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Ugh... and there it is. I was thinking that as well, with the hot start that San Fran has had this year. I didn't want to put it to paper (err... keyboard). We had him here.

I don't know if Baker struggles against zone coverages. I think that most folks [not on this board] are saying that he is becoming confused by teams changing their coverages from the pre-snap look to the actual coverage post-snap.

Some are saying he is a "one-read" qb and he is struggling to go through his progressions quickly enough.

There have been open receivers, but Baker is either bypassing them looking for the big play or not seeing them due to his confusion.

Hopefully it clicks. Either that or change the scheme back to the personnel packages from last year and ask Baker to read half the field again.

I haven't seen any breakdowns on the WRs being confused, so I don't know if they are or not. I don't think they are because both OBJ and Landry are quality WRs who have had a ton of success w/other teams and other qbs. They have beat zone coverages over and over and over in the past.

I haven't posted all the articles and breakdowns about what's ailing the Browns, but there are a ton out there. Almost agree that the troubles thus far are w/the coach and qb.

It's early, so hopefully they can get this figured out.

My favorite time of year...

...the searching for answers.

Nice. I'm going to borrow that and use it someday, without giving you credit. Hope you don't mind.

J/c

It's been mentioned that Baker struggles against zone coverage. This appears to be true on the surface. Are our receivers struggling as well against it, though, complicating the problem?

We miss a reliable TE to sit down in holes in zones in the middle of the field. We miss Higgins who can somewhat do the same thing.

Ratley came to us a rather raw receiver. He missed a lot of time during camp. Is he seeing things the same way as Baker? Is he settling in the right spots and making good decisions during scramble drills?

Are teams tilting coverages to take OBJ away? Is he coming back to Baker when the initial play isn't there?

Landry for all his savvy and ability to shake a man doesn't really threaten zones with speed.

We're not using much play action to suck up LBs and open up the middle of the field behind him.

While Baker Is struggling, he hasn't gotten much help.

What I think is missing here is that the QB, RB and WR's run the plays that are called. You can use both slot WR's and RB's to run in those soft spots in the zone. Yes, we have had TE's do it in the past and teams do have TE's do that job as well, but there are other ways of doing it.

And on the surface it may seem like Baker isn't getting much help, but there are open WR's that he's simply either not seeing or deciding to go with the big play instead. I'm not sure which one it is. It could very well be that the play that's being called requires the WR running the long route is hid first read. And by the time he looks off of that WR the zone coverage is confusing him. That's anybodies guess at this point.

Hopefully, when Higgins comes back some of this will be resolved. It seems he's to some degree Baker's security blanket. Someone Baker trusts and looks for when things break down.

It isn't confusion on the part of the WR's. They run the plays and routes that are called. It's up to the coaching staff to call the plays and routes to exploit the zone. As Vers mentioned, both Landry and OBJ have played against the zone throughout their careers. This is nothing new to them.

Do you have any thoughts on the play clock side? Are the added responsibilities throwing off Freddie's playcalling Feng Shui?

I guess we are just going to have to disagree on the QB/WR thing. That's fine. I will respond to the following, though:



I noticed the play clock being an issue in game 2, but was it in the other two games? I don't remember anything significant, but I could be wrong. I don't think having extra responsibilities are affecting Freddie's play calling, but I could be wrong about that, too.

For me, this seems fairly simple. The new personnel packages are a problem for a qb who is having trouble reading coverages.

Many NFL teams run a zone scheme. Some mix it up between man and zone coverage. It's nothing new to either OBJ or Landry. Actually even our younger WR's have seen it in games.

Now there's a difference between a zone being simple and players being familiar with it. Point being, trying to say that our WR's do not know how to react to zone coverage isn't a legitimate argument. Now the QB having a problem reading zone coverage might be. I've seen a lot of times where opposing D's have shown man and at the last second ran zone. That seems to be the problem.

And I'll tell you why. If we didn't have WR's getting open, I would be far more willing to look at your theory. But that's not what's happening. What's happening is we are having WR's getting open and Baker can't seem to see them.

That's not a WR issue.

Are you really going to put the blame on our WRs not being in the correct places? Seriously?

Now there's a difference between a zone being simple and players being familiar with it. Point being, trying to say that our WR's do not know how to react to zone coverage isn't a legitimate argument. Now the QB having a problem reading zone coverage might be. I've seen a lot of times where opposing D's have shown man and at the last second ran zone. That seems to be the problem.

Are you really going to put the blame on our WRs not being in the correct places? Seriously?

I did not put all the blame on Baker. I am saying that I don't think the WRs are part of the problem. Whatever, this is an argument I can't win, though. The crowd will probably soon be here to get on me about hating Baker.

Baker Mayfield Is Holding Onto the Ball and Holding Cleveland Browns Offense Back

By
Sam Penix -
September 27, 2019


The Cleveland Browns currently sit at 1-2 ahead of a key divisional matchup against the Baltimore Ravens this weekend. It isn’t time to panic yet, but the offense has struggled mightily thus far. There are multiple reasons for this, but the main one is quarterback Baker Mayfield, who needs to play much better if Cleveland wants to enter the playoff race.

Cleveland Browns Offense Held Back by Baker Mayfield, Who is Holding Onto the Ball for Too Long

The Browns offense has scored just 49 points in three games despite being one of the most talented units in the NFL. The group hasn’t gotten into a rhythm or found its identity yet. Starting tight end David Njoku is on injured reserve, offensive linemen have been ejected, injured, and switched positions, and receiver Rashard Higgins hasn’t played since early in Week 1. The situational playcalling is subpar. But none of these reasons are good excuses for Mayfield’s underwhelming play; he’s thrown three touchdowns to five interceptions thus far, and his issues go beyond the box score.

Many are blaming Cleveland’s offensive line for not giving Mayfield enough time to survey the defense. This is happening, but it isn’t the line’s fault. According to ESPN Analytics, the Browns rank first in the NFL in pass block win rate at 66%. A pass block win is defined as when the offensive lineman holds his block for at least 2.5 seconds. Dating back to his rookie season, Mayfield has been excellent when throwing the ball in under 2.5 seconds. When he holds onto it for longer, he takes unnecessary sacks, hits, and forces the ball into tight coverage.

Quick-Release Passing

At one point in last week’s game against Los Angeles, Mayfield was 13/15 on passes under 2.5 seconds and 3/21 otherwise. There are two takeaways from this; the first is that Kitchens must do a better job of scheming quick passes for Mayfield. The second is that the Browns have a problem. If Mayfield isn’t able to sit in the pocket and read defenses, he won’t be a starter for very long. Nearly every positive play Mayfield has made this year has come on his first read, and that’s concerning. We’ve seen Mayfield progress to his second, third, and fourth read and make plays before, so perhaps he just needs more reps in new offensive coordinator Todd Monken’s system.

But it’s more than just Mayfield not reading defenses well. He’s paranoid about taking hits. He is fading from clean pockets for no reason instead of stepping up and delivering a strong throw. The loss of Kevin Zeitler may have something to do with this, although his replacement, Eric Kush, has been solid, aside from his reps against game-wrecker Aaron Donald.

Per Pro Football Focus, Mayfield’s average time to throw is 2.74 seconds, and his average time to scramble is 2.80 seconds. That time to scramble explains the discrepancy between PFF’s TTT number and NFL Next Gen Stats’, which is 3.03 seconds, third-highest in the NFL.

Whether it’s getting more comfortable in the offense, trusting his lineman more, or something different, Baker Mayfield must get the ball out quicker. As he goes, so does Cleveland’s offense, and they need to start going better, and fast. The Browns had playoff expectations for this season and can’t afford to wait for the offense to click. Mayfield shouldn’t shoulder all of the blame for the team’s scoring issues, but he is responsible for a large portion of them. It’s time for Mayfield to prove that his record-setting rookie season wasn’t a fluke.

https://lastwordonprofootball.com/2019/09/27/baker-mayfield-holding-cleveland-browns-offense/

This is where I agree with OCD that scheme is a factor here as well

I started the thread because I thought there was a problem w/the scheme.

I think his problem with the Oline isn't a lack of time. I think it's that they aren't creating throwing lanes for him on a consistent basis.This could be that height issue rearing its head. He's had a number of balls batted pretty early inn the year so if consistent throwing lanes aren't being opened up I don't blame him for bailing on the pocket. Even that wouldn't be a problem I don't think if he was maintaining good footwork like he did last year. But he's not and it's a mystery to me as to why not.

Versatile Dog is a thinly veiled Baker hater. Check out everyone one of his posts they are regarding either the performance or some imaginary trait of Baker holding us back.

Like the statement that Baker only reads half the field. Completely false, but he says it so much on this board people act like it is actually true. Or the falsehood that guys are streaking down the field wide out open and Baker chooses to hold the ball and not throw to them.

The truth is the play calling which has focused on big downfield plays has failed because:, people can get pressure with 4 men and drop 7 in to coverage, since our oline is poor and we refuse to consistently run the ball. Baker is throwing out of empty sets with no threat of the run to make the defense honest like we have the Cowboys oline. He played an entire game in 2nd and 3rd and 20 because of non-stop penalties. He is playing without his favorite receiver and his tight end. You think its not likely the receivers are making some mistakes too? Give me a break. Is Baker playing great? No, but he is far from the sole reason why the O is struggling. Baker will improve with the rest of the team if the coach calls a smarter more balanced game. I think they will, probably this week.

Setting the rookie TD record and leading the Browns out of the gutter is not an aberration. You can pile on with the rest of hyperbolic media in this tough stretch, but soon the Baker and Browns will be rolling again. But then you'll still be unhappy because it happening with Baker. Sorry VD.

is that you Baker!?!?

I’d imagine the truth lies somewhere in the middle as usual ...