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Well ... at least were now OVER PAYING FOR QUALITY as opposed to overpaying for trash like Kenny Britt ... ...

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001...ls-best-wr-duos

1. Odell Beckham Jr. and Jarvis Landry, Cleveland Browns

Beckham in 2018 (with Giants): 77 receptions for 1,052 yards and six touchdowns (12 games).

Landry in 2018: 81 receptions for 976 yards and four touchdowns.

The Browns have been the darlings of the offseason, and the reunion of Beckham and Landry is at the center of their moment. With the former LSU teammates in the same locker room again, the Browns boast arguably the best slot receiver in the game in Landry and one of the top perimeter receivers in Beckham. Landry and Beckham are one of only three current WR duos to have each logged 100-catch seasons in their careers -- joining them are Minnesota's Stefon Diggs and Adam Thielen (I'll get to them in a minute) and New England's Julian Edelman and Demaryius Thomas.

This pair brings more to the table than great hands, as they thrive off the line of scrimmage and create separation. According to Next Gen Stats, OBJ has averaged 2.6 yards of separation from the nearest defender against press coverage since 2016, the most in the NFL (among those with a minimum of 50 press targets), while Landry's 2.3 yards of separation per press target ranks third. With precise route running, speed and Baker Mayfield's quick release, this pair won't waste any time racking up yardage for one of the most exciting offenses in the league.

THIS

I don't care if Jarvis is overpaid or not. Even if overpaid, at least hes producing SOMETHING! For 20 years we have been paying guys millions of dollars that shouldn't be allowed to even bag groceries for min wage. We got a good player - and hes still playing good!

We were literally 1 and freaking 31. Yeah, I would assume we have to overpay everyone at that point to get them to come here.

I think I know what you mean but just to clarify, we didn't have to overpay to get him-- he wasn't a FA. We traded for him and I think giving up a 4th was a good deal. I think I said that the day we got him. Now, would we have needed to overpay for him in 2019 if Miami held on to him and his contract expired in 2019? Maybe. But if Beckham was in the mix for us during FA, I doubt we would have given Landry the same contract.

Anyways, if someone is OK with overpaying for him, that's fine by me. I just wish some posters would be honest about it and not create ways in which he reaches that value to negotiate with themselves and others(not saying you are). And many people that think he is overpaid aren't saying he is a bad WR....just not as good as people want to project him as, IMO. Is he producing? Sure. Will he have good games in 2019? I bet he does. I just don't think the juice was worth the squeeze (no pun intended). I think his production in 2018 relative to his contract EASILY proved that up to this point. If people want to add blocking and film room rants to justify in their minds that he is worth it contractually, so be it. Whatever makes them feel better.

Could he have a monster year in 2019 and at least balance his two years here out it terms of value? Perhaps, but I doubt it. I'd put my money on similar production, most likely lower, with Odell Beckham here. And ultimately because of that, and the wild amount of money we are allocating to the WR postion the contract, I'm guessing, it will need to be addressed in some form or fashion.

Not really, we traded for him, but gave him a new contract during that process. I am certain the contract negotiations with him were part of the trade. We would not have traded for him without assurance of an agreed contract - so although it was a trade, we were still negotiating his contract with him before hand. It happens all the time.

Ok, name one other WR we have had on this roster in the last 20 years where the juice was worth the squeeze?

Its the cost of doing business when you suck. If you want juice, you have to get fruit. We have only had turds and tried to make lemonade out of them. WE got a bowl of fruit at WR now, and people want to complain about money that is not theirs.

Jurevicius. We didn't overpay and he produced relative to his compensation.

Jarvis has basically the same amount of yards and more catches in his 5 years in the league, than Joe had in his career.

Joe had 400 yards and 600 yards and 3 td with us.

Jarvis is by far the better player, and worth more to the team than Joe was.

Whaaaaaa? Wait, he's not that good, right?



Well, there's an interesting stat.


#OhNoWeSuckAgain

I'm not debating better player.

J/C

It seemed that we turned a corner on the personal attacks and got back to some semblance of football talk. Hope it stays there but it this is DawgTalkers so I'll hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

Anyway, I wanted to get back to some comments that diminish what Jarvis does in the run game. Running the ball is still a thing in the NFL, right? I know that it's hard to quantify but it would seem unnecessary to say that running the ball requires more than somebody toting the rock. What I'm getting at is Jarvis' blocking adds value to our run game. Value is value. We do make judgments about production for linemen without the benefit of stats that are directly attributable to the lineman. In other words, the production of the ball carrier is in part attributed to the blockers. The same metric should be applied to a WR who run blocks or just blocks downfield giving other receivers or backs the opportunity to produce YAC. This contributes to production which contributes to scoring points. It's both incomplete and dishonest to suggest that it's an unimportant factor in measuring the value of a player.

Just because it's cliche to say, "football is blocking and tackling", doesn't make it any less true.

Agreed, Javis is a very underrated blocker.

here is how I would grade Jarvis:

Size - C-
Speed - C+ to a B-
Hands - A
Blocking - B+
Tenacity - A+
Teammate grade - A+
Route running - A

Obviously these are my personal grades, and some will have issue with them. So be it. That's what I see.

I think hes one of the better players we have had on this team in 20 years, and when your 1-31, I am dang glad he is here.

I think last year I wanted to see a little more from him, but two QBs, a new system, 2 coaches, etc - He did a pretty dang good job with what he was dealt with.

dude can throw a pretty decent pass, too.

Landry -> Perriman 63 yd.

His speed is below average, as is his size .. his hands, quickness, and will even things out.

He’s going to do SO much better with OBJ IMO

J/C

We need to quit worrying about what guys make. Nothing any of us can do about it, so stop the moaning already.

If we are going to worry about the receiving corps, let worry about Njoku.

He took some strides last year but he is the guy who needs to step up. He has the tools to be a top 5 TE in the league. We need to hope his mind can grasp that and do that.

We also need to worry about all of OBJ, Landry, Calloway, Higgins and Njoku understanding that the sum is greater than the parts. All's numbers might go down.

Baker really needs to lead those guys. I am not all that worried about the backs. They are still going to get 40 something % of the plays. Maybe more if we score like we hope we can. If we start to build substantial leads by late 3rd qtr. I expect we will become a run heavy team.

Freddie played under Gene Stalling who played under the Bear and coached with him. Stalling was one of the "Junction Boys" at Texas A&M ....good movie.

Anyway, Freddie won't all of a sudden become overly pass happy with a lead.

His roots run deep in Alabama tradition. We are going to see some snot knocked out of people.

Njoku was the #8 TE in 2018.

He is coming into his own, but yes continual progress is expected of him.
And yes we have the talent to knock the snot bubbles out of a Defense. With Chubb and Hunt.

I thought Miles Austin was also an invaluable player for the Browns during his tenure and I'm surprised we didn't retain him. Maybe not surprised but disappointed...



One of the things Jarvis does well, in fact really well, is catch the ball. He struggled with that his first year in Cleveland. Albeit one of the more controversial stats of the game, but I believe he was one of the leaders in the dropped passes categories.

I agree that some are trying to justify his worth with some of the intangibles they think he brings to the table. I understand he blocks, I understand he came to the aid of Baker on the sideline after a scuffle on a play. I understand that bad teams sometimes have to overpay for players... however receivers are mostly paid based on their catches and touchdowns. And I think no matter how you slice his contract, he's overpaid.

In my mind, I think it was all by design and it's no coincidence that he has a favorable contract to cut after his second year here. I stand by my original comment that he will not live out the life of his contract with the Browns. People can feed me crow all they want if I'm wrong, but I'll still be surprised if he's playing on this contract for Cleveland in 2020 or 2021.

I only worry about what guys make as it pertains to the future of the team.

I can't control any of it, but it's always (can be) a fun debate.

Jarvis did seem to have a few ill-timed drops ... a few early on and that weird one in Baltimore over his shoulder that coulda been like a 95 yard TD lol

Agreed. He has great hands and I think last year's catch % was an outlier.

Side note: Thanks to the refs for deleting a post I made about Jarvis without breaking any rules. Very YouTube/Twitter of you.

Care to elaborate on that statement without the snark? What post are you talking about?

j/c:

I found the video of BB talking about Landry. I missed it before because it's part of a video where Juice was ranked the 52nd best player in the entire league by his peers. Here is that video and it contains comments from the legendary Bill Belichick. He probably doesn't know as much about football as a few guys on this board, though. LOL

They did the same to me the other day.

Super funny.

j/c:

Here is another video that was made before we traded for Juice. Watch it and let me know if you are okay w/him getting paid, please.

Your post was removed as it was within a string of posts that were removed due to posters attacking each other and not discussing the subject in any manner. Not sure how super funny that is, but it happens from time to time that posts not causing any issues get wrapped up in the removal. No posts have been removed from this thread for days, which is why I have asked the poster for clarification.

I can certainly find your post within that string of posts and return it to the thread if you would like.

Thanks for that video. It’s easy to root for someone with a good work ethic and old school type mentality. IMO, the reason OBJ will work well here has a lot to do with Jarvis too

j/c:



Not quite 52.

Congrats Jarvis ... Make sure you’re higher on the list next year

Wonder if Kenny Britt and Corey Coleman will be ranked higher?

Congrats Juice.

Are they getting almost $50M guaranteed avg. $15M a year too?!?!? If so, that's a shame as well!

Not sure I understand the drop? Playing with a Rookie QB for most of the year and still pulling of close to 1000 yards is pretty good right? Wonder how the arrive at these rankings

I believe it's peer voted, so it's pretty much science.

Seems to me like the nfl players (thats who votes for this) don’t rely on stats near as much as U and the rest of the sashiettes ... i mean you’ve showed us stats from last year that proved even Higgins was a better WR than VG yet somehow HIS PEERS voted him into the top 100 ... ....

not quite the picture u and all your precious little stats paint is it ... its all u and your groupies understand and the nfl players just pointed that out to u and yet u post it like it proved your right ... ...

The nfl players just proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that STATS ARE FOR LOSERS ... thanks for sharing ...

Nice job ...

Did you happen to see that I found the video that showed Belichick talking about Landry? I know you had been asking about it. It's on this page. It's the one from last year where he was ranked 52nd overall by the players.

This is incorrect and further proves how you are not accurately processing information right in front of you. I showed in few stats comparing Landry and Higgins that Higgins was essentially more efficient in production when given the ball. If I remember correctly, it related to yards per reception, first down rate, catch %. Maybe there were others. In fact, many WRs were more efficient than Landry.

If you could translate stats better, and thus, have a better understanding of them, maybe you wouldn't be so ignorant to them.

Ya ... i’ve watched it like 5 times all ready ... thanks for finding it ... that had to take some time and effort ...

You calling Diam "ignorant" when the subject has anything to do w/football is priceless. Absolutely priceless!

Welp. He claimed I said Landry was a better WR than Higgins based off of prior posts I made which clearly wasn't true, so I think the comment stands.

Similar ignorance would be like if you claimed Hue was a leader of men after watching Hard Knocks and tried to call out other posters for not saying the same thing....oh, wait.

OK Sheldon ...

Thanks for the heads up, i’ll get right to work on it ...

GO WIZARDS!!!!

So, the great Memphisbrownie knows more about football than Bill Belichick. And looking at stats in isolation w/out considering how teams game plan and roll coverages your way or not is the definition of intelligence. And you have the nerve to call others ignorant.