DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Trump just blinked, giving China a possible edge in trade war

China played him yet again. Trump actually knew how badly those tariffs would be before the holidays. He knew Americans would see that he's been lying all along and that Americans pay the tariffs. As such, he postponed the additional tariffs until after Christmas.

So what did China do? They did exactly what anyone should do to get a reaction out of Trump. They imposed additional tariffs. They knew Trump would shoot himself in the foot by immediately raising tariffs on their goods.

Now, when Americans all over our nation do their annual Christmas shopping, they'll know exactly who pays for those tariffs. They do.

Certainly I think China is playing Trump and making him react. They are more in control of this trade war than the USA is ...

I'v said it before - the goal of curbing or stopping the intellectual and technological property theft is a great one. Worthwhile. Overdue ... perhaps it would have been achieved by Trump courting and working with our EU partners and NA partners and putting on a full court press, instead of attacking allies and partners and then independently going at it. Trump literally has no clue when it comes to trade. It's very obvious from the way he talks about the trade deficit ... and based on how he has no self control or filter, he's an easy mark.

I certainly agree with you about the intellectual property aspect. I also believe in strength through partnering with our allies rather than alienating them. Going it alone against an economic powerhouse like China is a recipe for disaster.

I just don't believe there's an actual answer to it as far as solving it. I mean let's face it, even if China would agree to protecting intellectual property, do you really believe that China would police their business to stop it? What we are actually talking about is reverse engineering products that come from the U.S.

For some reason, no matter what China says or agrees to, I find it highly suspect to believe that China is going to hurt their own economy by enforcing it. I mean you may get a token enforcement here and there to make it look like they're enforcing it, but they depend on that reverse engineering to bolster a large portion of their economy.

Trump on US-China trade war: ‘I could declare a national emergency’

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/25/trump-on...-emergency.html

Ok boys! Remember around mid 2020, make sure you got your brokerage accounts filled up. Gonna be plenty of buying opportunities at rock bottom prices!

https://www.wtnh.com/news/china-to-lift-punitive-tariffs-on-us-soybeans-pork/

China to lift punitive tariffs on US soybeans, pork



I distinctly remember me saying, in a different thread where some were saying how dumb Trump was and it's hurting our farmers - me saying China has to feed their people. And they can't do that buying beans from some other country.

I was berated and told I know nothing.

What happened, short term, was China buying soybeans from South America. What wasn't mentioned was the U.S. was selling soy beans to South America (I want to say Brazil) in order for them to sell to China.


Looks like China blinked first. Doesn't it?


I also remember being told that China would starve its people before they gave in.

You might want to wait.

This isn’t the first, or even second, time that both sides acted like they were easing off, only to turn around and go hard in the paint.

All it takes is an errant trump tweet.

That could be.

But, a bunch of people (I won't name names) sure as hell didn't wait when bashing Trump about this.

cause there wasnt a whole lot to wait on.

farmers have already lost literally billions due to the trade war. and the reality is that the majority of business they lost is permanently in the hands of other countries.

the sad reality is that agriculture is never gonna get those lost profits back.

and im still confused as to why trump decided the farmers were gonna be on the front lines on this fight?

and.....our trade deficit keeps increasing with china. kinda the opposite of whats suppose to happen.

I disagree with you.

Farmers have lost billions already? Really, due to some trade war that started a few months ago?

I guess the farmers around here got lucky, even though the weather hurt them.

The trade war started in 2018. Come on dude.

Sounds like you are rooting against us.

That can't be, right?

Why the hell would you even say some stupid crap like that

Cool man. I read some comments on other threads. I recant my comments with apology.

He's a pretty funny guy. Trump did blink. You see, actually five days ago Trump announced an easing of sanctions first. China simply reciprocated. But he didn't mention that part did he?

China Exempts Soybeans, Pork From Tariffs as Tensions Ease

https://www.usnews.com/news/economy/arti...s-tensions-ease

It's called ongoing negotiations, not blinking.

Things will ebb and flow as negotiations proceed.

You should stop posting and consider watching and learning.
It is getting embarrassing.

Yeah, when you start a trade war and you're the first one to start backing down, you blinked.

Here's a refresher just in case you missed it......

Trade wars are easy to win......

Jc

So if the economy is booming as much as trump said, why did the feds just cut rates again?

Maybe the fed doesn’t believe in trump like a herd of sheep.

Trying to put off Trump's crash until a dem is in the Oval. Makes it easier to blame the dem 4 years down the road after they clean up the mess.

Just like the last time.. I can remember people right here on this board (I will refrain from naming them) that were so stupid as to tell me that the mess of 2009 was Obamas fault. Keep in mind, this was said in March of 2009, Obama had been in office less then 60 days at that point.

I pointed out that the troubles started under Bush, and the response I got from a VERY RESPECTED poster here was: Obama is President, so it's his fault.

You just can't get any dumber than that.

Up until that moment, I had the utmost respect for that poster, no more..

He wasn't alone,, there were others that echoed his words.. They aren't very smart either.

Wasn't Obamas fault, the crash was in large part to Clintons policies - forcing banks to lend to people who shouldnt have been getting mortgages.

After a few years, you all blamed bush for that.

Funny how its a circle of life, simba.

You mean after Bush had eight years to fix that?

I never said he did anything to FIX it, I said it started under Clinton due to his policies - and the left blamed him for it.

But please, keep trying to throw shade instead of keeping the facts straight.

My suggestion was a rather simple one. If you are just elected and something the previous administration did suddenly slams you in your face, then by all means blame your predecessor. But don't wait for eight years while doing nothing to fix a problem and then try to play the innocent victim and blame someone else.

Chinese trade negotiators cancel US farm visit, cut trip short

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/20/chinese-trade-negotiators-cancels-us-farm-visit-cuts-trip-short.html

Umm. Ok.

Trump says he doesn’t need a trade deal with China before the 2020 election

-President Donald Trump on Friday said he doesn’t think he needs to strike a trade deal with China before the 2020 presidential election.

-Trump also said he is “not looking for a partial deal” with Beijing, moving away from his suggestion last week that he would consider an “interim deal.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/20/trump-sa...0-election.html

Nope.
Still not blinking.

Get ready 40!!!

October might be a wild ride for us bro!!

Since when have we been able to believe anything Trump says?

talk about an united front lmfao. they cant even keep it together in front of the media:

Trump surprised when Mnuchin says he asked China trade delegation to cancel farm tour

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/23/trump-su...-farm-tour.html

President Donald Trump was clearly surprised Monday — and asked “why?” — when Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said U.S. officials asked members of China’s trade delegation to cancel a scheduled farm tour in the United States last week.

American stock market indices plunged Friday on the news of the cancellation of a planned visit with farmers in Bozeman, Montana, and Omaha, Nebraska, after the Chinese delegation concluded trade talks in Washington.

Trump was asked Monday how the cancellation could affect trade talks with China. The question came during a bilateral meeting at the United Nations between Trump, other administration officials, and Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi.

“Well, they’re starting to buy a lot of our ag product,” Trump said. “But Steven, could you maybe,” the president said, referring to Mnuchin.

Mnuchin then said, “That was actually at our request they delayed that.”

“So, we didn’t want there to be any confusion. They have started buying agriculture,” the Treasury chief continued. “They’re going to reschedule that at a different time. The timing didn’t work. But that was — that was purely at our request.”

Trump then asked Mnuchin, “Why was that our request, just out of curiosity?”

The president punctuated that question with a chuckle that seemed to indicate displeasure — or unease — more than humor.

Mnuchin started to answer, “We didn’t want confusion around the trade issues.”

Trump quickly interjected, “Yeah, but I want them to buy farm products.”

Mnuchin then responded, “There was no confusion, we want them to buy agriculture. They’ve committed to buy agriculture. And they’re doing that.”

Trump added, “They’ve committed to buy a lot of agriculture, and they’re going to start, and they’ve started.”

“And we should get them over there as soon as possible so they can start buying,” the president said.

Trump has a history of contradicting Mnuchin in public about various issues, including on alleged currency manipulation by China, linking security concerns about the technology company Huawei with trade talks with China, and on setting conditions for negotiations with Iran.

GP: US-POLITICS-TRUMP-IRAN-SANCTION
US President Donald Trump speaks before signing an executive order for sanctions on Iran’s supreme leader in the Oval Office of the White House on June 24, 2019 as US Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin looks on.
Mandel Ngan | AFP | Getty Images
Trump in June said China would buy “massive amounts” of American farm products as a result of a meeting between him and Chinese leader Xi Jinping. Those promised purchase have not happened.

Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue last Thursday said he hoped the planned farm tour by the Chinese delegation would lead to new purchase agreements.

Shortly before the Chinese visit was canceled, Montana farmer Michelle Erickson-Jones said that it was “very encouraging to see that we expect a delegation from the Chinese negotiating team to visit Montana.”

“We have been suffering increased costs and a loss of a key export market since we first enacted tariffs and faced retaliatory tariffs in 2018,” said Erickson-Jones, who is a past president of the Montana Grain Growers Association.

Since March 2018, Montana wheat farms have seen their sales to China drop to almost nothing after having annual sales of $65 million in the prior five years, she said.

Liars. China isn’t buying didly so they cancelled the farm tour in fear of farmer protests.

Trump farm secretary: No guarantee small farms will survive

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-farm-secretary-no-guarantee-155837217.html

MADISON, Wis. (AP) — President Donald Trump's agriculture secretary said Tuesday during a stop in Wisconsin that he doesn't know if the family dairy farm can survive as the industry moves toward a factory farm model.

U.S. Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue told reporters following an appearance at the World Dairy Expo in Madison that it's getting harder for farmers to get by on milking smaller herds.

"In America, the big get bigger and the small go out," Perdue said. "I don't think in America we, for any small business, we have a guaranteed income or guaranteed profitability."

Perdue's visit comes as Wisconsin dairy farmers are wrestling with a host of problems, including declining milk prices, rising suicide rates, the transition to larger farms with hundreds or thousands of animals and Trump's international trade wars.

Wisconsin, which touts itself as America's Dairyland on its license plates, has lost 551 dairy farms in 2019 after losing 638 in 2018 and 465 in 2017, according to data from the state Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection. The Legislature's finance committee voted unanimously last month to spend an additional $200,000 to help struggling farmers deal with depression and mental health problems.

Jerry Volenec, a fifth generation Wisconsin dairy farmer with 330 cows, left the Perdue event feeling discouraged about his future.

"What I heard today from the secretary of agriculture is there's no place for me," Volenec told reporters. "Can I get some support from my state and federal government? I feel like we're a benefit to society."

Getting bigger at the expense of smaller operations like his is "not a good way to go," said Darin Von Ruden, president of Wisconsin Farmers Union and a third generation dairy farmer who runs a 50-cow organic farm.

"Do we want one corporation owning all the food in our country?" he said to reporters.

Perdue said he believes the 2018 farm bill should help farmers stay afloat. The bill reauthorizes agriculture and conservation programs at a rough cost of $400 billion over five years or $867 billion over 10 years. But he warned that small farms will still struggle to compete.

"It's very difficult on an economy of scale with the capital needs and all the environmental regulations and everything else today to survive milking 40, 50, or 60 or even 100 cows," he said.

Perdue held a town hall meeting with farmers and agricultural groups to kick off the expo. The former Georgia governor seemed to charm the crowd with his southern accent and jokes about getting swiped in the face by a cow's tail.

Jeff Lyon, general manager for FarmFirst Dairy Cooperative in Madison, asked Perdue for his thoughts on Trump's trade war with China.

Trump's administration has long accused China of unfair trade practices and has imposed escalating rounds of tariffs on Chinese imports to press for concessions. The administration alleges that Beijing steals and forces foreign companies to hand over trade secrets, unfairly subsidizes Chinese companies and engages in cyber-theft of intellectual property. China's countermoves have been especially hard on American farmers because they target U.S. agricultural exports.

According to a September analysis by the U.S. Dairy Export Council, U.S. dairy solids exports to China fell by 43 percent overall in the 11 months starting in July 2018, when China enacted the first round of retaliatory tariffs on U.S. dairy products. About 3.7 billion pounds of U.S. farmers' milk had to find other markets during that span, the analysis found.

Chinese leaders have said they're ready to talk but will take whatever steps are necessary to protect their rights.

Perdue responded to Lyon's question by calling the Chinese "cheaters."

"They toyed us into being more dependent on their markets than them on us. That's what the problem has been," he said. "They can't expect to come into our country freely and fairly without opening up their markets."

The secretary said the Trump administration is working to expand other international markets, including targeting India, Thailand, Vietnam, Japan and Malaysia. He said he had expected Congress to ratify a new trade agreement between the United States, Mexico and Canada to replace NAFTA but noted that Washington has been distracted over the last few days, an allusion to impeachment proceedings against Trump ramping up last week.

___

This story has been updated to correct Perdue's quote that begins, "In America." It should end with the word "profitability," not "probability."

___

My half-serious prediction: The cave is coming. It was always his emergency pocket ace. When he’s 3-6 months out from next November, markets are off, recession is on or on the brink, his polling is looking more than a little rugged, he’ll get the Chinese to agree to a small concession on their end and give away the store on ours. Dropping or lowering the tariffs will indeed goose the markets and the economy at large. Might even send it into solid growth for a few months or a year, delaying a raft of systemic issues from coming home to roost.. delaying, not stopping. Everyone who isn’t a supporter will rightfully point out the raw deal but as with any sort of logical argument longer than a mean tweet it won’t matter a wit to his followers who barely care about the underlying economic principles or IP protection issues and in those silly self-mastabatory rallies and Fox News he’ll hold up the dead squirrel he bagged and call it a mighty lion’s mane to raucous cheers and back slaps. His base is re-juiced, reason is successfully shouted down, and his numbers begin to rise. It might just work.

Dreams are weird right?

EU to respond with 'retaliatory' tariffs against US

https://thehill.com/policy/finance/trade/464159-eu-to-respond-with-retaliatory-tariffs-against-us


Trade Wars are easy...

so.....our allies dont really like us a whole lot.

our respect level dropped dramatically once we went from obama to trump. i guess the world is part of the deep state, too.

What’s funny is that several of the Trumpies I know personally insist that America is finally respected again with Trump in office. I cannot for the life of me understand what they mean when they say this. Having travelled extensively for business I know a good number of people around the world, not just Europe. NONE of them respect America more because Trump is in office. Most have a sort of shocked pity, like it’s just so sad what’s become of their old friend, the one that used to be a real star, a real inspiration for everyone, one of the greats but has now just sort of lost their mind. I always want to ask but I don’t usually have the time and energy to open the can of crazy; by what measure are we respected more now where we weren’t before? I think these people confuse respect with a mingled fear and avoidance. Like a guy in upper management at your company that is generally sober and in charge, intimidating but reserved, gets drunk at the company party and just starts grabbing ass, telling people off and getting aggressive and pushing people people he never really liked but was always civil with during business hours. Maybe he thinks he’s now being respected? That’s the only sort of analogy I can think of that makes this kind of “respect” make sense.

There is a mountain of difference between respect-because-you-are-my-lapdog and respect-because-you-are-putting-your-own-citizens-FIRST.

Of course they don't like being bitten by their lapdog.

This isn't difficult to see.

apparently it is pretty difficult, seeing as you're completely wrong.

our allies dont respect us, at much of any level. hell, trump doesn't even respect this country. trump is about trump first, not america.

Is this trade war supposed to bring benefits to the average American? It is my understanding the cost of many goods has gone up for Americans. I am no economist, just trying to wrap my head around all these tariffs.

I would think it would benefit the world, if we were more friendly with our international brethren. Again, not an economist.

It sure hasn't helped the farmers.