DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Interesting Baker Stats

Toad? ... ahhh ... just got it ... typo ... never mind .. *L* ...

We can speak about "the record books" all we like. But the stark contrast between the first half of the season and the second half of the season speak for themselves.

First, Baker had zero reps with the ones. He came in as a rookies with no time spent working with the ones. That's a huge handicap in itself.

Obviously Freddie set a game plan that was far better suited to Bakers skill set.

When you compare a rookie QB under those conditions to every QB in the league, you know as well as I do that's not really a fair comparison. Rookie QB's progress as time goes along. The progress between the first half of the season and the second half of the season speaks volumes.

If you don't like the word asinine, substitute pointless. As has been pointed out in my posts and others, there's multiple reasons that posting Baker's stats vs all the veterans and without taking into account the coaching Dynamics simply puts an overly negative spin on his play. Maybe that was just an oversight? Given that you said you were deliberately trying to come up a with a negative counter to a Laundry discussion it seems you went looking for stats to make Baker look average? Either way, there's lots of good insight into Baker's performance.... I just hope he can stay close to his performances under Kitchens, I actually don't expect him to perform that well over all 16 games.

Thanks for granting me permission.

I've tried to tell you this before, but I am not going to get into it w/you. You refuse to play fair and always have to throw biting words around and make things personal. Thus, I have to assume your posts to me are just an attempt to get others to join in and shout down my opinions. That's fine, but again.........I am not going to debate w/you until you learn how to debate fairly.

I would have preferred to put this in a PM so the board wouldn't have to be bogged down by our spat, but you have insisted that I not do so.

I said "we", not you. I gave everyone permission!

But you're getting just what you wanted. You knew exactly what the reaction woud be when you posted this.

There are a lot of Miss Cleo's on this board. Here is some friendly advice to all you mind readers. It might behoove you to concentrate on your own line of thinking, because there are some gaps that need filled in.

The Browns players also commented on how Freddie asked the various offensive units what types of plays they were most comfortable with, and then they actually started running them. Simple concept, but a great way to put players in the best position to succeed, and also to get them to buy in.

We also ran a lot more mixed protections, and even max protects under Freddie. He also called a lot of different, creative plays. (like the wishbone)

I think that Freddie showed confidence in his offense, and they showed confidence in him in return. I get the feeling that Haley wanted to run plays, no matter how well the team could run them. Freddie ran plays the team could run well. Huge difference, and I suspect that if Freddie had been the OC from game 1, along with Baker getting the job from game 1, we would made the playoffs.

Aaaaah, got it. Thanks!

I think confidence and trust is a big part of it. I don't think the team trusted or were confident in Hue from about the mid point of the previous season.

Once the fog was lifted, it was clear sailing.

Do i need to start taking applications bro ... can’t ahve my bartender slipping .... *L* ...

What u think barkeep ... almost time for a PARADISE ISLAND THREAD ... i been ready for awhile now ... what u say bro ...

LETS GOOOOOOOoooooooooo ....

J/c

Just watched Brian Baldinger’s breakdown of Bakers 13 best passes ... towards the end of the year he was SO much more comfortable

He’s known as VICE GRIPS around here ... or VG ...

Hope that helps clear things up for u ...

Un clench and *L* for a second mac ... u may actually enjoy it ...

Its been a long time Mister Mac ... this has a shot to be a really fun year ...

Vers posted up Baker stats that he knew some people would disagree in retort to some stats about Landry someone posted which Vers had a disagreement....or something like that.

U just got me fired up even more ... didn’t think that was possible ....

LETS GOOOOOOOoooooooooooo

Please do.

When the OP drops a Landry comparison after starting the thread only 20 minutes prior and only needing one other person commenting on the subject matter to do so, it's not hard to pinpoint thread intent.

Definitely "stupid stuff".

It was a feeble attempt to compare how people are more critical of a fifth year WR than they are a rookie QB.

A rookie who had never taken a snap in the NFL. A rookie who got way better as his starts increased and was playing extremely well by seasons end.

How we should ignore all of that and hold them to the same standard.

LOL. A little behind on the caffeine this morning. No worries, I take my job on the isle seriously.

We are getting close to needing the thread. I am pumped, cannot wait for the games.

Some people like stats...some do not...I do. I don't expect these will settle any differences other posters have raised in this thread. Just my two cents...

I compared Baker's full season stats vs. all QBs who started (approx) half (or more) of the teams games (Flacco started 9 games, Jackson started 7; Winston started 9 games, Fitzpatrick started 7 so I included 34 "starters").

Because improvement over the course of the season was important to me I also calculated, as best I could, Baker's stats from his last 8 games (when Kitchen was the HC) vs. the full year for the competition (yeah, apples and oranges, I know)

QB Record % (Games Won/Games Started--I counted a tie as a half win)

Baker (all games) 46.2% 16th of 34
Baker (last 8 games) 62.5% 9th (tie) of 34

Completion %

Baker (all games) 63.8% 24th of 34
Baker (last 8 games) 68.4% 7th (tie) of 34

TD %

Baker (all games) 5.6% 11th of 34
Baker (last 8 games) 7.2% 3rd of 34

Int %

Baker (all games) 2.9% 26th of 34
Baker (last 8 games) 3.0% 26th of 34

No improvement here

QB Rating (I used the traditional NFL rating only since the ESPN rating has a proprietary methodology involving 10,000+ lines of code!!!)

Baker (all games) 93.7 19th of 34
Baker (last 8 games) 106.2 5th of 34

Yds/Att

Baker (all games) 7.7 11th (tie) of 34
Baker (last 8 games) 8.6 3rd of 34

My conclusion? Baker improved his performance when Kitchen was the HC, but I think most would agree with that opinion without needing all these stats.

I am looking forward to an exciting season.

I see your breakdown as the proper way to evaluate a rookie QB. The most important factor with a rookie QB is how he improved over the course of his rookie year.

I read the thread before this post and don't see where anybody was getting on your case. ?????

V Dog, you've posted a gazillion posts and know lot more football than me, JMHO, you could have posted pre/post Haley stats but chose not to....you like to stir the pot...Baker's a good young player, we should remember all of them are one play away from being sidelined for significant time....glad our GM has gotten decent backups for almost every position.....love Baker's drive to be better...he's a Heisman winner who works instead of partying.....GO Browns!!!!

Nice post. Sure beats the posts from the people who simply insult others.

I am wondering if it's fair to ask the question if Baker is a system QB? Todd Haley had success as a game planner and play caller in Pittsburgh, KC, and Arizona.

I also wonder if having success in one offense but not another offense that has been successful if that means teams might be able to develop game plans now that they have some tape on what the Browns did well?

Those thoughts might be asinine, feeble, stupid, pointless, and some might focus on intent rather than a real discussion, but I'm throwing them out there anyway.

Many a great NFL quarterback has been a system QB. Tom Brady, Montana, Brees, Fouts, hoards of em. You know that.

DCs will game plan for Bake, it's how we respond. I think we respond with aggressiveness on O, considering our talent, and considering our QB's makeup, both skill-wise and personality-wise.

Timmy, Charlie, Brady, Cody, Kelly and Johnny: they aren't here anymore. Baker Mayfield is. He will be fine.

This thread is archive worthy.

What? Those guys are not system qbs. Not one of them.

I'm not saying that Baker is a system qb, but are you denying that Haley didn't have success in Pittsburgh, Arizona, and for one year in KC?

haley??? I wasn't even thinking about him lol.
Moving the goal posts there??? Lol...,


You saying Brady isn't a system QB? Or Montana? You know a lot more about football than me, but I've always been under the impression that they are. The phrase can encompass a lot of offences I suppose, and some QBs are just a fit anywhere, but Montana was a lot more successful in the 49er offence then he may have been in the air coryell attack. JMHO of course....

Moving the goal posts? Bro, you replied to my post that contained the following quote.




Perhaps in your rush to defend Baker and dismiss my opinion, you missed that quote? But, I didn't move jack.

And no, I don't think any of the guys you mentioned are system qbs.

Again, I am not saying Baker is either. However, a lot of folks are talking about the difference in how he played under Haley and how he played under Freddie. They are right and I have never said otherwise.

However, Haley did have success w/other qbs in other places. Thus, I think my questions were fair. They were not proclamations. They were questions.

There is no spat or agenda to have posters join in. That's purely in your imagination. It's a football board. You posted something and I commented on it. You took umbrage with a word I used and avoided responding to the context of my posts except to say I didn't discuss "fairly". In the next post (or the preceding post) you quoted but totally misrepresented a line from a post from Pit. smh.

As someone else alluded to and then changed tack - I think you're smart and knew exactly what would happen when you deliberately tried to cherry pick stats to make Baker look average or bad in your attempt to counter points made in Landry thread. jmo

.

Rookie QB's who have never played an NFL down before improve as time goes on.

So you're basing your question if a rookie QB is a system QB based on including his first five starts without breaking down their improvement over the course of his rookie season?

And also basing that question on the assumption that Freddie managed to create the perfect system for Baker based on his first four or five starts?

As I've said before, you seem to be ignoring the obvious here. Improvement with playing time. The very gauge by which all rookie QB's are judged. And also the fact this team had zero confidence in Hue.

I mean if you're actually going to look at what happened, you can't judge it all on raw stats. It's something you've known for years and suddenly seemed to have forgotten? I don't think so.....

I think all QBs are system QBs to some degree.

As for the first half of last season, I don't think the players bought in and I don't think the powers that be at the head of the coaching group were on the same page, especially Hue and Haley. I don't think Williams had many problem with Hue because he ran his own show on D. Hue and Haley might have hated each other. That marriage was never going to work.