|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,146
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,146 |
It depends what we're talking about. If you are saving money out of pocket but paying more in taxes, yet have a net gain at the end of the day... why would you not like the taxes? Because the taxes will keep going up. The government does not do anything under budget. Government run healthcare will be no different. All you're doing is shifting who is paying the bills to the government. Covering up the costs doesn't fix the underlying problem. There is not a one size fits all solution to our problems. You seem to think there is. Putting government in control of these things is not a solution. Government tends to create more problems than solutions.
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 77,437
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 77,437 |
Yet it's working for the rest of the free world. Most of it rated to have better healthcare at less cost per patient. While we're sitting here watching people make excuses why we can't do it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Yet it's working for the rest of the free world. Most of it rated to have better healthcare at less cost per patient. While we're sitting here watching people make excuses why we can't do it. I think this is short-sighted or missing the point. I am not making excuses as to why we can't do it. I am saying I don't want to do it. I can provide some links if you don't believe me, but look at housing in the United States compared to Europe. On average, our homes are much larger. We have much more living space and we have much larger properties. Europe's average is similar to our poorest folks. Germany has an average of 1.8 rooms per person. So does Sweden, France, and Portugal. Denmark's is 1.9. So is Finland's and The Netherlands. Italy has 1.4 rooms per person. Countries like Greece, Poland, Mexico, Israel, Turkey, Hungary, etc are even lower. My wife and I have downsized, but we still share over 3,000 sq feet w/4 bedrooms, an office, and a Bonus room in addition to the regular rooms. We have a fenced-in yard that is over 1/2 acre w/a pool and two-car garage. We wouldn't have anything close to that if you guys succeed in making us pay so others can have free health care. I like the way we can live in this country. Some don't. I'm tired of folks asking other folks to pay for their stuff. I don't want to be Europe, or Asia, or S. America. I like our lifestyle right here in the Good Old USA, baby!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,146
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,146 |
Yet it's working for the rest of the free world. Most of it rated to have better healthcare at less cost per patient. While we're sitting here watching people make excuses why we can't do it. I guess you missed the part where I said our government can't do anything in a cost effective manner. I'm not making excuses, I'm bring up legitimate problems. Problems that big government crowd refuse to acknowledge. If you want to roll out something this big, you need identify and address the problems before you roll it out. As opposed to the way Obamacare was rolled out where they couldn't even build a functioning website.
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,195
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,195 |
Yet it's working for the rest of the free world. Most of it rated to have better healthcare at less cost per patient. While we're sitting here watching people make excuses why we can't do it. The rest of the free world doesn't have a population that, when given free healthcare, runs to the ER everytime they get a sniffle. The rest of the free world doesn't run to the hospital claiming chest pain or suicidal ideations everytime they need 3 hots and a cot, or partied away their social security checks before the month is up....which also prompts them to "discover" other symptoms that lengthen their stays and require expensive testing to rule out serious illness. The rest of the free world doesn't live in a sue-happy society with lawyers on TV telling them exactly what they need for a lawsuit. The rest of the free world doesn't have a government that's in bed with drug and insurance companies, and aren't bombarded with TV commercials and shows telling them to run to the doctor for every minor symptom. I could rant all night.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,165
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,165 |
TV commercials and shows telling them to run to the doctor for every minor symptom every third commercial these days. I laugh as I press the ff button on my remote.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,630
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,630 |
It's a 8 second commercial plus 22 seconds of listing all the side effects.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 77,437
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 77,437 |
Vers, you know that Europe was built thousands of years ago. cramming a lot of people into a small geographic area. Trying to compare the size of our dwellings to healthcare misses by a mile.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 77,437
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 77,437 |
Yet it's working for the rest of the free world. Most of it rated to have better healthcare at less cost per patient. While we're sitting here watching people make excuses why we can't do it. The rest of the free world doesn't have a population that, when given free healthcare, runs to the ER everytime they get a sniffle. The rest of the free world doesn't run to the hospital claiming chest pain or suicidal ideations everytime they need 3 hots and a cot, or partied away their social security checks before the month is up....which also prompts them to "discover" other symptoms that lengthen their stays and require expensive testing to rule out serious illness. The rest of the free world doesn't live in a sue-happy society with lawyers on TV telling them exactly what they need for a lawsuit. The rest of the free world doesn't have a government that's in bed with drug and insurance companies, and aren't bombarded with TV commercials and shows telling them to run to the doctor for every minor symptom. I could rant all night. You have missed the mark by a mile. lmao The reason people rush the the ER is because they DON'T have healthcare! It's the only place that isn't allowed to refuse them treatment. And as of now, you're footing the bill in insurance premiums to help pay those bills. Bet yeah, let's keep doing that. You do realize that a huge part of this deal would be to negotiate the price of services, tests, operations and prescription drugs, right? Because it certainly doesn't sound like it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,433
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,433 |
Yet it's working for the rest of the free world. Most of it rated to have better healthcare at less cost per patient. While we're sitting here watching people make excuses why we can't do it. The rest of the free world doesn't have a population that, when given free healthcare, runs to the ER everytime they get a sniffle. The rest of the free world doesn't run to the hospital claiming chest pain or suicidal ideations everytime they need 3 hots and a cot, or partied away their social security checks before the month is up....which also prompts them to "discover" other symptoms that lengthen their stays and require expensive testing to rule out serious illness. The rest of the free world doesn't live in a sue-happy society with lawyers on TV telling them exactly what they need for a lawsuit. The rest of the free world doesn't have a government that's in bed with drug and insurance companies, and aren't bombarded with TV commercials and shows telling them to run to the doctor for every minor symptom. I could rant all night. Maybe better access to healthcare would lead to better education about what's serious and what's not serious? Not trying to be cheeky. Just a question I've always wondered.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823 |
Bernie Sanders campaign announces it will cut hours to pay staffers $15 minimum wage, prompting mockeryDemocrat presidential candidate Bernie Sanders announced this weekend he will cut staffers' hours so that they can effectively be paid a $15-an-hour minimum wage, prompting mockery from critics who say the move is more evidence that Sanders' plan to raise the national minimum wage is hypocritical and would only lead to less work and more unemployment. The Washington Post first reported last Thursday that Sanders' field staffers were upset that Sanders championed a $15 minimum wage on the campaign trail, and made headlines for railing against major corporations who pay "starvation wages" -- even as his own employees made "poverty wages." "For the first time in his life, socialist Bernie Sanders practices economics and, buddy, the results are hilarious," wrote columnist and humorist Stephen Miller. He added: "Why won’t millionaire Bernie Sanders, who owns 3 homes, instead of cutting hours, pay his staff a living wage? People are starving.""So does this fall under the category of hypocrisy, irony, or poetic justice?" Rep. Dan Crenshaw asked. "All three? Can’t make this stuff up." https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bernie-...ompting-mockeryWelcome to the real world Mr. Socialist. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,899
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,899 |
Vers, you know that Europe was built thousands of years ago. cramming a lot of people into a small geographic area. Trying to compare the size of our dwellings to healthcare misses by a mile. Good point. I was thinking the same thing. In the UK there are 67m people in a country approx the size of Michigan. For those who know their geography the UK consists of England, Scotland, Wales & N. Ireland. Break that down further and England alone has 55m of that 67m in an area the size of...Louisiana? Then, keep in mind, a huge percentage of that population is in London & the south east. I think England is now one of, it not THE most densely populated countries in the world. No state comes close to that (Sure, California is very populated, but it is also huge and much of its population is in the western spine of SF, LA, SD metro areas. There are vast areas that are empty.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 77,437
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 77,437 |
One thing I learned a long time ago. There is something to be learned from everyone. Some of it good and some of it bad. If people could use what they learned that's good and add it to their life while taking the things they learn that are bad and removing it from their life, life would be so much better.
Yet there is one huge obstacle that stands in the way. People are creatures of habit. They develop a comfort level with things the only way they've know them to be. It's hard for them to accept that there's a different, better way. Even when all facts point out that's so. I admit that I sometimes have a problem with that very same obstacle.
But when it comes to healthcare it's a complete no brainer. It's been proven on a global scale. From cost to quality.
And no Vers, if you read this it wasn't a shot at you. It's just a general comment on the human condition.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,259
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,259 |
Yet it's working for the rest of the free world. Most of it rated to have better healthcare at less cost per patient. While we're sitting here watching people make excuses why we can't do it. The rest of the free world doesn't have a population that, when given free healthcare, runs to the ER everytime they get a sniffle. The rest of the free world doesn't run to the hospital claiming chest pain or suicidal ideations everytime they need 3 hots and a cot, or partied away their social security checks before the month is up....which also prompts them to "discover" other symptoms that lengthen their stays and require expensive testing to rule out serious illness. The rest of the free world doesn't live in a sue-happy society with lawyers on TV telling them exactly what they need for a lawsuit. The rest of the free world doesn't have a government that's in bed with drug and insurance companies, and aren't bombarded with TV commercials and shows telling them to run to the doctor for every minor symptom. I could rant all night. What do you base the over-visitation on? Frontline did a great piece in 2008 about healthcare around the world. England in particular had high incidences of people going to the doctor just to talk about unrelated things entirely! The bottom line argument was that over-visitation was a more than valid price to pay to ensure people don't go bankrupt or die because they can't afford care. I think it's a great piece and one we can all learn from. I 100% agree on the over litigiousness and malpractice suits. Doctors in Germany don't have to maintain the malpractice insurance like our doctors do.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 77,437
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 77,437 |
And this is only one example of where ideas from both sides can be used to accomplish a working system.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,259
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,259 |
The French don't even consider their system to be universal care. The way it works if if you need catastrophic care you get taken care of, no questions asked. Non-catastrophic you will want insurance if you want it taken care of quickly, which is provided by your employer.
I wish we had a politician who just had the platform be one simple idea: Let anyone apply for Medicare, no age limits or disability requirements. Unfortunately that's not a sexy byline so instead we risk the left throwing pie in the sky ideas which are susceptible to being a house of cards.
Last edited by gage; 07/21/19 04:54 PM.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,899
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,899 |
I have had experience with England's NHS (14 years). I needed it when I had a hernia, my wife needed it when she was pregnant (twice) and our kids accessed it until my daughter was 9 and our son was 6. Everytime we go back to the UK to visit family and friends we are covered by the NHS. People don't financially fear going to the doctor. Doctors won't prescribe drugs or recommend treatments for the sake of it. Doctors in the UK are not millionaires. They live comfortably, but they are not living in mansions. Lawyers (Solicitors), however...now they do.
Are there problems? Of course there are. As I said above, there are 67m people in a small country. Population aside, no system is perfect. But, in my experience with both the UK and the US health care it is a no brainer and morally the right thing to offer.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,433
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,433 |
How dare you want socialism in the USA. Do you want to turn us into Venezuela!?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,899
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,899 |
I should add to it Vets in England are also different than here in the US. We were warned before we moved back to the States that they will want to test for everything as that racks up the bill big time. Our first visit and yep...they wanted to test for this that and the other. You name it. Our dog was totally healthy we just wanted to get a neighborhood vet, get him a general check up, nails clipped etc. But, after declining all the tests, paying that initial bill we never went back. We quickly found another one and by coincidence one of their Vets is English and studied at Oregon State. He is great...totally straight up, never beats around the bush and never recommends ridiculous tests for the sake of it. We totally trust him and have never felt like we are being taken for a ride.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,367
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,367 |
No kidding. I pay far more in vet bills than I do for my own healthcare, and I have a very high deductible since I’m self-employed. It’s gotten crazy expensive for just about anything at the vet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
How dare you want socialism in the USA. Do you want to turn us into Venezuela!? Why must you constantly mock folks who see things different from you as if we are ignorant? The attitude that you--and those like you--are going to cost us yet another election. But, stay superior.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,259
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,259 |
Vers, Do you vote for candidates based on whether their supporters say nice or mean things? You don't care about abortion rights one way or another? You don't care about immigration one way or another? You don't care about taxes one way or another? You don't even care whether or not the candidate themselves says nice or mean things? You only care if their supporters say nice or mean things?
If you don't, then who is this character you're inventing that will run between the parties based on which one is nicer to them in the moment?
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
No gage. That is not what I am saying. Now, may I ask you a question?
There was a thread where you said you respected how smart I am or something like that. Do you really think I would vote along those lines that you just laid out?
I'm trying to talk bigger picture, gage. I am not trying to argue w/you here. I just want to look at the bigger picture. Winning the election w/out the vote of the white working middle class is going to be very hard. Almost impossible.
I know the movie stars, athletes, and the press make a lot of noise about this and that....but they don't win elections.
I desperately want for a Democratic candidate to defeat Trump. But, we are not going to win an election by mocking and taking advantage of the majority of the voters.
I have no idea why that is so hard for some to understand. I am not saying that to you because I don't know how you feel.
Change occurs when you get the mainstream involved in your cause. Alienating them is beyond ignorant.
Was that more clear?
Not asking you to agree, but does that clarify my position?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,195
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,195 |
Yet it's working for the rest of the free world. Most of it rated to have better healthcare at less cost per patient. While we're sitting here watching people make excuses why we can't do it. The rest of the free world doesn't have a population that, when given free healthcare, runs to the ER everytime they get a sniffle. The rest of the free world doesn't run to the hospital claiming chest pain or suicidal ideations everytime they need 3 hots and a cot, or partied away their social security checks before the month is up....which also prompts them to "discover" other symptoms that lengthen their stays and require expensive testing to rule out serious illness. The rest of the free world doesn't live in a sue-happy society with lawyers on TV telling them exactly what they need for a lawsuit. The rest of the free world doesn't have a government that's in bed with drug and insurance companies, and aren't bombarded with TV commercials and shows telling them to run to the doctor for every minor symptom. I could rant all night. You have missed the mark by a mile. lmao The reason people rush the the ER is because they DON'T have healthcare! It's the only place that isn't allowed to refuse them treatment. And as of now, you're footing the bill in insurance premiums to help pay those bills. I didn't miss jack, lmao. You're reading comprehension and getting all giddy because you think you have a gotcha moment is what missed the mark. I said "those when given free healthcare"...not those that don't have healthcare. So spare me the smartass remarks. The people I'm talking about running to the emergency rooms HAVE free healthcare (Medicare/Medicaid). Try reading more carefully next time.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,195
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,195 |
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,195
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,195 |
What do you base the over-visitation on? Frontline did a great piece in 2008 about healthcare around the world. England in particular had high incidences of people going to the doctor just to talk about unrelated things entirely! The bottom line argument was that over-visitation was a more than valid price to pay to ensure people don't go bankrupt or die because they can't afford care. I think it's a great piece and one we can all learn from.
I 100% agree on the over litigiousness and malpractice suits. Doctors in Germany don't have to maintain the malpractice insurance like our doctors do.
I'm not talking at all about people going to their doctors. The people with free health care run straight to the ER out of convenience, because ER's are open 24-7 and they don't have to make an appointment. Most of us that pay for our insurance have a high co-pay when we go to the ER, and a much smaller one when we see our doctor.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,259
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,259 |
I don't think you would vote like that at all! I laid out that situation because your tone policing argument is building a case that there are individuals out there who would vote that way. The case you are making is that they are so middle of the road, that they would allow someone on the internet to sway their view because someone was mean.
You have said several times (more or less) that democrats wont win against Trump if people don't talk nicer on the internet to the opposition. Can you elaborate and provide a case where someone who was a Trump voter, would now vote for whoever the Democrat ends up being, based on internet posters being nice? I have a real hard time making this connection you speak of, so perhaps you can run a scenario?
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,259
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,259 |
Most of Europe has free ER visits you speak of, and they don't abuse them like we do. My hypothesis (and shared with people much smarter on this view than I am) is that if you make the entire hospital space more available, you would reduce ER pressures even if ER was free or nominal pay. People go to the ER because an ER must take someone who is sick. A doctor won't see you for a checkup without payment. If a person who wants a checkup can see a doctor without up front pay, would they still go to the ER in your mind, if all they wanted was blood work done?
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,899
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,899 |
Most of Europe has free ER visits you speak of, and they don't abuse them like we do. My hypothesis (and shared with people much smarter on this view than I am) is that if you make the entire hospital space more available, you would reduce ER pressures even if ER was free or nominal pay. People go to the ER because an ER must take someone who is sick. A doctor won't see you for a checkup without payment. If a person who wants a checkup can see a doctor without up front pay, would they still go to the ER in your mind, if all they wanted was blood work done?
Well, yes and no. In the UK, at least, It is a fact that Thurs-Sat many beds all across the country in Casualty/ER rooms are taken up by drink related incidents (fighting, passing out, over indulgence, alcohol poisoning etc.). Funny thing is, Americans have this impression that the British are all very refined, polite folks like they see in the movies or 'British Bake Off'. Spend a night on any High St. in the UK right around when the pubs empty out, especially in areas where it is mainly locals and no tourists, and see just how refined they are!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 77,437
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 77,437 |
I know exactly what you said but it's been proven time and time again that people with any medical coverage will opt to get medical care almost anywhere other than an ER. An ER won't actually treat your long term problem. Sure, they'll set a broken bone or give you three days worth of medication for something. But then all they do is refer you to an doctor or clinic to address the actual issue long term. So yes, you did miss the mark by a mile. Emergency room (ER) use is driven by many factors; among them are perceived need for urgent care, severity of the medical condition, availability and accessibility of ERs and other ambulatory care, and physician referrals to ERs. Studies suggest that some uninsured individuals—who may lack access to alternative care settings—use ERs for nonemergency conditions.1 Our analysis of the National Health Interview Survey (NHIS) data finds that once people go from being uninsured to having Medicaid coverage, the pattern of ER use shifts, with a much lower percentage of people using ERs as a regular source of care. Our analysis found that compared with insured individuals, the uninsured report that ERs are their usual place of care, likely because they have no other place to go to. The uninsured are more likely to visit ERs due to a lack of access to other care settings. For instance, one-third of uninsured respondents who visited ERs in 2016 noted that ERs were “their usual place of care,” compared with just 13 percent of Medicaid respondents and 7 percent of Medicare respondents. Similarly, almost 53 percent of uninsured respondents cited visiting ERs in 2016 because “they had no other place to go,” compared with 39 percent of Medicaid and 30 percent of Medicare respondents https://www2.deloitte.com/insights/us/en...tilization.htmlThere's more to the article but if you wish to read it you can follow the link.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
I don't think you would vote like that at all! I laid out that situation because your tone policing argument is building a case that there are individuals out there who would vote that way. The case you are making is that they are so middle of the road, that they would allow someone on the internet to sway their view because someone was mean.
You have said several times (more or less) that democrats wont win against Trump if people don't talk nicer on the internet to the opposition. Can you elaborate and provide a case where someone who was a Trump voter, would now vote for whoever the Democrat ends up being, based on internet posters being nice? I have a real hard time making this connection you speak of, so perhaps you can run a scenario? Are you purposely misconstruing what I am saying just to win an argument? If so...........you win. I'm sick of talking to people who don't want to converse.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 77,437
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 77,437 |
We certainly don't agree on everything, but we're far more in agreement here than we are in disagreement. I will say that I treat some posters differently than others. I will most certainly dish out what I receive. So I will certainly go toe to toe with the nasty ones.
What we have in common is the basic grasp that if people wish to accomplish anything, they must first have enough people voting for the party that will help to accomplish their goals. Alienating those on the fence or who may be willing to vote either way only hurts the end goal. Without reaching that goal things will go even further in the direction we see now.
What we also both agree on is that everyone, be they black, latino, gay or any other race or sexuality be treated equally and fairly in America.
But in order to accomplish any of that, first you must elect people that will work towards that change.
Every time you alienate someone who may support that, you get further away from accomplishing your goal.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481 |
lol you and Vers.
yall remind me of women who can't decide what they wanna eat because they are incapable of making a decision.
then when the guy goes "lets eat here", you guys are like nah, i dont wanna eat there.
*ok, but where?*
i dunno.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 77,437
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 77,437 |
And you just remind me of a woman.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481 |
And you just remind me of a woman. and you remind me of a transgendered. can't decide so you'll just be both
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 77,437
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 77,437 |
At least I would be proud of it and not attack people who would help me accomplish my goals. Unlike you who attacks the very same people that desire the same results. Because you're too busy playing the angry black man to use your common sense.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481 |
rather be an angry black man than a delusional white moderate.
all day everyday.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823 |
Last edited by 40YEARSWAITING; 07/22/19 01:49 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,259
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,259 |
.
Last edited by gage; 07/22/19 02:08 PM.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 77,437
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 77,437 |
Moderates helped your race achieve every advancement that has ever happened in this nation.
Carry on.....
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Democratic Candidates
|
|
