DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns 2019 training camp preview: Analyzing the offensive line

I don't disagree with you in principal. You should always be looking to make upgrades anywhere you can. I'm just not sure the upgrades you've been suggesting come at a "reasonable cost".

That's a very subjective term. I have little doubt that Dorsey will explore all options. I'm just not sure he will see eye to eye with you on what the term "reasonable cost" means.

Nobody would be happier than myself to see upgrades on the OL at the LT position especially. RG takes a lesser skill set and can possibly be upgraded at a much lesser price.

But the players it seems you have promoted, ( Williams, Tunsil ), I don't feel will be legitimate options due to being cost prohibitive.

Not even sure what your trying to say here ... your making less sense than usual ... and lately u been really struggling .... this is another case of 0 + 0 = 3,224 ..

Ill make it simple for it ... if u have a hold a game ... no matter what else u do ... YOUR BELOW AVERAGE ...

Hope that helps ...

Not sure what your issue is lately? But damn man.......all you do is mock others and you don't even offer football talk. You are the dude who coined the phrase "Stats are for losers. Yet, you use one stat to say our LT sucks and you refuse to acknowledge that our OL was ranked second overall by PFF last year.

Moving on................have there been reports that Dorsey is interested in trading for Tunsil or Williams? Both those guys would cost a fortune. They would not come at a "reasonable price."

I am all for upgrading the roster, but damn man, at some point, we need to practice fiscal responsibility. Contracts are going to appear on the horizon and we can't have an entire roster of elite players. It's not practical. Hell, we will probably not be able to keep all the guys we have now. Trading first round picks for the likes of T. Williams is pretty dumb in my estimation.

At some point, all of our superstars might have to actually justify the status that's been assigned to them.

Cleveland Browns could hide Brian Fineanganofo against Lions in attempt to get him to practice squad

https://mavensports.io/browns/browns-mav...FUqpfwqe7O8zBw/

by
Pete Smith

In an effort to make it less risky transition to the practice squad, the Cleveland Browns may opt to hide offensive tackle Brian Fineanganofo against the Detroit Lions.

The Cleveland Browns preseason finale will feature a number of players trying to earn roster spots, but it's also worth keeping an eye on players who don't play or don't play much. The starters are unlikely to play at all in this game, but there may be players that are borderline the Browns don't want to showcase because they don't want other teams to see them; the idea being that other teams will be less likely to gamble and claim guys they haven't seen enough making it easier to get them to the practice squad.

One player that stands out for this could be Brian Fineanganofo, who has played less and less in each preseason game despite doing pretty well for himself. Now, some of this could be due to Freddie Kitchens being dissattisfied with his starters, particularly in the third preseason game against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, but Fineanganofo's reps dropped as a result. The undrafted offensive tackle out of Idaho State has the size and athletic traits to be a good NFL tackle, looked capable in the opportunities he's had.

Fineanganofo is clearly still feeling things out in pass protection, but has gotten the job done. He's got a lot more work to do as a run blocker, but he's got the strength and movement skills to do it. If they can get him to the practice squad, they can work on his technique as he gets stronger in the weight room.

Based on his physical talent, he's got more potential than Desmond Harrison did. He's also younger. Fineanganofo has a lot of traits that would seemingly stand out to offensive line coach James Campen. If they suffer an injury, he might get the first call up to the roster. With a year, he might be able to develop into the swing tackle. Or more.

When it comes to discussions about eliminating preseason games or having more joint practices, this could be a big factor. There has been some suggestion about televising them, but that seems unlikely as teams don't want to give up anything they don't have to when it comes to plays, formations or having volume, so that can opponents might pick up some info. This is the other factor. Fewer preseason games could make it easier to hide guys and then sneak them onto the practice squad; great for teams, but not for players.

It would be great to get to see Fineanganofo get a half or a full game worth of reps, but if he doesn't or gets a conspicuously low number despite being able to play, it might be because they don't want anyone else to see him.

If this is true, I'm sure the Browns are thrilled w/Pete Smith for reporting this news. LOL

Haha exactly; thanks Pete!

I'm pretty much done wasting my time with him. He screams stats are for losers then bases his entire premise on a single stat. I guess when he says stats are for losers he must be talking about himself.

You hit the nail on the head when stating the OL worked fine as a unit. Sure we could upgrade the LT position, but Diam makes it sound like Robinson sucks. He's not that bad .

What concerns me with the O-line is our run blocking. Last year we ranked 3rd in the league in pass blocking but only 16th in run blocking and we just replaced 1 of our better run blockers with a journeyman player in Kush, who while being a very good pass blocker has always graded out as a poor run blocker. What is going to happen when we are in a goal line or short yardage situation and we can't get any push to run for that 1 yard.

JC

A couple things I've been thinking about lately regarding the offensive line. First, I'm sure it is an area of concern and the staff has a short list of talent from around the league that current coaches see as viable options. In other words - barring devastating injury, I'm not worried. There's probably also a short list of "project players" that we may take a gamble on. The Patriots did that today, adding Jermaine Eluemunor, huge upside but some recent conditioning, injury and (on the field) discipline concerns.

With that said, we're not going to improve the position by leaps and bounds without a huge trade. Not seeing that this year, unless the "devastating injury" bug rears it's ugly face... I would rather address the O-Line in the next draft or free agency than sacrifice any assets this year. This year, we've painted ourselves into the "make it work" corner.

Second, I don't think "making it work" is such a stretch, regardless of what people argue as far as "talent level" with the group we have now.

With the "chicken or the egg" arguments over a QB making a OL better, or vice versa, I think a lot of people ignore the "third head" of this monster -- scheme. Good scheme, good play-calling, an obvious improvement in the WR corps, and a second year QB who has already seen the game "slow down" for him, quiets a lot of the concerns, for me anyway.

I found this article and will post part of it here because it was clearly one of the factors that led to immediate success for Baker and the offense last year, particularly after Kitchens took over. It's a good read from start to finish, this is just a few points. It's from Jake Burns in week 16 of last season:



How the Browns offense is keeping the pocket clean for Baker Mayfield: Film Room


MAX PROTECTION

Under the leadership of Todd Haley, the Browns were often running out of "11" personnel (one running back, one tight end, three wide receivers).

This left them in a formation with three wide receivers -- a position of weakness early in the season -- far too often. It left the Browns vulnerable against pressure for Haley's long-developing route concepts.

Kitchens has made frequent use of the mass protection we see above, where the Browns love to move their back-side guard across the scheme to sell run action, only to see him kick out the rush end. This also allows them to down block off the snap to create better angles. It lends itself to several double teams at the point of attack.

This scheme has been the staple of the Browns' play-action look since Kitchens took over. It has produced some of the Browns' best downfield concepts.



RUNNING BACK OR TIGHT END CHIP

Since Kitchens took over the play calling, the Browns have often employed the tight end or running back chip to help out where they view a weakness in a match-up.

The Browns used it several times against Houston and Denver, and they did the same Sunday against the Bengals. Watch Duke Johnson chip the backside defensive end here. In doing so, it changes the rush course and slows down the quick upfield speed.

In simpler terms, it completely changes the rush approach for the defensive end and helps Robinson win his matchup. Seems simple enough.

The Browns have been wise to do this often over the second half of the schedule.



QUICK THROWS

The Browns have done a nice job improving their tempo since Week 9. Far too often, Haley was forcing the Browns' tackles to play on an island in schemes that were taking too long to develop.

One of the common answers from Mayfield when asked about Kitchens' impact on him as a play-caller has touched on "getting his eyes right." This means having your eyes in the exact place they need to be as a quarterback to deliver the ball on time and accurately.

On Sunday against Cincinnati, Kitchens and Mayfield did a nice job of aligning again.

When the Browns went with an empty backfield or four-receiver sets, Mayfield had the defense deciphered quickly, and knew right where to go with the football.

Things are easier on your offensive line when your quarterback has the ball out well before the rush ever becomes a factor.


https://expo.cleveland.com/sports/erry-2018/12/5ca5bc28699835/how-the-browns-offense-is-keep.html

I agree.

To your last question: Forbes will replace Kush at the goal line and obvious short-yardage runs. IMO.

Robinson was among the worst players in the league except for the games he played last season.

I am not sure what you are trying to say here. Does it matter how he was in the games he did not play?

I’m not sure either ... but i don’t really care ...

Maybe CFR is in Pit’s camp that averaging one hold a game makes u average ... it is a brave new world ou there ... and it appears penalties don’t count in it ... *L* ....

Stats are for losers.

I could have said that much better.

I meant that he was terrible the whole rest of his career and then was only good last year in a small sample size. The evidence would show that he is actually terrible.

I agree that we will probably try to upgrade a starter or two on the OL after the season in FA and/or the draft. I said earlier that I think we might try to improve our depth after the cuts this year. I think it would be dumb to make a huge trade for Williams or Tunsil.

I agree w/66 that the run blocking is a far greater concern than the pass blocking. I've said that a few times before.

I agree w/you that scheme is important. There was a significant difference between Haley and Freddie in regards to protection.

I do think some are championing this OL isn't good as a built-in excuse if Baker doesn't play well. As I said in earlier posts, the OL is an easy target for fans and media members when things go wrong.

I think using one stat in isolation to say a guy stinks is not very intelligent or sincere. Especially when the time isn't even taken to see if some of those holds came after Baker broke out of the pocket and was scrambling around outside of the tackle box.

I think it is absurd for people to say that the OL did not do a very good job of protecting Baker last year. I think it is fair to say he wouldn't have had such a good year had he played behind OLs like the Giants, Cardinals, Bills, Jets, Bucs, etc.

I would not mind us signing a big time FA next year and also drafting a guy fairly high. It would be nice to upgrade the unit, but I would not risk the future on making a big trade for a guy this year.

Thanks for playing.

So diam, what you believe is that if our left tackle, going against some of the best pass rushers in the league, has one holding penalty per game and gives up zero sacks and zero pressures, you would find that unacceptable?? really??

last season in the last eight games we played two of the best pass rush combinations in the league. Von Miller+ Chubb and watt + mercilus + clowney. Do you remember how our oline fared in those two games. Surely against that level of pass rush our guys were just dominated. Multiple sacks and multiple pressures. Maybe?? You ought to look that information up and then tell me how much better it would have been if t. Williams was our left tackle and tunsil was our right tackle.

What I find odd is people putting more stock in some pff number than what we saw on the field the last eight games. Aren’t you one who stresses what you see with your eyes over “stats”?? Well look at our games and how our line performed as a unit. That is what counts.

All that said, if John and Freddie think we need to upgrade our oline and the price is right for them then I am all in. Looking forward to next Sunday!!

I've never heard of this guy. He started seven games for Buffalo last season.

Click through the link for a thread of Tweets.

Alright....alright. That and he looks like a Viking.

At the very least Teller has got to have more upside than Eric Kush.

I know nothing about him ... seems like he’s gonna start soon if we gave up that much. Hopefully it’s the right move

Has anyone heard of any of those guys he could not beat out in buffalo??

...

You need to recheck your math,giving a 5th and 6th for a player and a 7th is not giving up much.
Quite the opposite,it tells me he's veiwed as depth.

This ones interesting ... the Jill’s have a pretty bad OL .... never thought we’d be picking up or trading for someone off their scrap heap ...

Cool ... we even got rotoworld setting up the OL in case Bake fails ... ...

WYATT TELLER
G, CLEVELAND BROWNS

Browns acquired OG Wyatt Teller and a seventh-round pick from the Bills in exchange for fifth- and sixth-round picks.

The seventh-rounder is a 2021 selection, while the fifth- and sixth-round picks are in 2020. It's a rather desperate gambit from a team that knows it must improve its offensive line. The No. 166 overall pick of last year's draft, Teller was buried on the depth chart in Buffalo but played 475 (sub-replacement level) snaps as a rookie. The Cleveland Plain Dealer considers Teller a candidate to start at right guard over Eric Kush.

RELATED: Buffalo Bills
SOURCE: Chris Brown on Twitter
Aug 29, 2019, 4:08 PM ET

j/c:

No way Sashi gives up that much.

Mixed bag on one of the Bills message boards. Some guys saying they're not happy about it. Other guys saying he was going to be cut anyway.

Kind of surprising a few days before cut downs. I’m sure they have a pretty good idea who’s going to hit the market league wide but there’s always surprises. I am glad that they’re actively trying to solve what I consider the biggest potential season killer problem with the OL and there’s still more work to be done. But this does seem a little desperation right before cuts.