DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Freddie Kitchens..what was a crowning achievement before this year?

No.

Yes. Dorsey built this team to win now. Not wait 3 years while the rookie HC learns if he has any coaching skills.

If we dont end the season strongly, I feel they will let him go.

I hope you are right. I think you are right, but who knows, anymore.

I truly love the internet and how we can access so much information so quickly. I love the interaction, but man, there is a negative aspect to it because so many people who don't have a clue read some tweets and blurbs and act like they are experts on a topic.

I am not an expert, but firing Freddie would be beyond ignorant. And remember, I was a guy who was said to "hate Freddie" before the season started. LOL

Especially with wannabe athlete message board jockies.

Should have kept GW.
No one thought it was cool.

GW is a major problem waiting to happen... you saw how the Jets D played, targeting our players.


Don't think GW has a place in this league and soon it will catch him too.

While I wanted an experienced coach, I understand why GW wasn’t hired as HC (and won’t be hired by anyone to be their HC)

Should have kept GW. I don’t care about bounty gate or any of that other stuff. The guy brought discipline and results by winning. He gave the Browns an identity and that identity was beating the **** out of their opponents. I said it then and I’ll say it now, we made a huge mistake not keeping Williams.

Williams would have kept Zampese, Wylie, and Kitchens(if he wanted to stay) we would be a much better coached team this year with Williams at the helm.

His bluster may wear off quickly. But the W-L record after he took over last year does not.

What's done is done ... I wanted GW as HC, but happy to let Freddie take a few lumps and learn and improve. Let's see how he does when we get to the "easy" part of the schedule and let's see how the Ravens and others do when they face the tough part of their schedule. Winning the AFC North is still very much on the cards.

With that said - I didn't see ANY bluster from GW once he was named interim HC. He was calculated, measured and prepared. His W/L record spoke for itself. The teams discipline and preparation for games was far ahead of what we have seen this year .... can you let me know if you saw any bluster and outbursts from GW as acting HC?

All I can say is look at the penalties from the last half of last season to the first half of this season. That speaks volumes. The discipline that was here the last half of last season has disappeared. I'm certainly not saying he would make a great HC. That really wasn't the point I was trying to make. The point I'm making is he certainly brought something to the table that we don't have now.

If you want discipline, a reduction in penalties, hold players accountable for their mistakes, take real advantage of a good RB like Nick Chubb and later Kareem Hunt to open up the passing game then look no further. Time to bring back ERIC MANGINI!!!!

Yeah, last year looked great compared to how we're playing now with even more talent. And the penalties mean nothing, right?

GW’s overrated as a DC ... he’s a one trick pony ..

I’m shocked Pit thinks ... actually stunned that he thinks GW Not being here is the reason were a penalty machine ...

There’s plenty to beef about with my boy Freddie but i’m not sure what more he could have done about the penalties ... he punished them every time they committed one in TC ... short of benching MG every time he goes offsides i wonder what the menZas think he could have or should be doing ...

Freddie’s given the dolts plenty to gripe about ... just not sure why the lack of discipline from this group falls on him ...

I want to preface this by making a comment that it's hard for some of us old-timers like you, Pit, bone, myself, etc to talk anymore because there are so many posters who always make this about sides. I am not even going to post on the Baker thread again because as much as I tried to keep it about football, there were posters [and one in particular] who were focused on making things personal. Congrats to the winners.

With that said as a backdrop, please take this the right way. I am not calling for Freddie's head. I am not saying the book is out on him. I am not saying he can't get better.

What I am saying is that the team committed too many penalties under Hue. They didn't commit many under GW. They are committing too many under Freddie. He talked a lot, but I'm not sure I bought all of it.

That does not mean that I think we should have kept GW as our HC. It doesn't mean I want to get rid of Freddie. But, thus far, the team isn't playing like a team and is undisciplined. Far too much talking from certain folks, including Freddie. And the guy who leaked info to the network last week about who was to blame for the team's troubles should be GONE! I can't believe no one has talked about it. I have brought it up twice and not one person has commented. How the hell do you blame Robinson for the main reason the team is losing? Bro, that is some pure BS!

Right now, and this is just my opinion, but I think the three biggest reasons for our poor start are Baker, Freddie, and team chemistry. Ironically, those were my three keys to the season.

With that said, perhaps they get things worked out during the break and Baker plays better, Freddie coaches better, and the team plays as a team rather a group of individuals.

I hope that did not come across as confrontational. I am just trying to talk the way we used to.

You are exactly where I am on this. There is no way that I would call for Freddie to be gone at this early stage of things. Simply no way.

But for those who wish to pretend otherwise, you pointed out a fact they can't deny. They can dance around it, make snide comments and pretend the circumstances are different. But they're not.

Under Hue the penalties were bad. Under Freddie the penalties have been bad. Under GW that wasn't an issue. I guess some would love to pretend that is just some strange coincidence. But that is just foolish.

WE have to stick with Freddie at this point of the season. First off if we fired him it looks bad for any potential coaching candidate. It would be the 2nd year in a row that we fired our HC in mid season; not a good look. Secondly, it would be Bakers 4th coach in 2 seasons. Not good for a QB that is still developing. Lastly, who would you get right now that's any good? Who's out there Rex Ryan? Ridiculous. I think we should stay with FK for the rest of the season to see if things can be straightened out. If the bottom falls out we reevaluate everything then. JMO

So you are agreeing with me?

Yes I am.

Nice football take ... you must be referring to yourself when you got personal and referenced me in your post and then claimed I said something I unequivocally did not. The you run away and come here and state this B.S. .... If you want to pretend to take the high road - then don't try to make these passive aggressive, sly swipes at other posters and stop telling everyone what to post. Calling out for your friends to support you, which is what you are doing here, is weak.

As for Freddie - I have not seen anyone say he needs to go other than Eve in the post game thread and I don't know that she was serious just venting. I think the vast majority of posters are on the same page with both Freddie and Baker: Freddie is a rookie HC and needs time, he's taken a huge jump in his responsibility and needs time. We've been inconsistent, but we've also seen flashes (like going up 20-6 vs a very very good Seahawks team.)... Likewise the vast majority of posters see Baker struggling with multiple issues and think he needs to improve while also recognizing there are a lot of other factors negatively impacting his performance. I think any rhetoric suggesting there is a ground swell of posters calling to fire Freddie, or that people blame all of Baker's struggles on everything except Baker is manufactured controversy.

I haven't responded to your personal attacks in ages and this will be my last post to you. I am just letting you know that I will report you each and every time you resort to outright lies and personal attacks that are directed my way. You are making up lies in your latest post and you lied in the Baker thread.

Not the hero we deserve, but the hero we need.

Interesting - I can point to the fact that you stated: "posters like 888 are always saying "you hate Baker," as if that is a viable argument to defend Baker's performance." .... which is a total lie and I responded to that.

1. Show me a personal attack that wasn't a direct response to your antagonistic post.
2. Show me a lie.

Oh ... that's right. You can't. Funny - here we are again, and you are allegedly a victim, you are policing the board and telling everyone what their posts mean and what they do and don't post about, what they should and should not post about and getting personal .... and there common denominator is yet again just one single poster.

So, does anyone want to talk about the discipline issue? Or, the leak to Fox Sports about how Gregg Robinson was our number one problem? Or, the three main reasons why we are not performing as well as expected? Or, is the PFF all about personalities?

If you would stop making it about personalities, then it will stop being about personalities.

I was hoping Kitchens would get fired during the bye. Oh well, may have to wait until the season is over.

I agree.

Hey, I haven't lost a game yet.

Really? Every thread?

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

How are we feeling?

Says the guy who in another thread that I just got done reading made a snide remark about Eve.

He does not see his double standards. At all. Ever.

Freddie is in over his head in a major way and needs to shore up being able to manage a football game in it's entirety if he ever wants to be a true HC. His play-calling has been atrocious as well, tbh. Give up the play-calling and focus on the overall game.

#FreeToddMonken

He sees it.

j/c

‘I don’t coach penalties; we beat ourselves’ Freddie Kitchens


With comments like that... it won't be long now before the team turns on him.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/10...-ourselves.html

from the article:

Kitchens actually did coach one penalty in this game, the fifth false start of the day on fourth and 1 at the end of the game so he didn’t have to use a timeout. The Browns trailed 27-10 with 2:37 left at the time, and ended up kicking a field goal to produce the final margin.

“I didn’t want to use the timeout and I wanted to go for it,’’ he said. “We had half of our guys running off, half of our guys running on and I wasn’t giving up right then by punting the ball to them.




actual article:

By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com
FOXBOROUGH, Mass. — Freddie Kitchens didn’t blame himself for his team’s 13 penalties for 85 yards in Sunday’s 27-13 loss to the Patriots.

“I don’t coach penalties,’’ Kitchens said. “I’m not answering questions about penalties. I’ve never once, in 20 years of coaching, coached somebody to take a penalty. Except in a situation, where it would help you clock-wise, clock management-wise. So, I don’t know, I don’t know.’’


Kitchens actually did coach one penalty in this game, the fifth false start of the day on fourth and 1 at the end of the game so he didn’t have to use a timeout. The Browns trailed 27-10 with 2:37 left at the time, and ended up kicking a field goal to produce the final margin.

“I didn’t want to use the timeout and I wanted to go for it,’’ he said. “We had half of our guys running off, half of our guys running on and I wasn’t giving up right then by punting the ball to them. The only chance that we had was to convert for a [first] down and then we didn’t. The defense’s job is to go out there and stop them and they did, so it gave us a chance. I was still trying to win the game.’’

Beckham wanted more chances to try to beat the Patriots

Three of the other false starts were committed by tight ends or receivers, which should never happen unless a team’s communication system is faulty. Baker Mayfield took it upon himself to get those cleaned up, and he better do so in a hurry, because the Browns are on the road again next week in Denver.


“I’m going to continue to practice different cadences throughout the week until we grind that out, and then come Sunday, we'll be completely focused each and every snap to do that one job,’’ he said. “Nowhere else besides doing your job and knowing exactly what we have to do. That's how you get it fixed.’’

The Browns lead the NFL with 70 accepted penalties, and they’re the first team to have 13 or more penalties in two games this season, including 18 in the opening-day 43-13 rout by the Titans. They’ve also been flagged a league-leading 88 times with 16 declined and two offsetting.

“It's just the consistency and a lack of discipline and accountability right now on Sunday seems to be the problem,’’ said Mayfield. “I've said we can be a great team when we do our job, but we just haven't translated it yet.’’

Kitchens pinned the loss entirely on the three turnovers — on three straight snaps in the first quarter — and the penalties. The turnovers came on two rare Nick Chubb fumbles and a Baker Mayfield interception on a two-handed shovel pass to Jarvis Landry. They put them in a 17-0 holed that was too much over come, although they came close, closing that gap to 17-10 in the third quarter.


“Tough night guys, everything we said we couldn’t do and win the game, we did,’’ Kitchens said. So, and it all happened in the first quarter. I was proud of the way they kept fighting. Somewhat got back into the game there at the end, but just couldn’t get back fully into it. Can’t turn the ball over and can’t commit penalties. We ran the ball well, we did exactly what we wanted to do in the run game.

“That was the game plan, we did it. We held them, we stopped them. I thought our defense played well enough to win. Offensively, we just can’t turn the ball over. And that was the game.’’

Mayfield cites ‘lack of discipline’ but vows to lead better to turn it around

Kitchens wouldn’t acknowledge that it was particularly disappointing that the sloppy game — played in a driving rain — came after the bye, when the Browns had resolved to clean up the mistakes.


“No, it’s disappointing anytime it happens,’’ he said. “Because you know going in that, we can’t continue to jump offsides, we can’t continue to do the things that get you beat. It’s very evident, that that’s what is getting us beat. It’s turnovers and penalties. That’s it, turnovers and penalties.’’

Kitchens has a hard time being frustrated with Chubb, who’s been the heart and soul of the team. After going 21 games at the start of his pro career without a fumble, he’s now coughed it up three times in the last two games, including once in the loss to the Seahawks. In New England, Joel Bitonio kick the ball out of his hands once and Jonathan Jones tomahawked it out at the 4 other when he was going in to score and try to close the gap to 10-7.

“It’s very out of character,’’ said Kitchens. “It means more to him than anything. You know, Nick had a good night. He holds onto the ball, he knows that. I’m not killing Nick Chubb about it, because Nick Chubb is going to be there in the end.’’

Chubb responded with 131 yards on 20 carries, but the Patriots are almost perfect when they win the turnover battle, which they did 3-0.


Chubb rebounds after two fumbles

“It’s not shocking, that’s how people usually win,’’ Kitchens said. “They don’t turn the ball over and they don’t (commit) penalties. You can’t have that big of a discrepancy in penalties and 92-2 now [when they win the turnover battle. We expect more out of ourselves; we’re just not getting that right now and that needs to change. Everybody in the locker room understands what needs to change.’’

Despite the trifecta of turnovers against the No. 1 takeaway team in the NFL, the Browns close the gap to 17-10 in the third quarter.

“We had enough resiliency to kind of weather the storm and get back into the game,’’ he said. “We just weren’t able to finish it.’’

Tom Brady responded to the scare by finding James White on short screen pass while backed up at his own 16 on third down. White rumbled 59 yards up the left side, with safety Juston Burris closing to make the TD-saving tackle. But Brady eluded Myles Garrett, escaped to his right and hit Julian Edelman with a 14-yard TD pass that made it 24-10 with 6:11 left in the third.


“That’s bad,’’ he said. “It’s not good. We’ve got to get off the field there. And I think everyone on defense would say that.’’

The margin of victory would’ve been a lot worse, but Denzel Ward blocked a field goal and the defense held New England to 2-of-6 in the red zone.

“We had a lot of confidence going into this game and we got a lot of confidence coming out of this game,’’ Kitchens said. “Because we understand why we lost the game. We lost the game because we turned the ball over and penalties. We need to stop committing penalties. Alright? We need to focus and concentrate on enough on staying on sides, so we don’t end up in first-and-20. Alright? That’s how you win games. And then, take care of the football.’’

The Browns fell to three games behind the 5-2 Ravens and a half-game behind the 2-4 Steelers, who play the Dolphins on Monday Night Football. It seems dire right now, but their schedule gets easier down the stretch while the Ravens play a bunch of winning teams.

“Everything’s in front of us,’’ Kitchens said. “So win the games that we’re supposed to win and we’ll be fine. It starts in Denver, that’s who we play next, so let’s have a good practice Wednesday and see where we’re at, at the end of the week. It’s as simple as that. Just do that, win one game and see what happens. There’s nine games left.’’

When someone says "I don't coach penalties", does anyone actually know what that means?