DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Cut Orsen Charles Sign Rico Gathers Sending Mixed Message

Cleveland Browns send wrong message signing Rico Gathers, waiving Orson Charles

by Randy Gurzi

Not long after claiming they won’t put up with Antonio Callaway’s missteps, the Cleveland Browns waived Orson Charles and signed a suspended Rico Gathers

Back in 2016, the Dallas Cowboys took a sixth-round flyer on former basketball player Rico Gathers. He hadn’t played organized football since middle school but intrigued teams with his size and athleticism. Gathers never put it all together though and was recently waived by Dallas, and then went unclaimed on waivers.

He wasn’t out of work long though, as the Cleveland Browns added him to the roster on Sunday and released tight end/fullback Orson Charles — who had seemed like a lock to make the 53-man roster.

While at first glance this move seems small, it could actually have a larger impact than intended. On the heels of wide receiver Antonio Callaway‘s suspension, the Browns added another player who has had his own red flags related to marijuana. Gathers joins Cleveland despite the fact that he will be suspended one game for a 2018 arrest for marijuana possession.

It’s really poor timing as the Browns have tried to act like a team that’s going to take a hard stance against off-field behavior. Just two days before signing Gathers, head coach Freddie Kitchens was adamant that they wouldn’t put up with indiscretions.

“We’re not willing to put up with it, OK?’’ Kitchens said of Callaway’s misstep via Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com. “When you start talking in terms of that, the person that it’s affected has to be willing to commit to doing what’s right. So if he’s willing to commit to doing what’s right, then we’re willing to support him in every way that we can, and that’s what we’re going to do until he proves us wrong.’’
That’s fine to say, but there’s really no evidence that there’s any truth to that. Cleveland not only looked the other way last season with Callaway but they also seem willing to look past this past incident.

They’ve also been willing to add players with even bigger indiscretions as they signed running back Kareem Hunt who was released by the Kansas City Chiefs for shoving and kicking a woman.

It’s due to these signings that general manager John Dorsey is getting a reputation for signing troubled players. As soon as Hunt was released, the ties were there to the Browns. The same kind of chatter was going on when there was a concern that the Chiefs could release Tyreek Hill had he been found guilty of child abuse.

Gathers is suspended for 1 game to start the season. The Browns again overlook troubled history of a player and sign him anyway.

This isn’t all being said to insinuate the Browns like troubled kids, or that they should never take a chance on anyone. And in the case of Gathers, he has shown some flashes of being an athletic playmaker, it’s just that those flashes have only come in the preseason as he has only three receptions and 45 yards to his name in the regular season.

However, signing a player with the same off-field concerns as Callaway just days after trying to take a verbal hard line with him sure sends mixed signals.

It’s even more concerning when a player such as Charles, who has done everything right, is the one who is let go in favor of a suspended player.

Link

no one cares if you win the Super Bowl.

As a longtime fan of the Saints fan, and the Browns were my #2, I can understand the locker room chemistry concerns.

What we have learned in New Orleans is that when our team is stocked with real, no nonsense, dedicated players, we have often been successful in bringing in a player who had some behavioral or attitude issues. When our locker room lacked this strong team leadership, it was usually a disaster bringing in problematic players.

Your Browns are loaded with talent. I just hope Mayfield is a strong enough leader to squash any negative locker room players. Personally, I think he is.

I also thinks this speaks to what the coaches may see in Trayone Gray. He had a couple of good runs in game 1 of preseason, and I've read he's doing well at practice. He could be the 'other' big back to have behind Chubb, but primary role is FB.

The roster move itself doesn’t bother me. John Dorsey’s lack of concern for character will come back to bite us hard at some point.

Yeah, I scratch my head on this one too. I thought Orson was a decent blocker. Remove the troubled history part of the equation w/this guy...it seems odd to cut him when they could have cut somebody else who def isn't going to make the team. Also seems odd to cut our 1st team blocking TE/FB given that we won't even have his replacement until game 2.

Orson Charles was a class act. I'll miss him.

So, then we sign another guy in trouble??

I don't get it.

What the hell position does this new guy play???

The idiot reporter FAILED to say in his article.

I'm guessing WR....

The national media isn't reporting on it so....we good!

This might be Dorsey's flaw. He tosses the dice on players.

I am a Gator fan and like Calloway, but when he had his deal last year Dorsey said he was on his last chance.

Well, here we are this year and Calloway wasn't cut and we cut a good egg to add another bad egg.

I am squinting my eyes and scratching my head.

Maybe John needs to either quit talking about last chances or follow-up on what he says.

Hollow statements catch up with you...he had KC in a good position, yet he was fired. We can blame it on a power struggle, but now I am beginning to wonder.

I don't see the mixed message part ... this has always been his MO ..... KJ could care less about character ... he looks at ability/potential and if you can help the team ... thats it ...

U check those boxes and your golden in his eyes ...

I'm not going to judge the move yet, but this dude only checks one of your three boxes, potential. Even that seems questionable after four years in the league and given his current suspension. He hasn't shown any ability, and it's not clear at all whether he can help the team. Charles, on the other hand, is a proven vet. I don't mind taking a swing at the fences, Hunt is a perfect example of that, I'm just not sure this is even a decent bunt.

I didn’t know Gathers had issues off the field before, I just know he’s not consistent or reliable on the field. This is a strange move IMO ... and probably not significant, but Dorsey has no issues with red flags lol

In the end he probably doesn’t even make the team.

KJ must have determines Charles wasn’t gonna help the team and wanted a look to see if the underachiever could ... that gives him 2 boxes ....

Is KJ a fan of meatloaf ... *L* ...

Njoku and Harris are gonna make it ...

How many do teams usually keep? ...

Three. But Pharoah Brown, Seth Devalve, and John Carlson have been with the team all off-season. I'd assume they'd be kept over a guy off the street in the middle of training camp.

I agree ... not sure why he was signed ....

Can Carlson block or is he another “athletic” TE like the rest of the roster seems to be ...

And I gotta think Seth’s days are numbered ... he’s always hurt .. nuttin u can do about concussions but with his history that don’t help ...

Better for Charles to be released now, I suppose. It could allow him to find another landing spot. Unless the Browns know something we do not.

I felt like Charles was our best blocking option; but maybe we also like that FB we just signed too

Dorsey sucks.

I really miss the days of Farmer and Sashi. All their good moves. Never any dysfunction. Never any bashing from the national media. Rosters were much more talented.

I swear, cutting Charles and signing Gathers is going to derail the entire season. "Oh me, oh my, where has my Sweet Sashi gone?"

Maybe there's something going on here that we just aren't aware of. Doesn't make much sense otherwise.

I'm sure its just coincidental that the video/photo attached to the article featured Tyreek Hill. I'm not familiar with the author, but he might have an issue with Dorsey that colors his so called "reporting".

I think this is the reason.

Harris might have been looked at as the upgrade on Charles all along.

All these moves, I hope they help the team beat Pittsburgh.

I don't think he sucks.

Yep. Maybe they knew Charles wasn't in their plans and released him so he has a chance to play for another team before roster cut downs, and signed the other guy to take his place for camp reps.

What I find hilarious, is that you complain you are not allowed to bash baker, but yet when someone bashes a Dorsey move - you insult and jump down their throat.

Dorsey is the best GM we have had in decades. Dorsey has made two very odd moves the last week that are questionable. 1. this move, and 2. back tracking on his threat to AC.

Ill take 9/10 great moves from a GM, doesn't mean we cant criticize the 1 bad move.

Most teams have no use for a FB/TE.

Belichick does.

This MAY answer some of our questions regarding this signing:

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Why the Cleveland Browns signed tight end Rico Gathers
by Elliot Kennel

The signing of Rico Gathers and subsequent release of Orson Charles was unexpected, but there are reasons that this was a good move by the Cleveland Browns
Although Cleveland Browns fans are going to miss the blue-collar, high energy attitude of departed fullback Orson Charles, there are reasons why his replacement Rico Gathers may be a good signing.

Though Charles and Gathers are both listed as tight ends, Charles was actually used as a fullback most of the time last year. His blocking helped Nick Chubb to gain yards, and he also helped to protect Baker Mayfield in the pocket. Those blocks didn’t show up in the box score, nor did he score many points for your fantasy football team, but he was a much-valued member of the team.

On the surface, this sounds like a horrible idea. Gathers is currently serving a one-game suspension, allegedly for failing a marijuana test. What kind of message does this send young players like Antonio Callaway, who is currently trying to decide between a career in the NFL and a career in rehab? DPD’s own Randy Gurzi takes the Browns to task in his article which asks how the Browns can sign a guy who screws up with substance abuse while cutting a guy who was such a positive addition?

Here are some reasons: first, the Browns 2019 offense may not feature a fullback, or if it does it may be a different type than the big bopper type like Charles. In the past, this writer has advocated using a fullback based on the rationale that there were no extra wide receivers that would not embarrass the team by putting them on the field.

In 2019, the situation is different. The Browns can go with four and even five receiver formations that could genuinely cause opposing defensive coordinators to pee their pants. If your skill guys include Odell Beckham, Jarvis Landry, Rashard Higgins, Nick Chubb, and David Njoku, who do you want to sit down in order to put the fullback into play?

Even Derrick Willies, Damion Ratley and Damon Sheehy-Guiseppi might cause more damage than the fullback. Moreover, Browns offensive coordinator Todd Monken did not use a fullback in Tampa Bay last year.

The Browns may be shifting to a different type of blocking back than in the past, smaller backs who can slow down a pass-rusher if not pancake blocking him into the ground. Last year they used recently departed Duke Johnson and Dontrell Hilliard as part of two-back sets. In this case, their role is often to throw a block to slow down the pass rush, and then hang out in the flat as the safety valve receiver. This is a relatively new concept, but perhaps the Browns are moving away from the Orson Charles type fullback.

Second, this kid Rico Gathers is a physical freak. At 6-foot-8 and 282-pounds, he’s big enough to take on a defensive lineman. Gathers, it may be recalled, was a college basketball player at Baylor, but because of his size, speed, and ball-handling ability, the Dallas Cowboys took a chance on him. It’s probably worth a look based on his athletic ability.

Third, while the alleged marijuana issue is troubling (as you may recall, the Browns had trouble with two other Baylor receivers in Josh Gordon and Corey Coleman), the league has created a loophole for Gathers. If the Browns like him, they do not have to create a roster spot for him until Week 2. Week 1 he is suspended, so the Browns don’t have to pay him and are not charged for his roster spot. Essentially, for Week 1, they would have a 55 person roster instead of 53 due to Antonio Callaway and Gathers not counting to the total but still tied to the team.

Substance abuse is a major concern for the health of a player. It’s not that they ingested a substance like marijuana, so much as that there is a fear that the player may be susceptible to becoming an addict. There’s a certain percentage of people on this planet who simply can not handle mind-altering substances. But this is not an ethical or moral issue on the same level as a child abuser or spouse abuser.

As injuries mount, it will be easier to find room for the players currently on sabbatical. In any case, there is zero risk to the team other than the psychological risk of once again ignoring the yellow caution light about substance abusers.

Though Gurzi is right that the psychological message is troubling, from a pragmatic standpoint the Browns risk nothing by signing a player on suspension, and that additional roster spot for the opening game may come in handy. Fans will miss Orson Charles, however, and here’s hoping he lands another job in the NFL.

https://dawgpounddaily.com/2019/08/12/why-cleveland-browns-signed-rico-gathers/

I wouldn't automatically think that this signing is the reason why we cut Charles.

We did just sign a FB from GB.

No, but as the article says, it gives us 1 week to determine 1 roster spot and 4 weeks to determine the other.

Now that makes some sense.

We may have known Charles wasn't going to make the team for whatever reason, so replace him with this guy, who we may already know isn't going to make the team, but he makes it suspended, we can wait a week in to the season on one of two bubble players.

Sounds like John and Depo were playing chess one night last week.

Depo?

You were bashing Dorsey when you didn't like the move. Now that you think it might be smart, you included Depo.

Go away man.

I read the article and it made some sense to me. A thinkers move. Unlike some, I change my opinion when something is presented that makes sense. I am not pigeon holed in to any one position by pride, so keep on doing what you are doing.

Had you said something similar this morning, I would have read it and said, sorry man, I agree.

You are so swept up in your love for Hue you can't see straight anymore.

I am way over that but you still seem bunched up. You were the one bringing up Sashi.

Now you seem bunched up that Depo still has anything to do with the team. He is the strategy officer. Seems like good strategy.

Get over it my friend. I don't get the hatred. It doesn't seem healthy to me.

I hope you are OK.

Love for Hue? LMAO

I'm glad he's gone.

You were ripping Dorsey earlier for making this move and did not include Depo at all.

Now, when you see the very same move might have been made in a positive light.........you included Depo. You are still fighting the Sashi fight.

I hope you are okay, too........even though I don't care for you.

I am not fighting the Sashi fight.

I didn't bring it up earlier because I didn't see it. It looked like a bad move, and to a degree still do, but it makes sense.

Depo is the strategy officer, no? I don't think it out of bounds he had input.


Oh, I care for you. Just the difference's in our personalities I suppose.

And the edit to answer a question....why would I include Depo early this morning. He doesn't have much say over roster spots.

Once the strategic implications came in to play, it changed.

I liked Charles, because he was a great teammate, but he is not the best FB or TE, so this move gives us some better options with the TE and the FB we added imo.

Versatile Dog is a strange person.

Seems to be a strange person. The way you have described.

Agreed FL ... he was a good locker room dude and effort guy, but there are better blocking options for us, which is what we need