a couple games to see what is up. We wait to see just how bad/good we really are. We wait till Brady Quinn starts and see how that goes. I AM NOT for changing coaches just because we don't seem to be very good. Players play, coaches coach. Coaches don't play.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 435
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 435 |
I agree.
This team is being built in Savage's image, not RAC's.
It would be interesting to fire him and just have 2 separate units. Didnt you mention that before? Having Savage do all personel and Chud run the O, Grantham all the D. With NO head coach?
A small part of me wouldnt be surprised if that happened, as strange as it seems.
"I don't remember any of my catches. I remember the drops." - Kellen Winslow II
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 184
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 184 |
Quote:
It shouldn't take 3 years of ass kickings to finally get inspired.
This says it...Romeo is used to taking orders from Bill and is now in position to guide the team but first he has to create the team. He has not created a team that believes and works together. They may say they want to win but they sure don't play to their ability. Romeo has made some good decisions regarding player off the field actions and game penalties but he is not able to create a strong team that uses its talent. Look at Cower or Marty for examples.
The Carthon debacle was very revealing. Carthon not only killed our Oline and hurt our offense he started a team conflict that was exposed on the field. We lost Dilfer our Only experienced QB and then Carthon was dumped. He also let Edwards "act out" for at least a season with no penalties. Crennel didn't take control there and didn't take control to chose a QB early so he could learn the offense. All confidence killers and destructive to a good team.
Our problem is how will we be able to attract a quality coach without a stable front office? Savage should have pushed Crennel to get the team ready instead of promoting his new draft pick Quinn. Will Savage hurt our chances to attract a new coach? The big question is who is in charge?
Last edited by DG; 09/12/07 11:00 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,549
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,549 |
I mentioned that before....sort of a co-coach deal...or even with Savage acting as the "head coach". I know it sounds crazy, but when you look at how it is setting up and the crazy stuff we have seen over the years....who knows??
To DG..I think the front of the house is stable enough, and this doesn't do anything more to keep viable candidates away any more than already would.
With a strong GM set-up as we have, some coaches wouldn't be interested unless they had final draft and roster control.
To me, the big problem with this whole deal isn't that we cut/traded our qb after a game. The problem is we made him the starter in the first place. Had Charlie been a 2nd or 3rd team guy that first game, few outside of a few CF fans would give half a flip.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855 |
Quote:
We have hellatious talent assembled on the OL. The brightest young QB to build around. KW2 and yet another hellatious LB unit! There's a core to build around. Coaches out there can see this talent that Phil has assembled. They may very well see enough to entice them here NOW.
You have just given me one more reason to stick with RAC this season.. We DO finally have some talent. RAC hasn't really had that luxury since coming here..
So, now when we do have some talent, some want to kick him to the curb..
I guess someone has to be the fall guy,, might as well be RAC!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,549
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,549 |
Then we need to see some results.
The reality is RAC has 2-3 more games. His future depends on how we do over the next few games.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 874
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 874 |
Quote:
sort of a co-coach deal
...nope, I'm not fond of that one.
The central figure needs to make the crucial game decisions.....when to call time out(s), to go for it on 4th down or not, to go for the 2 pnt conversion, to challenge a play or not (actually, we'd probably be better off if we let the water boy handle that one), etc...
We can't have the 2 coordinators fighting over those issues...It's gotta come from the HC (and not the owner or GM...etc).
![[Linked Image from members.cox.net]](http://members.cox.net/flyinc5/smallsigpics/frcburnout.gif) AL 29 76 14 R_K
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,549
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,549 |
Hold on now....I am not promoting that...that was simply bar talk without the bar and beer.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 874
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 874 |
...are you sure? sounds like a beer induced thought.
AL 29 76 14 R_K
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Why Romeo needs to go soon.
|
|
