DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Offensive Scheme

I want to thank folks for trying to stay on topic. This thread is five pages long and only one poster has tried to derail it w/personality comments. That's pretty impressive.

So, thanks guys for keeping this thread about football.

I have watched the 49ers play twice this season and I love their offense. They lead the NFL in rushing attemps with 38 a game while using multiple backs and a fullback.
Lots of play action passing as well.
Garopalo has committed his share of turnovers but they are still 3-0.
I really like the way Shanahan calls a game with each play setting up the next play. If you can't stop the run he will run it 50 times.
You can say they haven't played anyone yet but it's still the NFL and they are 3-0.

I did not like the Kyle Shannahan hire when we first announced it, but I quickly changed my tune after I watched this guy's route trees and play calling. I remember a lot of posters making fun of me because I mentioned the route tree so many times.

I think Shanny is the best offensive mind in professional football and a lot of people who are in the league feel the same way.

And to think............Farmer and crew were trying to tell him which plays to run.

I’ve said this many times, but I love Kyle Shanahan as a play caller .. he made us look GOOD for a stretch with Homer. He has great zone blocking schemes and can really use misdirection

Oops, Hoyer I meant sorry

I love watching a team use misdirection flawlessly...it's a sight to behold.

Name one running back in history that won a rushing title running exclusively out of the gun? The back has to stand there and wait for the ball. Yeah, you might get a couple good runs out of it. You might even get a couple of good games running the ball exclusively out of the gun. What you won't do is get a consistent running game out of the gun every single play. You will also get a defense pinning their ears back on EVERY play when you NEVER put your QB under center. I'm not saying scrap the gun but trying to play every single play out of the gun effectively tells the D you are GOING to pass the ball and they can come after you. If you do hand the ball off once in a blue moon you can get the RB on the way to the QB. He will be standing there anyway, waiting for the ball. It also ends any thought of the play-action. Baker is going to get killed like this. He won't survive the season playing out of the gun every stinking play. The air-raid is a college system. It won't work in the NFL and it DAMNED sure won't work in OUR division. In this division, you BETTER be able to run the damn football or your QB is going to get destroyed.

He also ran the ball. Always. He never abandoned the run. We could be down by 20 and he was still running the football. That way, the D very rarely knows what you are going to do. Of course, 3rd and long or 4th and long was a passing down, but in general, he never gave up on running the ball. Unfortunately, this offense has given up on even trying to run the ball before the game starts.

We don't run enough for a RB to win a rushing title.

Cook is running away (ahem) with that thus far. He is on a very run heavy Vikings team. (only behind the Ravens, and a good part of that is Jackson)

i agree ... even the Rams, while I hated it, had a few great plays against us in this regard

Last year Todd Haley made our running game work after more that 9 years and most of the posters hated him...

They were calling for more Baker, more shotgun, more QB movement...

Well, now we have it in Kitchen's O, and people are criticizing....

I personally hate this type of Hue Jackson Offense...which is honestly what it resembles now.

Yes , the offense right now looks pretty similar to what it looked like last year the weeks leading up to Hue’s departure ... if we remember, Baker was regressing, the offense was too slow developing and our OL was struggling. Same stuff as now

I don't think Baker is regressing, we are just asking too much from the kid.

Play to his strengths, and give him a running game, and I'm sure he will excel.

I think so as well. He looked good on the last drive.

When we get it out in 2.5 he looks great. Longer than that, we just don't have the tackles to hold up on plays designed for a more vertical game.

We miss Zeitler. When we can stone wall in front of Baker, he has room to step up. When not and he has to flush out, you know that tackle is going to be beat to the outside.

I don't know why you keep saying this, but we did not run Hue's offense last year. It was Haley's. Hue and Haley ran different offenses.

Yep, last year our offense was base on the high power offense that Pittsburgh had been doing for years with the killer B's.

This year, Freddie decided to install his offense and we have been watching that.

I bet he starts to go back to the old offense that we used last year. It worked much better than what we have today.

This has been discussed, that most believe its Monkens offense. Freddie ran an adjusted Haley offense last year. ITs been noted he worked with the players to adjust what they liked and didn't like out of the offense and they went with it.

This year, if you watch ANY football from Tampa last year, you can see it is the exact same type offense Monken ran down there.

Freddie is calling the plays in Monkens game plan.

I believe (and some others) believe that he needs to change this, and fast.

I don't know if this is a big deal or not, but I wonder if this is Freddie's offense? Or, is it the type of offense he always wanted to run? Or, is it Monken's offense and Freddie is just calling the plays that are in that offense?

I can't help but think back to earlier this summer when Silver reported that there was friction between Freddie and Monken.

I think you have mentioned it before, and I may agree after 3 weeks of the season.

I don't think Freddie has an offense.

Last year he modfified Haley's O to what the players like and worked.

THis year its completely different and looks JUST LIKE Tampas O from last year, and Baker looks a lot like [ahem] Winston so far.

FYI, I am trying to cross the tracks with you lately - and keep the bickering between us in the past.

I may disagree or argue, but I am done the other stuff. Its Browns football season - we all need to come together. That was offseason stuff

Yeah, I think I agree. I really don't know the answer and I was wondering. Posters have said that this is Freddie's offense. Others have said it was Monken's. I just don't know.

Cool. Sounds great to me.

jc

since this is indeed monken's offense, i think its safe to say he should probably be the one calling plays.

I think it is a huge deal. Good questions you have, and the answers are extremely important for this team to figure out.

This is all speculation, but I have a feeling that last year was a modification of Haley's playbook, to ease the transition. And what we are seeing now is Freddie's offense. Nothing to back that up.

Whatever it is, it is not ideal. We see some things that work, but we seem quick to move away from that. Is it trying to be clever? Is it trying to out think the other side? Is it stubbornness, wanting to stick to his plan because it is his plan and he is convinced it will work?

LOL. I did not mean to channel Yoda.

Possibly, but I didn't like his play calling in Tampa. He would run even less if you go by what he did down there.

I think Freddie started to input more of his style last week against the rams (More quick reads, RPO style plays) and those were working. I think you will see more of that trend going forward.

If that's the case, and I am right (I am speculating btw), but I would have to question why Monken is even here then.

I didn't like the Monken hire from the get-go.

I never said it was Hue’s offense, I said it looks similar to the offense looked weeks before Hue was fired.

i dont like the guy either.

but if this is the style we're running, then let the guy who designed the damn thing to run the plays.

i wish we would've just kept the same offense from last year, and we wouldnt even be having this convo. but alas, it is not so.

Agreed. IDK why we didn't. WE hired Freddie based on his Offense last year and what we did. WTH would we change that. That is why I am now question John and Freddie.

We have coaches who are putting their philosophies before the team. Look at the Rams. They did not ask Goff to do one single complicated thing. Hell, half the plays they cut the field in half.

Until the coaches put the team before their own needs nothing is likely to change. We are going against a world class coaching staff this week who put the team before their own desires. I don't expect much to change unfortunately.

to you and Rish:

i think it might be safe to say that even Dorsey became a prisoner of the moment with the FK hire.

the hype seem to affect the entire organization from the top down.

Its well established that we started running Haley offense and then Hue changed it to the absolute garbage it was at some time before he was fired.

Then we got back with Kitchens running, IMHO, a tweaked "Haley" offense.

To me it was clear what was Haley goal in offense, and I agree with him, specially in a team with so low success in the past.

Keep it simple,don't try to overcome the D failures, don't make D have to overcome your failures. Establish the running game, and if you have a shot and a close game, open it up in the 4th quarter.

Don't rely in a rookie or expect your QB to be Aaron Rodgers and bail you out.

Making the running game work was a massive improvement, IMHO.

Freddie did that w/Baker last year. It's not an uncommon thing for the playcaller to do that w/young qbs. It actually makes some sense, especially for guys who were not asked to go through a lot of progressions in college.

It's not "well established." In fact, it is false. Will you please just give it a rest?

And that's what I was expecting from the Rams game, honestly. Why did he decided to continue I don't understand.

Lets see this next game, maybe by now everyone in the team is convinced that we should scale back, simplify, improve executions and them move from that.

IIRC, we started the year with Haley offense, and when things were not going good, Hue said "ill step in, I am the HC and have that right" or something to that nature I am paraphrasing.

There really is no way to confirm that Hue took over and we started running his O.

I despise hue, many know that. But its not a fact he took over, he said he wanted too, said he could as the HC (and that's what started I feel a lot of the discourse), but its not proven he did.

Make up your mind, in a post you say you say we were not running Hue offense but Haley's, and when I say that, you say its false?

The well established part was regarding the start of the season.

Although its also general knowledge that Hue started messing with Haley's O.

And many think that after Hue left we continued with a tweaked Haley offense...

Don't think I said anything false or even questionable. Ok I'll give you that calling the O before Hue's firing garbage,can be questionable for some people.

Please read this and then will you please drop it so we can keep this thread on topic? Thanks.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...wns-playcalling

I agree, and I expected to see it in the Rams game which is why I was so optimistic about the game. Seeing them unable or unwilling to adjust was very frustrating. It does not give me hope as the season moves along.

Really wish Baltimore would have fired Harbaugh. I would have personally went and picked him up and drove him to Cleveland.