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The talent appears to be progressing fine. To state otherwise is one mans opinion vs anothers
The talent has been progressing since year one. But the wins only got fewer,not better.
JEESH Pit.. you act like this have been a 5 year trend... our first year we won 37.5% of our games, the second year, where everybody pretty much agreed we had a much harder schedule, we won 25% of our games, to date this year, we've won 50% of our games... looks like progress to me.
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Do you actually EXPECT Phil to tell the media that RAC is on a short leash? That RAC's "on the hot seat"? Do you?
Nope, but some player grumblings or some leaked sources out of Berea might help bolster your point... for now, you've got nothing but pure and utter speculation.
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Most on here know that was a Lerner/Collins call. And RAC wasn't Phils first choice.
Where did "most on here" get that information?
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Then break them down and show me where they're wrong.
Great half time adjustments?
Team properly prepared on a weekly basis?
Fight hard and play every down of every game?
Nice Pit.. asking somebody to prove 3 things which are completely SUBJECTIVE.... and by their very nature, UNPROVEABLE...
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How about RAC stating HIMSELF that they're not good enough to come from behind when they get behind early? Good coaching there?
Well let's see.... the next week they came out and posted 27 first half points and didn't get behind.... sounds like good coaching to me..... that is if you're a results oriented person.... but this year isn't about the record, which is what you told me.... neither were the previous two... yet our record seems to show up in all of your posts.... 
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But he's shown NO SIGNS of being a good head coach.
His players seem to love him.... something about him and the direction of this organization led JJ, Bentley, Smith, Baxter, and Steinbach to sign here.... and don't tell me it was all about the money.......
yebat' Putin
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JEESH Pit.. you act like this have been a 5 year trend... our first year we won 37.5% of our games, the second year, where everybody pretty much agreed we had a much harder schedule, we won 25% of our games, to date this year, we've won 50% of our games... looks like progress to me.
Like I said,it's not all about "wins". If you call giving up over 40 points this week and 34 last week as "winning",so be it. I will say we progressed on the O side against Cincy. I see it 0-2 for the D and 1-1 for the O. Now if DA can play like that consistantly to cover the D's ass,we got it made!
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Nope, but some player grumblings or some leaked sources out of Berea might help bolster your point... for now, you've got nothing but pure and utter speculation.
11-23 isn't "specualtion" and the results of what usually happens without a DRASTIC turnaround in such situations isn't speculation either. The players LOVE RAC! But that really hasn't helped things much to this point has it? Why would players grumble about someone they like?
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Nice Pit.. asking somebody to prove 3 things which are completely SUBJECTIVE.... and by their very nature, UNPROVEABLE...
 It's NOT subjective when you're getting your brains kicked in at half time and come back in the second half doing the EXACT SAME THING you did in the first half. As a matter of fact,that has been SO obvious,this is ONE excuse I sure didn't expect to hear!
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Well let's see.... the next week they came out and posted 27 first half points and didn't get behind.... sounds like good coaching to me..... that is if you're a results oriented person....
So now that you've seen this DC,does that mean RAC was FOS when he said they couldn't overcome a 17 point deficit last week after less than one half of play? Does that mean you won't buy that BS line the next time we get behind early and get blown out? Does that ean RAC was wrong and he sold our team short last week? Or that he was blaming a team that CAN score big short due to his own failures?
Please explain why RAC claimed this team was not CAPABLE of coming back from a 17 point deficit after one and a half quarters of play last week,yet scored 27 in one half this week? Policy speak?
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but this year isn't about the record, which is what you told me.... neither were the previous two... yet our record seems to show up in all of your posts....
Going "backwards" isn't all about the record.
And secondly,everyone says that this team "sucked SO bad" when RAC got here. So how the hell did he win six games that year in the first place? And shouldn't we have seen SOME progress last year? Oh that's right,the answer is no. After their second draft and FA signing period we should have looked WORSE on a weekly basis overall.How could I possibly forget?
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His players seem to love him.... something about him and the direction of this organization led JJ, Bentley, Smith, Baxter, and Steinbach to sign here.... and don't tell me it was all about the money.......
I think Phil did the hiring,not RAC. Besides,how has players "liking him" helped our success? And you know what? The players liked Marty too. I don't mind players "liking the coach". But they may as well "like" a winner. I don't see how "his players liking him" has much if anything to do with his coaching abilities. I've always thought and still do think RAC is a nice guy. But what does being a nice guy have to do with "being a good,fundamentaly sound" NFL head coach?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Where are the fire Romeo threads?
They will be back next week 
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Practice Squad
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In case you missed it? Chud came from San Diego while working under Marty.not Norv. So it is the SAME system that was ran "under Marty" in San Diegao. Jeesh kid,semantics are for rookies.
 Get a clue kid. He and Marty worked well together JUST LAST YEAR! Yeah,it has nothing to do with Marty!
First off young man, I ain't your kid, and rookie only states the #of times I post.
So get a clue yourself, I like how some of you guys think if you post alot you know somthing about football, then if you can't win your point you resort to talking down to others with the rookie thing. I doesn't wash with me , and doesn't do anything to prove your point. Marty had nothing to do with that offense other than allowing Norv Turner to install it. Marty isn't an offensive guy. Also, get a clue, Norv was the OC when SD installed the offense.
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The talent has been progressing since year one. But the wins only got fewer,not better.
I thought it wasn't about wins ?
And I guess RAC has done somethings right, or is he not responsible for the talent progressing ?
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You tend to take "PR statements" over common sense. You have every right to do that. But I won't be joining you. Do you actually EXPECT Phil to tell the media that RAC is on a short leash? That RAC's "on the hot seat"? Do you?
No , however when a man repeatdly makes the same statement to the media, I would tend to put stock in it.
If it's just pr, than why say anything at all, why show any support outside on the norm. This is just conjecture on your part.
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Yes,you really do,don't you? You honestly believe that Phil would openly state to the media that RAC IS on the hot seat!
We're back to the "clueless" part again.
No he wouldn't, nor would he go out of his way to try and convince the media that he wasn't on the hot seat. just wishfull thinking on your part.
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Phil didn't hire RAC ?
Now thats a reach.
Not really. Most on here know that was a Lerner/Collins call. And RAC wasn't Phils first choice.
Boy thats a convincing argument, can you name those guys, you know, MOST. LMAO
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You doubt he was Phils first choice ?
Are you guessing ?
Yep. I doubt the hell out of it. From everything I've seen,he would have prefered Kubiac.
Im sure you have a link to that statement, right ?
Or is this , you telling us what Phil thinks ? How hypocritical, tell me I don't know what Phil is thinking, when it's there for you in print. Yet tell me he wanted Kubiac, with nothing to prove that statement. Just more agenda driven twisting on your part.
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Phil doesn't tell the media "the facts". He tells them what he wants them to here,period. If you take what he tells the media as "fact" you're in for a LOT of disapoiintments.
I'll assume Phill let you know this off the record, right ?
I'll bet your good at Twister.
So why doesn't he tell the media that we are going to the SB every year ?
Isn't that what they want to hear ?
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Why would I say I don't "like" RAC? He's a HELLUVA nice guy! But he's shown NO SIGNS of being a good head coach. You're good at making excuses. Now list the qualities YOU'VE SEEN SINCE RAC has been a HEAD COACH that lead you to believe he'll be successfull.
Go ahead. Cut the crap and list them. It shouldn't take long.
I don't have to list my OPINIONS as to what RAC has done right, thats all you are really are doing. Listing your OPINIONS. I don't have the same agenda you have, fire RAC/ hire Marty. I'm willing to wait it out , I feel Savage will make the right decision if and when it needs to be made. After all he knows what he's really thinking doesn't he.
I don't pretend to know more than the guy that holds down the job. 
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Great half time adjustments?
Team properly prepared on a weekly basis?
Fight hard and play every down of every game?
How about RAC stating HIMSELF that they're not good enough to come from behind when they get behind early? Good coaching there?
You go ahead and list all of those "great coaching qualities" you've seen in RAC since he's been here. Because attacking me isn't proving a damned thing accept you basicly don't have anything to show he CAN be a good head coach.
Make your list. I'll be waiting.....................
I really don't plan on making you a list, you have your agenda, you will still be arguing long after Marty goes elsewhere, or probably still be arguing if RAC were to somehow make the playoffs this year, so what would the point be.
If you knew half as much as you thought, you wouldn't be posting, you would be doing it.
By the way, I have been a Browns fan since the very early 60s, so kid, really is a patronizing statement to me.
If you want to argue, argue, but don't pull that crap when someone doesn't agree with you . I takes away from your arguement. JMHO
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Like I said,it's not all about "wins"........................ 11-23 isn't "specualtion"
Ok Pit, you've got to stop... you can't keep telling me that it isn't about wins that it's about progress and consistency ........ and then posting RAC's win-loss record as proof that we aren't getting any better. Sorry, you can't have it both ways.
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I see it 0-2 for the D and 1-1 for the O.
I'm pretty sure Phil, RAC and 50+ players see it as the Browns are 1-1 with things on offense and defense they need to improve on... of course that's just my hunch.
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The players LOVE RAC! But that really hasn't helped things much to this point has it?
How do you know?
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Why would players grumble about someone they like?
Because deep down they still want to play for a guy that gives them the best chance to win.
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So now that you've seen this DC,does that mean RAC was FOS when he said they couldn't overcome a 17 point deficit last week after less than one half of play? Does that mean you won't buy that BS line the next time we get behind early and get blown out? Does that ean RAC was wrong and he sold our team short last week? Or that he was blaming a team that CAN score big short due to his own failures?
No, not really. RAC wasn't wrong. I still don't think we are good enough to overcome a 24 point deficit against a good team like the Steelers or Bengals..
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Please explain why RAC claimed this team was not CAPABLE of coming back from a 17 point deficit after one and a half quarters of play last week,yet scored 27 in one half this week? Policy speak?
The Bengals defense ain't the Steelers defense..... We scored 27, we gave up 21... it's hard to come back from a big deficit that way. I think RAC understands the abilities and the mental state of this team far better than you or I.
yebat' Putin
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23-11 does NOT "equal 1". Jeesh..............
Pit,, you just don't get it do you,,, I'm sorry, but talking to you about this is really a waste of time,,,, You want to count games against him during a time when the talent level was so poor, that NOBODY could have made anything out of it.. But that's not good enough for you,
You want him gone and that's really the bottom line... you don't have good reasons... you just don't want him here....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Another point to throw out there...
After RAC stuck with Mo, that meant Dilfer wanted out. Threatened retirement if he wasn't traded.
Therefore, RAC hitched his wagon to Frye. We all know how that turned out.
Now, before CoachB comes in and blasts me for blaming the QB for last year...Are we a good team with Dilfer under center and a different OC? HEAVENS NO. But are we the bumbling, stumbling mess we were last year with him under center? Do we give up nearly as many sacks and therefore lose first down chances and field position? After watching DA the past couple weeks, I honestly wonder...(for the record, yes I know our line improved this past offseason...but if you saw the first quarter and a half of week one you wouldn't have thunk it!)
Yet again, you show you know nothing about football or how to run a team. Dilfer demanded to get rid of Mo. Even if RAC thought Mo was the biggest idiot to talk football since someone suggesting Troy Smith with the 3rd pick, he STILL did the right thing in getting rid of Dilfer. You don't let the inmates run the asylum. There is no way that Dilfer should have been kept and Mo fired. It would have put this team in complete shambles as far as the power structure. That is as terrible a move as doing things to cater to the fans so they won't boo as you have suggested so many times. Just when I think you can't post a more clueless post, you go out and redeem yourself.
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Another point to throw out there...
After RAC stuck with Mo, that meant Dilfer wanted out. Threatened retirement if he wasn't traded.
Therefore, RAC hitched his wagon to Frye. We all know how that turned out.
Now, before CoachB comes in and blasts me for blaming the QB for last year...Are we a good team with Dilfer under center and a different OC? HEAVENS NO. But are we the bumbling, stumbling mess we were last year with him under center? Do we give up nearly as many sacks and therefore lose first down chances and field position? After watching DA the past couple weeks, I honestly wonder...(for the record, yes I know our line improved this past offseason...but if you saw the first quarter and a half of week one you wouldn't have thunk it!)
Yet again, you show you know nothing about football or how to run a team. Dilfer demanded to get rid of Mo. Even if RAC thought Mo was the biggest idiot to talk football since someone suggesting Troy Smith with the 3rd pick, he STILL did the right thing in getting rid of Dilfer. You don't let the inmates run the asylum. There is no way that Dilfer should have been kept and Mo fired. It would have put this team in complete shambles as far as the power structure. That is as terrible a move as doing things to cater to the fans so they won't boo as you have suggested so many times. Just when I think you can't post a more clueless post, you go out and redeem yourself.
*yawn* Broken record...broken record...
You're like a comedian with 10 year old material.
Did it ever occur to you that those "inmates" you're referring to eventually ousted Mo anyway even if it was Savage, Lerner and Jim Brown who talked to RAC? Andruzzi was THRILLED Mo was gone...that much I DO know.
Perhaps Dilfer, as a LEADER of a team spoke on behalf of HIS GUYS.
I have no problem with players speaking up over CLUELESS coaching like Mo was.
Last edited by Ammo; 09/19/07 12:50 PM.
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That's why you should stick to messageboards instead of getting into coaching. Andruzzi was THRILLED? Oh, goody, and where is Joe now? Oh, yeah, he was CUT because he couldn't get the job done. It doesn't matter why Dilfer was making demands, but you are so off base (again), that it's laughable. I KNOW that Dilfer wasn't speaking for others. First, I know it from a reliable source inside of the team. Dilfer was mad at being benched and wanted out. Mo was an excuse to save face for being benched. Second, if he were talking for his teammates, he wouldn't have been trying to abandon them by demanding to LEAVE OR RETIRE. Yeah, that's the sign of a leader speaking for a teammate. Yes, I do sound like a broken record. It's sad how many times I have to correct your absurd statements with FOOTBALL KNOWLEDGE. Learn something about the game and stop posting ignorance and it won't bore you so much.
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Yes, I do sound like a broken record. It's sad how many times I have to correct your absurd statements with FOOTBALL KNOWLEDGE. Learn something about the game and stop posting ignorance and it won't bore you so much.
Give it a rest already Coach. You step in almost everytime he posts...Just save it for the real assinine posts he makes. That should cut it in half...
#gmstrong
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Sorry, P, but when he says that the FO should hire and fire coaches based on the demands of a career mediocre QB, that is as assinine as you can get.
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Hey Coach, I think we should try to trade Derrick Anderson for Troy Smith. I mean, he was a Buckeye!
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Sorry, P, but when he says that the FO should hire and fire coaches based on the demands of a career mediocre QB, that is as assinine as you can get.
Point taken.
#gmstrong
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Not to derail this thread or anything but Coach, are your boys still undefeated?
#gmstrong
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P, I don't think you signature was said by a Notre Dame fan. Wasn't it said by a Notre Dame player?
I might be wrong, but I heard it on ESPN, but I wasn't really watching so I couldn't see who they were interviewing, I thought it was a player.
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Yes, so far...but this week will be a big test. This week really will decide the conference and playoffs. My son broke his nose in practice Monday and had surgery yesterday to set it. He is going to try to play, but not sure. If he can't go, we will miss him as a captain that is averaging 19 tackles a game and 5 rec/85 yds and 2 TDs on offense. So, keep your fingers crossed.
Back to the thread LOL
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Pit, Ammo and other RAC haters, I was just reading this article and for some reason I though of you guys: http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7238824Here are some fun to know quotes/facts Quote:
Lewis was very quick to point out the credit Romeo Crennel deserves for keeping the team focused. What was interesting was how the head coach did it.
"He put it in the leaders' hands on our team. He wanted us to take charge and pull this thing together," Lewis said. "Romeo wanted us to set the tempo in practice and lead by example and just put everything together. That's what we did this entire week. It was Willie McGinest. It was Andra Davis. It was Hank Fraley. It was myself. We have a lot of guys on this team who have been around the block. We have a lot of guys who have been to the playoffs and been to the Super Bowl and simply expect nothing else and know how to get the work done. We had to rally to bring everyone together."
WOW.. I guess that RAC cannot coach a bit!!!.. I
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Dog,, this is the problem with a few posters that just think they know more than they really do..
Look, I know my limitations. I know that I don't know enough about football to fill the head of a pin,, no sense in denying it really.
BUT, this is what I do KNOW!
I KNOW: You don't judge a book by it's cover: I get the feeling that some on here think that because RAC is overweight, he is a loser... Idiotic thinking to say the least, yet some have called him on it.. DUMB DUMB,,,
| KNOW: That only a person that has an agenda would use ONLY the stats that prove his/her point without regard to the ENTIRE PICTURE.
I KNOW: That it's been told to all of us fans that the TEAM was in a horrible position when RAC and SAVAGE took over.. WE weren't lied to. WE were told that it will take time to acquire the talent needed.. WE were NOT told that it would be Painful at times, but then if you tell someone that you are going to have to CUT thier arm off to fix something then sew the Arm back on,, don't you think they should know that it's gonna hurt.
I KNOW: That we weren't told that mistakes were going to be made.. But you would have to be a GIANT BUTTHEAD not to expect some doozies along the way.. Yet some on here want to pick on every little thing that goes wrong as a sign that someone doesn't know what they are doing,,,, DUMB DUMB DUMB.
I KNOW: That if we fire RAC just as we are getting the team talent level where it needs to be, that the next coach will have a better record and someone on here will say,, SEE, I told you so, , RAC was the problem....That's even DUMBER!
So no, I'm not X's and O's expert,,, and most of you aren't either (get over yourselves already will ya) But there are some basic human truths and the above represents them as I SEE THEM!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Pit, Ammo and other RAC haters,
Since when am I a RAC hater?
RAC critic? Perhaps. But hater? Hell no...he's a guy you wanna see succeed because he seems like a genuine guy you wanna sit down and talk football with.
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. I doesn't wash with me ,
I'm not concerned wheather it does or not. Actually,I could care less.
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Marty had nothing to do with that offense other than allowing Norv Turner to install it. Marty isn't an offensive guy. Also, get a clue, Norv was the OC when SD installed the offense.
You're right. Marty has only had two losing seasons in his ENTIRE coaching career. But Marty has NOTHING to do with it! And how many losing seasons has Norv had as a head coach again? How many times has he already proven himself innept as a head coach again? Oh,but you're right!
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The talent has been progressing since year one. But the wins only got fewer,not better.
I thought it wasn't about wins ?
And I guess RAC has done somethings right, or is he not responsible for the talent progressing ?
Well according to your train of thought above,RAC has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT! Remember? It's all the OC and DC. Head coaches are just figure heads. Remember what you said about Marty?
Yet it's rather funny how Norv "The Master Mind" Turner gets all the credit in San Diego,while you wish to give RAC credit here? For what pray tell?.
You can't have it both ways. If Marty doesn't get any credit for the success of the Chargers,why should RAC get creit for player development? Besides,"player development" has nothing to do with what I was speaking about in the first place.And exactly what players do you feel have been "developed" so much other than Wimbley and D'Quell? Pool? Frye? Braylon? I'd REALLY like to HEAR this one!
My point was PHIL has brought IN more and more talent each year. IF it were "being developed" we could have seen some of it on the field last year. We didn't. Do you honestly think Phil will stick his neck out to support a coach that hasn't developed or shown positive results last year if he doesn't "turn it around" this year? That makes no sense at all. Appearantly,unbeknownst to you, this is a league that is based in results.
And you don't have to look at "wins" from year one to year two,show me "progress or consistancy" that developed to ANY degree in year two over year one. You can't.
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No , however when a man repeatdly makes the same statement to the media, I would tend to put stock in it.
If it's just pr, than why say anything at all, why show any support outside on the norm. This is just conjecture on your part.
Maybe because you keep getting asked the very same question over and over? A "no comment" answer wouldn't be "PR" it would be a "PR nightmare". Phil is doing the PC thing which is simply part of his job. Are you trying to tell me that you haven't seen GM's give support to the head coach "publicly" before and it has simply ended up as "the kiss of death"? Sure you have. I don't even think you believe what you're saying yourself when it comes to this part of the debate. If you do,we're back to the "naive" part again.
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Yes,you really do,don't you? You honestly believe that Phil would openly state to the media that RAC IS on the hot seat!
We're back to the "clueless" part again.
No he wouldn't, nor would he go out of his way to try and convince the media that he wasn't on the hot seat. just wishfull thinking on your part.
Once again,when the media is constantly hounding you about where the head coach stands. You must consistantly give the same answer. And to avoid MAJOR ripples in the organization,you must support him as long as he'e here. 1+1=2
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Boy thats a convincing argument, can you name those guys, you know, MOST. LMAO
They're right here on this board.
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Im sure you have a link to that statement, right ?
Or is this , you telling us what Phil thinks ? How hypocritical, tell me I don't know what Phil is thinking, when it's there for you in print. Yet tell me he wanted Kubiac, with nothing to prove that statement. Just more agenda driven twisting on your part.
No,most people who were keeping close to the situation at the time pretty well know this. Many of them right here on this board. Convincing you means "nothing" to me. I could care less about that. It's pretty common knowledge. I don't plan to waste my time with you on this part of the topic. Most here already know it. Phil didn't "pick" RAC,Collins and Lerner did. And Collins is gone. RAC picked Mo. Mo is gone. Kind of a pattern there don't ya think?
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I'll assume Phill let you know this off the record, right ?
I'll bet your good at Twister.
So why doesn't he tell the media that we are going to the SB every year ?
Isn't that what they want to hear ?
You really are a joke when it comes to this part of the discussion.Do you remember what you said above? Or have you forgotten already? Here's a reminder.....................
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Yes,you really do,don't you? You honestly believe that Phil would openly state to the media that RAC IS on the hot seat!
We're back to the "clueless" part again.
No he wouldn't, nor would he go out of his way to try and convince the media that he wasn't on the hot seat. just wishfull thinking on your part.
Now you can go on and on all you like,but Phil hasn't "gone out of his way" to "convince" anybody. He's simply answerred the SAME question in a VERY similar style each time it's been asked. To state otherwise is wishfull thinking on your part ATT.....I mean whatever your username is now.
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I don't have to list my OPINIONS as to what RAC has done right, thats all you are really are doing. Listing your OPINIONS.
So you got nuthin'? That's pretty much what I expected. Can you even show me half time adjustments that WERE made in year one or two at half time when we were behind? Or would that be an "opinion" too?
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I don't have the same agenda you have, fire RAC/ hire Marty. I'm willing to wait it out , I feel Savage will make the right decision if and when it needs to be made. After all he knows what he's really thinking doesn't he.
I don't pretend to know more than the guy that holds down the job.
Nobody really has to "pretend" anything. If you go 11-23,you better "right the ship" in the NFL. That's not "opinion". And besides,I'm pretty sure Phil has a pretty firm grasp on reality. It is what it is and Phil knows that. It's only obvious.
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I really don't plan on making you a list, you have your agenda, you will still be arguing long after Marty goes elsewhere, or probably still be arguing if RAC were to somehow make the playoffs this year, so what would the point be.
If RAC can turn things around,I'd be THRILLED! All I've asked for are "indications you've seen that show there's a decsent chance of that happenning". What did you come up with?
Zero,zip,nada. The same thing everyone else has come up with. And you're right,I do have an "agenda". I want our team to win. I want a competant coach who can fully utilize the talent Phil is bringing in here. If RAC can do that.fine. I'd be thrilled to see that happen.
But just like the rest of the "RAC rationalisers" you can't provide ANYTHING of substance or indications that show he has the ability to do this.
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If you knew half as much as you thought, you wouldn't be posting, you would be doing it.
Ditto!
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By the way, I have been a Browns fan since the very early 60s, so kid, really is a patronizing statement to me.
If you want to argue, argue, but don't pull that crap when someone doesn't agree with you . I takes away from your arguement. JMHO
My point stands on its own merrit. There are facts that indicate he's failed miserably thus far. I don't have to justify "facts". Others just simply need to try to rationalise them.
And I went to my first Browns game in 1964. Big deal.
The thing that I find so goofy in your debate is you want us to look at what Phil "tells the press WHEN questioned". At your age,you should know better than to even ATTEMPT to lend credance to that. That's EXACTLTY why I thought you were a kid.
At our ages,we should know far better than that by now.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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23-11 does NOT "equal 1". Jeesh..............
Pit,, you just don't get it do you,,, I'm sorry, but talking to you about this is really a waste of time,,,, You want to count games against him during a time when the talent level was so poor, that NOBODY could have made anything out of it.. But that's not good enough for you,
You want him gone and that's really the bottom line... you don't have good reasons... you just don't want him here....
Reasons? What good reasons do you have to indicate he CAN right the ship Damon? I've named LOTS of "reasons" which you've conveniantly failed to address. Once again,what HAS HE DONE AS A COACH,that gives you any "strong indications" that he can be successfull in that position?
Please tell me? Not wins and losses. But quality head coaching attributes? It's a fairly basic question. Or hasn't he supposed to have at least shown some of the qualities it takes to make an NFL head coach in over two years?
Instead of trying to say "it's not worth talking to me about" why don't you actually address the questions? That would be kinda tough to do huh?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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You've been given those reasons at least twice and you ignore them and demand them at a later time.
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Ok Pit, you've got to stop... you can't keep telling me that it isn't about wins that it's about progress and consistency ........ and then posting RAC's win-loss record as proof that we aren't getting any better. Sorry, you can't have it both ways.
I get it. Claiming you inherrited an ENTIRE team that doesn't fit your system means you should win MORE games with them than AFTER you bring SOME talent that DOES fit your system.. It's not that "in and of itself" but that certainly is a "part" of the equasion.
I'd settle for simply showing me how we progressed at ALL in year two over year one. Can you even do that?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Pit, Ammo and other RAC haters,
Since when am I a RAC hater?
RAC critic? Perhaps. But hater? Hell no...he's a guy you wanna see succeed because he seems like a genuine guy you wanna sit down and talk football with.
Any time you disagree with Coach and he can't come up with anything legitimate as a counterpoint,you get labeled. Haven't you figured that out by now?
See,when he can't make valid points on his own,he feels degarding or labeling you somehow gives his opinion more merrit.
It's just part of the game Ammo. Consider the source and the way he does this consistantly and let it go at that.
Remember? His ONLY point was "Well,he was a good DC".
When that's all he's got,you knew desperation would set in at some point. I'm not backing a loser. If he CAN win,great!
But NOBODY has shown ANY valid indications or signs that they've seen that give us logical reasons to believe he can pull it off.
Just keep that in perspective Ammo.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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But NOBODY has shown ANY valid indications or signs that they've seen that give us logical reasons to believe he can pull it off.
as if you have shown anyone any reasons he can't be a successful HC....
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Typical Pit, not reading and comprehending in an effort to attack. That reply was to DogNDC, not me, but once again, you read only what you want to support your views and disregard anything else. As I said, there have been reasons listed and, much like above, you ignore them because they don't support your slanted view. Ammo should keep THAT in perspective.
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Is he looking successful to you? From his first game as our Head Coach up to right now, even after a nice and big win over a division rival, I am still leary on how he will gameplan, and make on field decisions plus his lack of consistancy, makes me question a Head Coach.
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Is he looking successful to you?
Based on his record of wins and losses,, NO.. But a person would have to be an air head to think that taking over a team in total disarray is something he should be judged on.. Judge him on what happens now that he's got some players..
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I am still leary on how he will gameplan, and make on field decisions plus his lack of consistancy, makes me question a Head Coach.
Be as leary as you want, but given that he only NOW has a team that looks decent has to be taken into consideration... unless you have an agenda that is.. I mean if you just want him gone,, then I guess you don't have to think about it that way,.. that's your call..
Myself, I think you worry too much.
Having said that... in a few weeks, after we've played some very tough teams,, The Pats and Ravens.... I'm thinking we'll know how good both the team and the coach is..
#GMSTRONG
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Typical Pit, not reading and comprehending in an effort to attack.
From your post above..........................
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Yes, I do sound like a broken record. It's sad how many times I have to correct your absurd statements with FOOTBALL KNOWLEDGE. Learn something about the game and stop posting ignorance and it won't bore you so much
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Give it a rest already Coach. You step in almost everytime he posts...Just save it for the real assinine posts he makes. That should cut it in half....
Yes,that was me Coach. Talking about knowledge and ignorance for the 5000th time sounding like a broken record. Only to in turn to accuse others of it.
Slick move................
And the only "point" I saw you make was that "He was a good DC so he must know how to coach." Now if you made others,I didn't see it. I was relatively busy and didn't really get on the board much from Saturday afternoon untill Monday afternoon. Sorry that seems to trouble you so very much. It wasn't a matter of "ignoring them" if they were posted. It was a matter of "not seeing them".
Just an FYI
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Pit, Ammo and other RAC haters,
Since when am I a RAC hater?
RAC critic? Perhaps. But hater? Hell no...he's a guy you wanna see succeed because he seems like a genuine guy you wanna sit down and talk football with.
Any time you disagree with Coach and he can't come up with anything legitimate as a counterpoint,you get labeled. Haven't you figured that out by now?
See,when he can't make valid points on his own,he feels degarding or labeling you somehow gives his opinion more merrit.
It's just part of the game Ammo. Consider the source and the way he does this consistantly and let it go at that.
Remember? His ONLY point was "Well,he was a good DC".
When that's all he's got,you knew desperation would set in at some point. I'm not backing a loser. If he CAN win,great!
But NOBODY has shown ANY valid indications or signs that they've seen that give us logical reasons to believe he can pull it off.
Just keep that in perspective Ammo.
This was your response to Ammo that was responding to DogNDC. You were blaming me for something someone else said. NOW you try to deflect and change the subject. Unfortunately for you, it's RIGHT THERE FOR ALL TO SEE. You were wrong. You can't even admit it when you're caught red handed blasting someone for something they never said.
The reasons were listed in this very thread. You don't like them because you want RAC gone so you ignore them. Same old Pit, different subject.
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Claiming you inherrited an ENTIRE team that doesn't fit your system means you should win MORE games with them than AFTER you bring SOME talent that DOES fit your system..
Pit, I could give you a few very good reasons why that happened... or I could sit back and let my cat walk on the keyboard for a minute... either way you would give the post about the same amount of consideration....
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But NOBODY has shown ANY valid indications or signs that they've seen that give us logical reasons to believe he can pull it off.
as if you have shown anyone any reasons he can't be a successful HC....
Let's try this again Damon.
Show me ANY example of where the head coach made halftime adjustments in our offense last year when we were behind at half time.
Hell,just point out ANY of his strong suits that "you have seen" that give you an indication that he's NFL head coaching material.
For someone you advocate staying put at the position,can't you put your fingers on any head coaching qualities that you feel will lead to success here?
You see,you don't have to "win a game" to see your O is inneffetive in the first half and make adjustments to try to correct that effectiveness. You just have to see it and make some adjustments to try to correct it. Now it may not work. But at least you've shown that you see the problem and tried to address it.
Player development. How many roster changes have we made since they have been here? And out of those changes,can you tell me how many of those players have been developed to play up to their ability? Realisticly,outside of injuries,it should be what? One third? One half?
I mean surely Damon you can do a little better than this can't you?
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as if you have shown anyone any reasons he can't be a successful HC....
Is that what you base your reasoning for thinking RAC CAN be a successfull head coach in the NFL or do you have anything of substance to add "that you've seen"? Are you telling me that after two years PLUS,that's all you have to show he's qualified to be our head coach? Absolutely nothing?
At least during the "QB debates" around here,we can actually discuss strong points and weak points. In this discussion?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Claiming you inherrited an ENTIRE team that doesn't fit your system means you should win MORE games with them than AFTER you bring SOME talent that DOES fit your system..
Pit, I could give you a few very good reasons why that happened... or I could sit back and let my cat walk on the keyboard for a minute... either way you would give the post about the same amount of consideration....
The question is an open one that even you yourself have not addressed. Just look at the post above to Damon and see if YOU can point to "RAC's strong suits" that show he has the makings of an NFL head coach.
Anything of merrit other than "why he hasn't and couldn't have won"? Anything?
Strong NFL coaching attributes maybe?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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But NOBODY has shown ANY valid indications or signs that they've seen that give us logical reasons to believe he can pull it off.
as if you have shown anyone any reasons he can't be a successful HC....
Let's try this again Damon.
Show me ANY example of where the head coach made halftime adjustments in our offense last year when we were behind at half time.
Hell,just point out ANY of his strong suits that "you have seen" that give you an indication that he's NFL head coaching material.
For someone you advocate staying put at the position,can't you put your fingers on any head coaching qualities that you feel will lead to success here?
You see,you don't have to "win a game" to see your O is inneffetive in the first half and make adjustments to try to correct that effectiveness. You just have to see it and make some adjustments to try to correct it. Now it may not work. But at least you've shown that you see the problem and tried to address it.
Player development. How many roster changes have we made since they have been here? And out of those changes,can you tell me how many of those players have been developed to play up to their ability? Realisticly,outside of injuries,it should be what? One third? One half?
I mean surely Damon you can do a little better than this can't you?
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as if you have shown anyone any reasons he can't be a successful HC....
Is that what you base your reasoning for thinking RAC CAN be a successfull head coach in the NFL or do you have anything of substance to add "that you've seen"? Are you telling me that after two years PLUS,that's all you have to show he's qualified to be our head coach? Absolutely nothing?
At least during the "QB debates" around here,we can actually discuss strong points and weak points. In this discussion?
Why limit it to last year? You can point directly to last week to see when the coaching staff made adjustments that were successful. Oh, that's right, limiting it to last year would limit looking at the first season under RAC and also last week. Therefore, it proves your point by limiting the timeframe.
What players has RAC developed? Well, let's see.....just off the top of my head, I would say that Sean Jones looks pretty good, as does Wimbley, Jackson, Williams, Devon Holly (though he's still developing), Winslow, Edwards (despite his injury), Fraser (from unsigned FA to quality depth), McMillan (see Fraser), and Cribbs. Of course, any expert will tell you that it takes 3 years to be able to judge a player's development, but you want it now, so I gave you a list of those that have developed rather nicely under RAC.
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Pit, Ammo and other RAC haters,
I was just reading this article and for some reason I though of you guys:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7238824
Here are some fun to know quotes/facts
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Lewis was very quick to point out the credit Romeo Crennel deserves for keeping the team focused. What was interesting was how the head coach did it.
"He put it in the leaders' hands on our team. He wanted us to take charge and pull this thing together," Lewis said. "Romeo wanted us to set the tempo in practice and lead by example and just put everything together. That's what we did this entire week. It was Willie McGinest. It was Andra Davis. It was Hank Fraley. It was myself. We have a lot of guys on this team who have been around the block. We have a lot of guys who have been to the playoffs and been to the Super Bowl and simply expect nothing else and know how to get the work done. We had to rally to bring everyone together."
WOW.. I guess that RAC cannot coach a bit!!!.. I
Can you tell me how this shouldn't be what was done all along? Can you honestly believe that the veteran players haven't been the leaders on the field all along? Are you suggesting it's been the rookies that RAC has asked to lead this team on the field up untill just last week? He asked the "rookies" to "lead by example" in training camp?
Pulease...............
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Why limit it to last year? You can point directly to last week to see when the coaching staff made adjustments that were successful. Oh, that's right, limiting it to last year would limit looking at the first season under RAC and also last week. Therefore, it proves your point by limiting the timeframe.
I can tell you "why" I limited it up through last year. Because through LAST year,the OC's were "RAC's guys". Now? Phil saw the same thing I did so he put in "his guy". And I don't believe RAC has much say in the matter anymore. At least on the O side of the ball.
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What players has RAC developed? Well, let's see.....just off the top of my head, I would say that Sean Jones looks pretty good, as does Wimbley, Jackson, Williams, Devon Holly (though he's still developing), Winslow, Edwards (despite his injury), Fraser (from unsigned FA to quality depth), McMillan (see Fraser), and Cribbs. Of course, any expert will tell you that it takes 3 years to be able to judge a player's development, but you want it now, so I gave you a list of those that have developed rather nicely under RAC.
I didn't say "judge it" coach,I said "see some of it". They don't blossom overnight like an orchid. It's a gradual process. And Braylon? Oh,you're judging that on ONE GAME! Because up untill just last week,everybody and their brother knew BE was an underachiever. Please forgive me if I believe the jury is still out on that one.
KW2? He's a very good TE. But even he says he's not 100%. But he's pretty damned good! Looks MUCH better under the "new OC"!
Some of the others on your list? Some are pretty debateable. ie.......Fraser,McMillan. I'd rather see if they're still even on the roster next year much less say they've " developed into quality depth". But I will say not EVERY player has been 100% stagnant since they got here. But not really a lot to brag about. Wimbley came IN here playing hot. So according to your "three year plan" theory,that's God given talent,not "player development". But DQ has gotten better. Either that,or oposing D's focus a lot more om Wimbley now which gives DQ more oppertunity. That's a tough call to be sure on either way to this juncture.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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First, do you have a link that says that Chud is Savage's guy and not RAC's? Oh, that's right, you don't. That's your interpretation of the situation. As for Wimbley not being developed, yeah, anyone can take a DE and turn him into an OLB. It doesn't take any coaching or developing. Taking rookie UFAs and making them second teamers doesn't take anything either.
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First, do you have a link that says that Chud is Savage's guy and not RAC's? Oh, that's right, you don't. That's your interpretation of the situation.
Funny thing Coach? That was YOUR interpritation of it too when it happenned. But now? It doesn't suit your side of the debate. Funny how it works like that huh? Matter of fact,it's funny how it works that way with a LOT of people.
(Didn't want you to feel I was singling you out there.)
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As for Wimbley not being developed, yeah, anyone can take a DE and turn him into an OLB. It doesn't take any coaching or developing. Taking rookie UFAs and making them second teamers doesn't take anything either.
Once again,you've stated numerous times that our depth is lacking,but gradually getting better. Now our second teamers are SO "developed"? Make up your mind Coach. I keep hearing on the one hand we can't afford injuries because our "depth isn't great" then you come along and tell me it is. Rather confusing don't you think?
So RAC showed from May untill September last year with Wimbley that he was great at developing talent. ONE "great,quick,immediate" development? What about the "three year excuse" you used for the others Coach?
Remember? I wanted to see it now,but it takes three years? Now you say it was accomplished in a few short months but God given talent wasn't a major part of the equasion? Once again,make up your mind?
Three years or a few months? Have you been taking PR lessons from Carmon Policy again?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Talking to you is worthless. Just like in political debates, you do nothing but twist and spin. Funny how you CLAIM I said Chud was hired because of Savage when I never even IMPLIED it. You don't think that taking rookie UFAs and developing them into backups doesn't take coaching abilitiy? You don't think that it takes coaching ability to, in a few short months, develop a DE into an OLB? I never said they were FULLY DEVEOPED and at their PEAK, I said that RAC is the one that is responsible for their developing into what they have. You see, Pit, some people can read and comprehend, others want to have debates and discussions. You....want to be right so bad you'll twist anything.
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To weigh in on the Mo and Frye talk. Thats, essentially 1.5 mistakes. Looking all in all at Romeo's tenure, those are the only really HUGE mistakes hes made. He's been bad with the challenge flag, but thats not all him either. Theres people in the booth who are telling him when and when not to challenge too.
By sticking with Mo, he wanted to maintain that continuity that we'd been so desperately seeking. Ok it didn't work out. Ya live and learn.
Frye, young guy with some promise and a lot of heart. Give him a shot. It didnt work out. Ok, mistake we move on. and now we're at Derek. With Charlie Frye, it didnt matter. Brady was and still is perceived to be THE GUY, and if you go with Frye and he does bad, or Anderson and he does bad, youre in hot water either way.
Granted Romeo hasnt been perfect. But the guy is learning. He's growing as a coach just like our team is growing as a team.
You can bet that if we fire Romeo and he ever did get another head coaching job. He'd do well. Remember, Belichek was run out of town because of a bad decision. Not completely, but that didnt help. When he left, he had learned and was ready. But he didnt have his own hole to dig out of.
Right now Romeo is digging out of his own hole (I got your analogy daman). Thats a little tougher than going to someone else's flat ground and building a hill with it. He's filling in his own hole. Let him try. Why not right?
Sound coaching or not, its improving, and if thats what we want from the team, then we should allow the coach that same luxury. Improvement is the name of the game. Romeo isnt regressing, he is progressing too
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