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I count 7 FA starters on offense:
JJ
Stein
Fraley
McKinney
Shaffer
Andersen
Lewis
2nd team offense has 7:
Carter
Dorsey -trade
Freidman- trade
Butler
Heiden
Wright
Ali
And 5 FA starters on D:
Roye
TW
R Smith
Peek
Bodden
7 defensive back ups were FA's:
Smith
Kelley
Griffin
K Wright
Holly
Baxter
Adams
So if I've added right that's 26 out of 44 spots (11 O, 11D, X2). So we have 18 first and second stringers that we drafted.
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And Dawson, FA signing,... Make it 45..
What's the break down on the other 8
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
He could have stood pat and drafted someone else (or maybe still have gotten DQ) without giving anything up. We could have kept Faine and had some depth on the OL, thus strengthening the team.
See this is the stuff I hate,,, Coulda shoulda woulda,,, it's history,, it is what it is and the thinking was sound,,,
We get a FA Pro Bowl level Center in Bentley,,, we no longer need Faine, but if we can't get something worth while,, we keep him,, but we DO get something worthwhile and we draft DQ. THE DECISION MAKING WAS SOUND, ,,,,,,,
YOU Can't find anything wrong with it unless you look at REVISING history to include what coulda happened instead of what did...
Deal with it, it's what it is!
I agree it was a sound decision. And I never said we shouldn't have done it. I never even mentioned anything about Bentley getting hurt and that it would have been nice to have him.
All I'm saying is trading Faine to get DQ needs to be a part of the equation when evaluating the 'building through the draft' question, IMO.
You're wordsmithing to make it seem like I'm saying something that I'm not. A lot of you 50-somethings do that on this board I've noticed.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Bodden was an UDFA that signed with Cleveland following the draft. That's a little different than signing someone as a UFA from another team. He was developed and has played his entire career in Cleveland.
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"Hopefully that's Nose tackle"
Ding! Ding! Ding!!! give that dawg a bone 
On a 3-4 Defensive team that is the 5th key.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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"I think you need a nap. First to the "Liar Liar" nut-uh! You are! -GMAFB this isn't third grade."
No football...just as I expected you make up crapola then when called upon you pull some third grade nonsense and ignore your lies! 
You can't count this years draft?? You're the one who started this thread about Savage's drafts...so you cut out 1/3 of the data. 
"Don't embarass yourself man! Do you want me to cut and paste the "cuts" off the Browns webiste?? Guess what the first step in getting to the practice squad is? It's GETTING CUT FROM THE TEAM."
Gee I didn't know that Thanks for telling me. There not on the Team? sorry they attend all practices and team meetings. Learn about a subject matter before you speak.
Your post was a complete cover up on a subject matter that you chose to post about. Instead all you have done is make us stuff and show off your ignorance on the subject matter.
Next time talk to me with some football. And you can start with how Savage was suppose to come here with the purpose of hitting on our 3rd n 4th round draft picks... either you are a liar or you are ignorant...your choice 
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
All I'm saying is trading Faine to get DQ needs to be a part of the equation when evaluating the 'building through the draft' question, IMO.
Now who's taking stuff out of context... the two moves are inextricably tied together... If not for the Signing of Bentley, I can't see the Browns trading Faine... can you? That's not to say that they wouldn't have but it does seem unlikely..
What I was originally responding to was Gifthorse when he said:
Quote:
Wimbley and DQ are certainly quality players, giving up a starter in FAine to get DQ kinda offsets it from "outstanding" down to "good".
My comment was this:
Quote:
Well Gee, it's easy to second guess it now given what's happened to Bentley.. Getting him made Faine expendable.
So in retrospect, sure, it's easy to say the trading of faine to get DQ dropped the draft from "outstanding" to "good", but it's not accurate when you look at the entire picture... We didn't trade Faine to get DQ. We traded Faine because we had Bentley.. we just happened to use the pick we got for Faine on DQ. it's NOT a straight up trade of Faine for DQ.. Never has been.
I don't think I'm making myself very clear..I'm trying, but it's not working well I fear.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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So did heend up anywhere? I lost track of a few of these "players" (if you can imagine that). Not exactly a league of superheroes by any stretch. Still, I rooted for 'em, maybe too long. But as a Browns fan, it's kinda like a momma what fetches an ugly baby into this world: It's yours, so obligated to carry it after it arrives. Heck, I even pimped Ben Gay for awhile there. Go figure. May the Elf be with us! 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Quote:
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How many guys in any round are still here from the Butch Davis era or even still in the league?
Quite a few:
4 97 Anthony Henry DB South Florida
5 141 Andra Davis LB Florida
4 122 Darnell Sanders TE Ohio State
4 111 Ben Taylor LB Virginia Tech
4 101 Kevin Bentley LB Northwestern
6 195 Antonio Garay DE Boston College
5 152 Michael Lehan DB Minnesota
5 142 Ryan Pontbriand C Rice
7 208 Adimchinobe Echemandu RB California
5 161 Amon Gordon DE Stanford
4 106 Luke McCown QB Louisiana Tech
HOW do you leave off Kellen Winslow Jr. and Sean Jones?
I took the nature of the question to be about 4th round picks and later. I left off all 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks.
oh 
![[Linked Image from i4.photobucket.com]](http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/Defiantmac/nickk2.jpg) PRO-BOWLER!
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You're making yourself quite clear. Every personnel change is intertwined. You don't pay Bentley all that FA money and pay 1st round money to Faine as a back up. That would have made no sense. Once Bentley was acquired,everybody who knows jack squat about football,knew Faine was gone. It just made sense. Gift Horse wants to isolate the draft and not look at "player personnel moves as a whole". That simply holds no merrit. Common sense dictates you don't pay HUGE FA bucks and high first round money BOTH at the C position. That WOULD have made Phil look like an idiot. Instead,he did the smart thing and Gift Horse is looking like the.......................well,you know. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I would give Phil a pass on the 1st draft as he really didn't have much prep time. I know some might say he was preparing for balt's draft but that just isn't the same. And he had to revamp the entire front office and coaching staff...yadda, yadda, yadda. So I will not judge Phil on draft #1.
The second year I think was pretty solid.
Year 3 - not enough time to make a eval one way or the other.
Someone mentioned Pool. I am not very high on him. Yes he is young but he just doesn't look good. He had a horrible game vs Pitt last week. Last year our D was far superior when Russell was in the lineup. I'm sorry we let Russell go. I think we should have kept him.
As a corollary to the Pool comments I hope we resign Hamalton when he is recovered from his injury. I thought he had tremendous potential and made good strides last season. I know he struggled this training camp - was that because of the injury? Maybe Baxter will take over for Pool when his knees are healthy enough for him to see the field.
Eo - nice literary reference.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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And re: Faine. He did ok for us when healthy unfortunately he was hardly ever healthy when he was on our team.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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This is the only argument you need:
First Day Picks Before Savage:
1999
1- QB Tim Couch (mediocre and out of football)
2- WR Kevin Johnson (underachiever, now a scrub player)
2- OLB Rahim Abdullah (anyone remeber this guy? didn't think so, out of football)
3- DB Daylon McCuthcheon (value pick in the 3rd round, however currently out of football)
3- DB Marquis Smith (out of football)
2000
1- DE Courtney Brown (injury prone, currently out of football)
2- WR Dennis Northcutt (inconsistent WR, currently plays for the Jags)
3- RB Travis Prentice (out of football)
3- WR JaJuan Jackson (out of football)
2001
1- DT Gerrard Warren (bust, traded twice in 3 years)
2- WR Quincy Morgan (below average WR, not with the team, limited to special teams)
3- RB James Jackson (did nothing, out of football)
2002
1- RB William Green (bust, out of football)
2- WR Andre Davis (injury prone, no longer with team)
3- Melvin Fowler (no longer with team)
2003
1- C Jeff Faine (decent center for Browns, traded, pro bowl alternate for Saints)
2- OLB Chaun Thompson (drafted way too high, took years before he has begun to pan out)
3- DB Chris Crocker (no longer with team, traded)
2004
1- TE Kellen Winslow (missed almost 2 full seasons, however is one of the best TE's in the NFL, however Butch traded our 2nd rounder to move up one spot)
2- DB Sean Jones (great starting safety for Browns)
20 first day picks before Savage:
10 are no longer in football
7 play for other teams
no one drafted before 2003 is a Brown, only Thompson, Jones, and Winslow still play for Cleveland.
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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Savage First Day Picks:
2005
1- WR Braylon Edwards (weak draft class, but Braylon must prove this year he can be a starting WR, IMO he is a better #2 than #1)
2- DB Brodney Pool ( starting safety, still very young)
3- QB Charlie Frye (rushed into action, inefficient, traded)
2006
1- OLB Kamerion Wimbley (team sack leader, extremely solid player)
2- ILB D'Qwell Jackson (solid starting linebacker)
3- WR Travis Wilson (inconsistent WR, needs to show something this season)
2007
1- OT Joe Thomas (starting LT)
1- QB Brady Quinn (franchise heir apparent to QB position)
2- CB Eric Wright (starting CB)
of Savages 9 first day picks:
6 are current starters (7 started at one point)
1 not with team (only 1 appears to have roster spot in jeopardy)
2 top 5 prospects drafted in 2007
IMO Savage is not the problem, he has been working on the solution. If Matt Millen can survive all these years in Detroit, there is no way Savage should get canned in Cleveland.
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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Quote:
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All I'm saying is trading Faine to get DQ needs to be a part of the equation when evaluating the 'building through the draft' question, IMO.
Now who's taking stuff out of context... the two moves are inextricably tied together... If not for the Signing of Bentley, I can't see the Browns trading Faine... can you? That's not to say that they wouldn't have but it does seem unlikely..
What I was originally responding to was Gifthorse when he said:
Quote:
Wimbley and DQ are certainly quality players, giving up a starter in FAine to get DQ kinda offsets it from "outstanding" down to "good".
My comment was this:
Quote:
Well Gee, it's easy to second guess it now given what's happened to Bentley.. Getting him made Faine expendable.
So in retrospect, sure, it's easy to say the trading of faine to get DQ dropped the draft from "outstanding" to "good", but it's not accurate when you look at the entire picture... We didn't trade Faine to get DQ. We traded Faine because we had Bentley.. we just happened to use the pick we got for Faine on DQ. it's NOT a straight up trade of Faine for DQ.. Never has been.
I don't think I'm making myself very clear..I'm trying, but it's not working well I fear.
Believe it or not I think we're almost on the same side of this arguement  I'm not trying to second guess the DQ deal. In fact, I'm generally satisfied/happy with it because DQ has looked so good.
I felt that we overpaid as DQ was an unknown at the time; but again, he's looked very good.
So....... another analogy..... If you pay $150,000 for a house that's worth $140,000 that's fine if it works out long term but it's risky. DQ looks like he'll cover the high price paid for him- I just don't think it was an "outstanding" value.
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I really dont know what to think of the draft over the past few years, maybe if we compared it to other teams it would be easier to see, but just like recruiting, drafts have busts, underachievers and problems like every other player on any other sport or level.
I would like to see how many other teams 2nd day picks are still on their team or even still in the league.
Phil was brought in because of his input with Baltimore in bringing in 1st round Pro Bowlers. Those picks in baltimore also had a great cast around them. Phils picks in Cleveland show Pro Bowl potential. The problem is that players like Wimbley is someone where the opposing offenses are looking out for. You cant focas on Terrel Suggs when you have his supporting cast. When you are counting on 2nd day picks to be a big part of the team, your in trouble.
You also have to put Bentley into the equation with the Faine trade. DQ will be good but the Browns could have looked so much differant. I still wanted to keep Faine to be Bentleys backup or if a guard got hurt Faine could still start center, and Bentley moved to guard. Plus he was only going to make $500,000. Great value for an experianced backup with so much starting experiance. I loved his hussle following the play till the whistles were blown. He only traded up a few picks and he might have even fallen. If not, there were so many players that were available. I would have been satisfied with Chaun Thompson starting in the middle if it meant having McNeil starting in the o-line. A player the Chargers picked way later in the first round and I thought he could have easily been a mid 1st round pick. I also didnt like Wilson over Norwood in the 3rd.
If that was the worst Phil has done to this team, thats nowhere near the damage Clark and Davis done thru the draft. Plus we dont have Bentley into that equation. Thats alot of salary cap space sitting on the PUP list.
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Pit, it's good to know someone thinks I make sense... And presidentdawg,, thanks for your input, that should put to bed all thoughts of Savage sucking...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Bodden was an UDFA that signed with Cleveland following the draft. That's a little different than signing someone as a UFA from another team. He was developed and has played his entire career in Cleveland.
All true, I was just trying to isolate on the guys we spent pick on
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And re: Faine. He did ok for us when healthy unfortunately he was hardly ever healthy when he was on our team.
Faine's health wasn't too bad. He started 14 games in 2005, 13 in 2004, and 9 in 2003 which was his rookie year.
http://www.nfl.com/players/jefffaine/profile?id=FAI112720
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Savage is not the problem, he has been working on the solution. If Matt Millen can survive all these years in Detroit, there is no way Savage should get canned in Cleveland.
1- Millen should have been canned a LONG time ago and 31 other owners know it as well as every last fan in Michigan.
2- I don't think Savage should be canned either, I just would like it if we could evaluate him based on what he's accomplished - not because some fans think they can see a halo around his head
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12 games in 3 years. That is bad health to me and that isn't even counting the # of games he didn't finish.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Not only has he done a good job in the draft,but he's brought in GREAT FA's. Unless of course you feel he shoulkd have a crytal ball that predicts injuries too?
Baxter,Bentley,Steinbach,Fraley (and he was a reach)
All in all,Phil has brought more "actuial talent in here" than the previous two regimes combined. MOST of our starters would be great additions to other NFL rosters. That's something we could never say before Phil got here.
That has nothing to do with a halo,just the facts of the matter when it comes to the overall talent he's assembled to this point.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Pit, it's good to know someone thinks I make sense...
As long as you don't begin to expect it on a regular basis...........
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Nice post, Pit. It has a "ring of truth" that cuts through all the spin and obfuscation that can show up when stats, charts and numbers start getting thrown around. Which brings me to a point I've wanted to make in several of these recent nit-picky "Phil's player personnel picks" threads: Quote:
MOST of our starters would be great additions to other NFL rosters.
...which is why we still bark at each other in message threads, and still see some crappy play on Sundays. Players who constitute good additions on other teams must function as absolute cornerstones on ours... no room for error. That's not an indictment against Phil as much as it's a testament to how truly awful we were before he came here.
Beyond the bad players we had on the roster, there was also a severe case of systemic dysfunction, which showed itself in: inept FO leadership, a disjunct, practially nonexistent core of players, lousy drafting, bad team morale, and fan dissatisfaction. Tough mountain to climb, if you ask me. At least 3, (maybe 4) of those 5 are being addressed. The fans will become less dissatisfied when the other changes get a chance to take hold. It's a process- not a "snap your fingers" proposition. Every team that's become an "overnight sensation" did so because groundwork was laid. Phil's still a-laiyin'.
Savage ain't got no halo over his head, as far as I'm concerned- he's made choices that have worked out, and choices that have flamed out... but he has been able to construct a core of players who can at least give us a chance... and that's something we haven't had since ... oh, what- 1999? Imagine what this team would look like now, if similar choices had been made in the years leading up to his hire. Chances are that we'd have never been in the dire straights that prompted his hire in the first place!
Building through the draft is exactly the way great teams get made... but most teams have the luxury of being established as the draft gets worked. IMHO, Phil has done about all that a GM can be expected to, and has also "pulled a few rabbits from hats" in the process to accelerate the rebuild. We can split hairs with minutiae about individual players all we want, but this dude has done something that I hadn't seen since we came back:
He's made sensible choices that seem to be based on a plan.
Now look- the fans pay good money to see decent product on the field, so when Phil missteps, it's only right that they should be able to hold his feet to the fire. Having said that, I've at least been able to see the reasoning behind a good 70% of his choices to date. That's at least 40 points better than anything I saw prior to his arrival... that alone is progress.
So we can run off charts and stats about players all we want- but it looks like the comings and goings that Phil has orchestrated are at least aimed in a particular direction. I basically like where we're aimed, truth be told.
It may not be happening as quickly as most Dawgs would like (including me), but it is happening.
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The thing that pisses me off the most about all of this is ... <Start Rant Now>...
To look at a team like San Fran. I have this interest in them because I have a good friend who follows them like I follow the Browns. And it's been kind of like a race to see who gets good first.
Two years ago, they were a 4 win team, we were a 6 win team. They had a terrible OL, a rookie qb who was a 'maybe' pick (as opposed to a slam dunk), a terrible defense, and a rookie head coach. They also had a laughing stock of an owner, Dr. York, who was accused of not knowing enough about football and not caring.
They were in worse shape than we were 2 years ago.
Fast forward two years...they are media darlings, they have an 'average at best qb' in which the verdict is still out on, a terrible receiving corps, and a defense where they replaced more than half of their starters from just last year. They run a 3-4 just like we do with a terrible NT. They are starting a rookie RT and a LT who is a much better run blocker than pass protector and probably falls into the bottom half of all LTs in the league overall.
They go out and win their first game.
So what the hell gives?
I'm tired of giving everyone associated with the Browns a free pass, and I'm tired of everything associated with the Browns turning to crap. And mostly, I'm sick and tired of the 'we need time' excuse.
WHY don't other teams need time? Seriously, we are a laughing stock.
So is it coaching? Is it the GM? Is it that San Fran has a stud RB? And if so, why didn't we draft Gore? Is it that San Fran plays in an inferior division? If so, let's see what they do against the Steelers and Bengals and Ravens this year. I betcha they give them hell. Guarantee it will be way closer than the when we play them.
What the hell is it? Seriously, what does it take for us to just be competitive. Why can't we at least field a competitive team?
I'm just so tired of the excuses. And most of all, I'm tired of the 'we need time' excuse. Nobody else in the NFL does, just us.
Wonderful.
<End Rant>
I feel much better now that I got that off my chest.
Face it folks, to use a term from my cousin last weekend, 'we are snakebitten'.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quote:
It may not be happening as quickly as most Dawgs would like (including me), but it is happening.
Progress? What progress? Last week we couldn't stop the run or the pass. We couldn't run or pass. Our ST looked terrible.
How is that progress?
We used to win a divisional game or two or three......... We've now lost at LEAST NINE divisional games in a row 
I'd like to believe all our FA adds and rookies Phil has brought in here have made the team better but when you get worse at offense, worse at defense, and worse at ST you can't call it progress.
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I agree....there are some failures.
What I will say is this....at least we look like we won't keep guys around...which is good.
Too many teams insist on keeping drafted players rather than cut them loose.
I don't see any big difference between seeing a player not on the roster and seeing guys still on the roster who suck.
When you put it into that context, I don't know if Phils drafts are that far off most other teams.
I think if you can average 2 good players from every daft, you have done a good job.
And looking at the numbers, Savage is pretty much there..
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Rishuz... the 49ers don't have to play against the leagues BEST defenses... Thats a HUGE difference!!! Steelers, Ravens, and the Bengals have an incredible offense.
thats why we need more time..
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No, that's the excuse as to why we need more time. Do you really believe that if we somehow were in the NFC West we'd have won our first game with the effort we put out last week? Sorry, I don't.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,074 |
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As long as you don't begin to expect it on a regular basis...........
well it took you till the ninth month of the season, but you finally fulfilled your quota...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,074 |
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Believe it or not I think we're almost on the same side of this arguement I'm not trying to second guess the DQ deal. In fact, I'm generally satisfied/happy with it because DQ has looked so good.
I felt that we overpaid as DQ was an unknown at the time; but again, he's looked very good.
No, we aren't on the same side of this argument. What caused me to respond to you in the first place is because you said that Trading Faine for DQ made that draft go from outstanding to just good and nothing I can think of could be further from the truth than that.
FIrst, we didn't trade Faine for DQ,, we traded Faine for a Draft Pick which was later used to get DQ.. Semantics perhaps, but it's accurate.
Second, I highly doubt we would have traded Faine at all unless we were able to upgrade big time,, and we were.. it just hasn't shown up due to an injury to Bentley..
Third, Quote:
In fact, I'm generally satisfied/happy with it because DQ has looked so good.
THen how does that make the draft go from Outstanding to Good..
See my point. You can't slam savage for something that you yourself find to be good... I'm confused a little.... but your confused a lot if you think I'm buying that one
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,800
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,800 |
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,074 |
Fletch Lives
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,727
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,727 |
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So is it coaching? Is it the GM?
Well,from what you've described,it sounds as if you feel we have equal or better overall talent than thay do. So you tell me.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,122 |
Gift.... Dude, breathe into a paper bag for 5 minutes... ...it's been one game 
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024 |
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So is it coaching? Is it the GM?
Well,from what you've described,it sounds as if you feel we have equal or better overall talent than thay do. So you tell me.
Which is why I've been so anti-RAC since last year. And I still am.
For the most part I think it's the coach. But I'm starting to wonder about Savage too.
And it's not so much for what Savage has done, but moreso I'm beginning to wonder about the things he hasn't done.
We could have drafted Frank Gore. I know there were questions about his injuries, but San Fran look like geniuses now. I thought that's what Savage was supposed to be. And they took him in the 3rd round of the same draft we took Pool in the second. Ouch.
How much better would this team be with a safety tandem of Jones/Russell and Gore the RB?
I don't know...it's just very disheartening to me to see teams that were on the same track that we were seem like they are light years ahead of us. Throw Green Bay in that mix as well.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
"Two years ago, they were a 4 win team, we were a 6 win team. They had a terrible OL, a rookie qb who was a 'maybe' pick (as opposed to a slam dunk), a terrible defense, and a rookie head coach."
They stunk but they still had a solid foundation of players on the team.
We were still stuck in utter failure since expansion and never climbed out of it.
05 n 06 put us in a position to start building with some form of a foundation. Something that was non-existing from 99-04. Also look at their schedule.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024 |
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They stunk but they still had a solid foundation of players on the team.
That's not true tab. They were in as in as bad of shape if not worse than us. Erickson ran that team into the ground much the way Butch did here. York, the owner, was considered a buffoon.
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Also look at their schedule.
This is more of a reason than anything else. But that can explain the difference between wins and losses, not effort.
They also have Gore...it's amazing what an elite running back can do.
To think, we could have had him too.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,074
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,074 |
Apples and oranges Rish,,,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 327
1st String
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1st String
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 327 |
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How many guys in any round are still here from the Butch Davis era or even still in the league?
Quite a few:
4 97 Anthony Henry DB South Florida
5 141 Andra Davis LB Florida
4 122 Darnell Sanders TE Ohio State
4 111 Ben Taylor LB Virginia Tech
4 101 Kevin Bentley LB Northwestern
6 195 Antonio Garay DE Boston College
5 152 Michael Lehan DB Minnesota
5 142 Ryan Pontbriand C Rice
7 208 Adimchinobe Echemandu RB California
5 161 Amon Gordon DE Stanford
4 106 Luke McCown QB Louisiana Tech
Now name some first day people
This truth even makes brownie laugh
Ruining QB's since 1999.
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