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Pit,
Yes, leading, progressing and winning are essential things for a coach to do, BUT two of those things( progressing/winning) do not happen without TALENT!!! You can lead, you will progress to a point, but you will not win without TALENT!!!
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According to everything I've heard and read, RAC is the former. He doesn't have to yell and scream in public to get the job done and have his players believe in him. This isn't high school. You keep forgetting that.
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Ammo,
Yes, you would rather have the guy that you'd do anything for, but in that list I gave of coaches, most of the players that played for Laundry did not like him! They respected him. Hell, look at what some of the Pit players are saying about Cowher vs Tomlin. But they respected Cowher!
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Legend
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A person has to stay with-in their personality type.
A Dungy wouldn't make it as a Ditka and Ditka wouldn't make it as a Dungy.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I agree. I also don't know if RAC is a NFL head coach or not. I just think that we are all forgetting where we're at with this season. Some of us have been saying since pre-season that it would take 4 or 5 games for the offense to gel. I'm not going to make a judgement until then and Quinn is under center. That's when I feel you can judge RAC.
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I think I do know.
We will have no more time to prepare for an opponent than we did last week.
Add in home game, heated rival, been punked by them the last outing....we put everything we had into that game...it wasn't because we lacked preparation...it is because the preparation lacked.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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TBH who are we going to let coach this team if we fire Romeo???
I think because we started the year with him, we will end the year with him.
![[Linked Image from i4.photobucket.com]](http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/Defiantmac/nickk2.jpg) PRO-BOWLER!
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Quote:
According to everything I've heard and read, RAC is the former. He doesn't have to yell and scream in public to get the job done
Exactly what job is it that he's "done"?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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The job isn't done, it's still in the process. A football team isn't a TV dinner where you pop it in the microwave for 3 minutes and it's ready.
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Legend
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Quote:
Pit,
Yes, leading, progressing and winning are essential things for a coach to do, BUT two of those things( progressing/winning) do not happen without TALENT!!! You can lead, you will progress to a point, but you will not win without TALENT!!!
They've replaced almost everyone on the roster with "their guys". If we don't have the talent,who's at fault there?
Who said anything about "winning"? What MOST are talking about is simply this.
After three drafts,three FA signing periods,we should be able to COMPETE! You know,look like we actually BELONG on the FIELD with our divisional oponents?
Are you trying to insinuate we don't have enough talent to play better than what we saw on the field last Sunday? Is THAT what you're trying to say?
And after watching that game,can you please tell me, "To what point have we progressed to?"
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Next week will simply intensify my position or soften it some...that is how it works.
I agree. I don't think I'm as far down the "intensify" path as you are, but I agree with the logic... what messes me up is that last year, we would look horrible one week, then come out and play tough against the Chargers, then be awful the next week.. it would be much easier to make up my mind if we were either consistently better or consistently worse...
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
The job isn't done, it's still in the process. A football team isn't a TV dinner where you pop it in the microwave for 3 minutes and it's ready.
And please tell me how far we have come in that "process"? That's the ENTIRE point! We've gone NOWHERE!
I can only speak for myself here,but I understand it's a "process". And having said that,you see development and encouraging signs "during a process". You see a cause for optimism "during a process".
That's all I believe most expected to see. Our teams development,not a finished product. Of course it isn't "a TV dinner".
But going into the third year? You should at least be able to smell a bit of aroma coming from the kitchen. A process includes steps from A-Z.
Being competative is a part of that process. And we're not.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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it would be much easier to make up my mind if we were either consistently better or consistently worse...
That confused me too. But it's time to expect "consistancy" IMO.
How can you have the talent to be competative one week yet look like a pee wee football team the next week?
We need to expect more than that in year three.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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1-12 in the division thats pretty damn consistent.
BTW the process should be going from getting your ass handed to you, to competitive to winning. Well 3 years and we are still in the ass handed to you stage.
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And please tell me how far we have come in that "process"? That's the ENTIRE point! We've gone NOWHERE!
It looks that way to you..fact is Phil tore the team down and started rebuilding it ...differently than some of us would have but he's rebuilding the team.
U realize depth had to be brought in besides starters?
He revamped the Oline and we have to give them 5 -6 games to gell..
I said that right after FA came and we acquired all these guys.
The defense is not where it needs to be and perhaps they're a reactive bunch instead of proactive..
we've got young guys who need experience and a bit of brains(Pool)..
I don't expect them to play lathargic for 15 more games.
We will be competitive..
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Are you trying to insinuate we don't have enough talent to play better than what we saw on the field last Sunday? Is THAT what you're trying to say?
I know that I have never missed a game since the Browns have been back, and maybe it's just because I expected more, but IF the Browns play another game like they did last sunday............
I don't know,
I WILL NEVER GIVE UP BEING A FAN, but I may just have to turn off the TV for the 1st time I can remember.
I DO NOT WANT TO GO THROUGH ANOTHER COACHING CHANGE, but I just can't watch much more of the football I saw last sunday. I have tried pushing most of the blame for that debacle on the way we started that game, and on Frye's play. But, maybe I am just trying to aviod saying that Romeo must go.
Guys, I am just rambling here, but I am just SO TIRED of making excuses for my team.........
I said before the season started that I wanted Brady to ride the bench all yr.
I said before the season started that Romeo should be given another yr. to turn things around.
After ONE GAME.............I am questioning both of those statements. 
Look, I am still going to put up my Browns inflatable every sunday, I am still going to dress my kids in thier Browns gear, I am still going to watch and cheer like their isn't going to be another sunday.............but for the first time that I can remember............I am.............well let's jsut say that I hope we at least play a respectable game.
Guys, don't take this post wrong, I WILL NEVER GIVE UP THE BROWNS......I am just more disappionted in my team than I can ever remember being.
And someone needs to take reposiblitly for what is on the field each sunday.
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
Go ARMY......Beat Navy!!!!!!
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I don't expect them to play lathargic for 15 more games.
We will be competitive..
Consistantly competative?
Or is it your assertion we simply lack the talent to be "consistantly competative"?
If not,why is it we couldn't even look REMOTELY competative in a game we've had so long to prepare for?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
The job isn't done, it's still in the process. A football team isn't a TV dinner where you pop it in the microwave for 3 minutes and it's ready.
And please tell me how far we have come in that "process"? That's the ENTIRE point! We've gone NOWHERE!
I can only speak for myself here,but I understand it's a "process". And having said that,you see development and encouraging signs "during a process". You see a cause for optimism "during a process".
That's all I believe most expected to see. Our teams development,not a finished product. Of course it isn't "a TV dinner".
But going into the third year? You should at least be able to smell a bit of aroma coming from the kitchen. A process includes steps from A-Z.
Being competative is a part of that process. And we're not.
Well, let's lok at this a little deeper.
Do we have an actual LB corp now? Yes, we do and it's better than we've had here in a long time. That's progress.
Doe we have a good secondary now? Yes, we have a very good CB and a rookie that will be as well. We have a very good safety in Jones. Holly will be a good nickel back as well. That's progress.
Do we have a good OL? We have the best OL we've had since we came back. We have depth there too. That's progress.
Do we have a good RB? Yes, we have an established RB that can play. That's progress.
Do we have a good set of playmakers? Yes, BE and KW2 are going to be difference makers that we've never had here since the return. That's progress.
Do we have a franchise QB? Yes, for the first time we have a QB that not only has all the tools, the mental toughness, but also the chance to be a franchise QB. That's progress.
Now, we just have to let it come together this season. There is progress. Sometimes that isn't equated in the number of wins and losses.
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We should be competitive even in a loss..However it appears players felt like they couldn't do..thats what I meant by reactive..
After the botched punt..and or sometime in the first half and the opening Steeler drive in the third quarter the team went into a funk...
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I agree. I also don't know if RAC is a NFL head coach or not. I just think that we are all forgetting where we're at with this season. Some of us have been saying since pre-season that it would take 4 or 5 games for the offense to gel. I'm not going to make a judgement until then and Quinn is under center. That's when I feel you can judge RAC.
At last!!!
...some common sense in this thread. And to think, it only took 7 pages to get us here.
Thanks, Coach.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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You see Coach,even you understand we are better talent wise. But you don't expect accountability for that showing up on the field every Sunday.
You've shown exactly how Phil has been doing a good job.
Yet at the same time,it shows exactly how little progress RAC has accomplished with all of the good hard work Phil has done.
Yes we have progress. Phils progress. Just none from RAC.
Not even Phil is going to put up with that much longer. And I don't blame him.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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CoachB, I agree with everything in your post, we ARE better at so many positions, so WHY isn't it showing on the field? Look, I am just tired of being embarrassed by teams in our own division. I know it takes time to gel, but last sunday,........we were NOT EVEN ON THE SAME FIELD, as the steelers. I know all the excuses: our O-line hasn't played together. we had a new punter. our defense was placed in a terrible position. our team is young. etc. I am sure there are more. But last week was a disgrace. Maybe I expected to much, I honestly thought we had a chance to win going into that game......FOR ALL THE REASONS YOU STATED! So what other reason is there for us to look the way we did? As a side note: Please just let us win this coming sunday and put all my whining and overreacting to bed 
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
Go ARMY......Beat Navy!!!!!!
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Just clicking
To all those that want RAC gone now.. And only to those individuals
It may happen,, It just may happen as you wish.. I hope you will all feel wonderful about it if it does. But remember, with Change comes a set back and a set back could mean another few years added onto the already 5 year plan. If you are hungry for wins, that's not necessarly the right way to do it.
I suppose that I will hear that we are not going to win with the guy we have.. OK,, That may well be true.
But what REAL, HARD evidence do you have that isn't circumstantial.
I mean, you can think something, but can you prove it? Some of you say things as if they were fact.
I've said it before, and I'm sticking to it, I think RAC should have a couple of more weeks to prove or disprove his value to the team as HC.
My reasoning for that is pretty simple, the team he has right now, he's had it for about 8 or 9 weeks. That's all.. None of this 2 or 3 year crap. He has NOT had this team with these players that long. How in heavens name anyone could expect him to turn this into a winning franchise in 8 or 9 weeks is beyond me.
Add to it that we now know for sure (although many of you guys suspected as much) that it's the Brady Quinn era and it's just around the corner.
So to me, he should have more time to show what he can do with THIS TEAM...
Now keep in mind, this is JMO,,,,,, Norhing more!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
We should be competitive even in a loss..However it appears players felt like they couldn't do..thats what I meant by reactive..
After the botched punt..and or sometime in the first half and the opening Steeler drive in the third quarter the team went into a funk...
Yep,33 games later the story is still the same isn't it? We get behind,the coach loses the team.
In the immortal words of Steven Tyler..............."It's the same old story,same old song and dance,my friends!"
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
I said before the season started that I wanted Brady to ride the bench all yr.
I said before the season started that Romeo should be given another yr. to turn things around.
After ONE GAME.............I am questioning both of those statements.
You're approaching the signpost up ahead. It reads: The land of reason.
You're almost there. Just keep walkin' 
Crennel fired before the bye-week, Quinn inserted at the same time in practice.
There's no reason to do anything else. Time to find out if our wunderkind OC or our DC are head coaching material or not. We allready have the answer on Crennel 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
I suppose that I will hear that we are not going to win with the guy we have.. OK,, That may well be true.
But what REAL, HARD evidence do you have that isn't circumstantial.
I mean, you can think something, but can you prove it? Some of you say things as if they were fact.
10-22
1-12 in the division.
That takes one HELLUVA LOT of circumstances over quite a period of time don't ya think?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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And why as I said at the very beginning...why we need to dump Romeo soon...to be sure we have it right with Savage and the players.
I am sure better preparation will show in how these guys play because I think we have some pretty decent players.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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You have to look past the small, short-term picture of 2-3-4 games...Anderson has a superior skill set to Charlie...the things that can cause Anderson to fall apart can be worked on.....doesn't mean it will work....but they can be worked on...especially as a back-up..
He doesn't have a superior skillset to Frye... he has a superior arm. Last time I checked, being able to throw the ball hard without the ability to hit the broad side of the barn was about as effective as being scared in the pocket and not having the arm to throw past midfield. Ask Spurgeon Wynn how well having just a cannon and no other skill works. DA is a bum and we're all going to get more of a display of his "skillset" than we can stomach come Sunday.
We're... we're good?
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At least we've eliminated one of the bums from the equation, and won't have to see the stinkin' FryGuys in the stands anymore
I'll tell you what I fear the most here. I can't help but wonder whether or not Crennel will panic if/when Anderson goes out and lays a Frye-sized egg. Will he cave and throw Quinn in when he's clearly not had enough time to absorb the playbook?
I think he might. Not that he will, but that he's got it in him. Hell, he clearly showed that he wasn't competent enough to name Anderson the starter to begin with, so there's nothing to say he won't blow this one as well.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Legend
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Quote:
To all those that want RAC gone now.. And only to those individuals
It may happen,, It just may happen as you wish.. I hope you will all feel wonderful about it if it does. But remember, with Change comes a set back and a set back could mean another few years added onto the already 5 year plan. If you are hungry for wins, that's not necessarly the right way to do it.
Possibly.
OR!
It could mean the perfect stage has all been set up for a "Marty Party"!
Chud? check
3/4 D? Check
Bright young QB? check
Good 3/4 LB core? Check
You could be right. I could be right. But it's definatly NOT a situation that will necassarily set up the "doom and gloom" you portray.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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At least we've eliminated one of the bums from the equation, and won't have to see the stinkin' FryGuys in the stands anymore
I'll tell you what I fear the most here. I can't help but wonder whether or not Crennel will panic if/when Anderson goes out and lays a Frye-sized egg. Will he cave and throw Quinn in when he's clearly not had enough time to absorb the playbook?
Yep Toad... and THAT is the one reason I wanted to see Frye kept around. If we had both Frye and Anderson and one of them stunk, we could always go to the other one to pretend that we're trying to address the problem when, in reality, we were just protecting Brady. Now, if Anderson stinks it up, the crowd will be deafening and we'll be without a buffer (or, heaven forbid, he gets hurt).
Personally, both Frye and Anderson stunk IMO, but combined, they made enough of a crap carousel that we could use it to avoid bringing in Brady too early. Now, we may have no choice. I think it would've been worth losing that 6th we got to ensure Brady enough time. I just hope he's ready because Anderson is about to get exposed big time.
We're... we're good?
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jc what a sad thread
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Or is it your assertion we simply lack the talent to be "consistantly competative"?
No, I don't think we lack the talent to be consistently competitive.. we might lack the maturity it takes to be consistently competitive though.
That's pretty much the definition of "immaturity" from a football standpoint... inconsistency.
Remember, we see this talent and we know it's growing.. we see Wimbley and DQ and KW and BE and Jones and Wright and Quinn and Thomas.... While all appear to be pretty darn talented, most are in their first or second year...
We are relying very heavily on very young players.... I do still expect some inconsistency out of that and some mistakes...
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If not,why is it we couldn't even look REMOTELY competative in a game we've had so long to prepare for?
Mistakes Pit.. I've been through that... for us to beat or have a chance to beat the Steelers we would have to play at the very top of our game and the Steelers would have to make mistakes... they didn't make any mistakes, we made a bunch.... you are still yet to tell me what having a long time to prepare had anything to do with it...
Ok, let's prepare so the punter doesn't botch the snap? Let's prepare so that Frye doesn't throw into triple coverage? Let's prepare so that Lewis doesn't fumble on a 3 yard run?.... HOW DO YOU PREPARE TO NOT DO THOSE THINGS?
And my personal favorite, let's prepare what we're going to do if we're down 17-0 in the first quarter....
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
At least we've eliminated one of the bums from the equation, and won't have to see the stinkin' FryGuys in the stands anymore
I'll tell you what I fear the most here. I can't help but wonder whether or not Crennel will panic if/when Anderson goes out and lays a Frye-sized egg. Will he cave and throw Quinn in when he's clearly not had enough time to absorb the playbook?
Yep Toad... and THAT is the one reason I wanted to see Frye kept around. If we had both Frye and Anderson and one of them stunk, we could always go to the other one to pretend that we're trying to address the problem when, in reality, we were just protecting Brady. Now, if Anderson stinks it up, the crowd will be deafening and we'll be without a buffer (or, heaven forbid, he gets hurt).
Personally, both Frye and Anderson stunk IMO, but combined, they made enough of a crap carousel that we could use it to avoid bringing in Brady too early. Now, we may have no choice. I think it would've been worth losing that 6th we got to ensure Brady enough time. I just hope he's ready because Anderson is about to get exposed big time.
The crowd would be deafening regardless...it was deafening on Sunday and there was that buffer. It'll be deafening again on Sunday if Anderson lays an egg.
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The crowd would be deafening regardless...it was deafening on Sunday and there was that buffer. It'll be deafening again on Sunday if Anderson lays an egg.
That will probably be the case, but when you get out of the game and Anderson is fresh off three picks and a fumble, what can you say now... we're going to try out Charlie next game? Nope. At least when you have a backup quarterback, you can sub him in and say "Well, at least it's not Anderson" or "Well, at least it's not Frye". If Anderson stinks, we're either stuck watching a guy we just watched get killed the week before or we're going to have to put Quinn in early.
At this point, I'm just hoping and praying that Quinn is ready because if he's not, this whole 5-year plan is about to get flushed down the toilet.
We're... we're good?
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227 |
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jc
what a sad thread
Haha, tell me about it. 
We're... we're good?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955 Likes: 31
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955 Likes: 31 |
The fans have a right to be frustrated. Sunday was the SOS over again. It doesn't hurt to discuss options. If we beat the crap out of the Bengals this week and play well the next week, watch the talk change from Romeo.
That's how frustration works...finding someone to blame.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 602
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 602 |
yup, and I am really frustrated..........know on a lighter note.........who do I talk to about my wife
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
Go ARMY......Beat Navy!!!!!!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,712 Likes: 1678
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,712 Likes: 1678 |
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If not,why is it we couldn't even look REMOTELY competative in a game we've had so long to prepare for?
Mistakes Pit.. I've been through that... for us to beat or have a chance to beat the Steelers we would have to play at the very top of our game and the Steelers would have to make mistakes... they didn't make any mistakes
I didn't say "win" DC,I said REMOTELY competative.
I don't doubt there will be 27-17 games. Or 24-10.
But you DON'T go through a game looking like you don't even belong on the same FIELD with the opposition! I don't buy it and won't buy it!
MOST of the people wouldn't feel this way if we "kept playing". If we looked "presentable". It isn't about "wheather we beat the Steelers or not". It's about showing up looking like we weren't even ready to play the game. If you get behind 17-0,is that an excuse to just roll over and play dead?
Seems like it is around here and that's the problem. It's happenned over and over again. And you can blame that on the players all you like. But a lot of other young teams don't do that.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855 Likes: 159
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855 Likes: 159 |
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10-22
1-12 in the division.
That takes one HELLUVA LOT of circumstances over quite a period of time don't ya think?
For Cryin out loud Pit,,, the team he has now,, did he have that team his first year,,, NO
The team he has now, did he have that team in his second year,, NO, Close but still, NO
I don't think you will find ONE person that thinks that Talent doesn't matter, and only a fool would try to tell you that RAC's first two team were more talented in any way shape of form than the one he has right now.. at least on paper.
For your comment to hold any weight at all, he would have had to have a talented team to start off and that's just not the case!
Putting a new coach in TODAY wouldn't prove a thing,, not a thing. Even if they start winning, what's to say that wasn't gonna happen anyway.. and please,, don't give me a history lesson again,,, I know the record,, it was a completely different team.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Why Romeo needs to go soon.
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