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AP votes one of those others a paper "share."
Have always handed out a trophy.
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And they didn't do it the year Auburn "got screwed."
I seriously doubt they'll do it after a USC - LSU matchup.
They only did it the year their OPINION was discounted by the computers. Wasn't their fault, wasn't my fault, wasn't Oklahoma's fault, but it was a fault.
You can only vote 1 team #1. USC was #1 going into the bowl and they won the bowl, why wouldnt they vote USC #1? Why would they vote the winner of a #2/#3 matchup #1? Makes no sense.
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LSU,...National Champion according to the BCS, where the GAME WAS PLAYED, and not voted on.
LOL, the championship is voted on, the BCS is not a governing authority, It is nothing more than attempt to match the No. 1 and No. 2 teams within the bowl system.
From the BCS website:
"The BCS is Working
The BCS is succeeding. The nation's No. 1 and No. 2 teams met only eight times in bowl games in the 57 seasons between 1936 and 1992, when the "bowl coalition" (a predecessor of the BCS) was created. No. 1 and No. 2 have met eight times in the 15 years since 1992. In the nine-year history of the BCS, the AP's No. 1 and No. 2 have met six times "
They want the AP#1 & #2 because the AP is a recognized national champion.
Eat it Phil...
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So what is it that you think should change everyone's mind about the system that was in place -- agreed to by the AP and USC -- that decided LSU is the 2003 Champ ??
You can keep on coming back as often as you want, nobody cares. I don't play football to win a paper title. Did USC get hosed ?? Probably,...but that's not my problem. Apparently it's yours. Nobody CARES dude, leave it go.
If you have a problem with the BCS, I understand that. If you want to continue to recognize an obsolete and outdated mode of picking a national champion, I understand that. I even respect your choice to do so. But don't keep cutthroating my "opinion" of what I see of college football. It's an OPINION -- if it's meaningless to you, FINE, NOBODY CARES. It's MY opinion. I don't try to force it on anybody as you keep trying to force what you believe on me.
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Just speaking from a SEC standpoint, it is nearly impossible for a team to get through that schedule undefeated....too many good teams and for some reason the SEC seems to have more heated rivalries than other conferences....I don't know why that is, but it is 
big ten rivalries are just as heated...
it's just that there are more top 10, top 15-ish teams in the sec, which makes it almost impossible to run the table, don't forget to throw in the fact that they do play a conference championship
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Juice- Give it up man. They won't listen. They are so envious of the SEC, they'll never admit that LSU was the true National Champion that year   Muni, Ohio State deserves a spot in the title game if they go undefeated? Even 2 of these teams... LSU, USC, Florida, West Virgina, and Oklahoma go undefeated as well? What do you base that opinion on? All 5 of those teams play a tougher schedule than Ohio State, and are currently ranked ahead of Ohio State. Let's say 2 of those teams, and Ohio State goes undefeated, Ohio State deserves to be left out, whether you care to admit it or not. Oh yeah, and also... everyone, and "And 1 Game" would get rid of all this sensless debating. Face it, no more than 4 BCS teams will go undefeated in 1 season. 4 undefeated teams, #1 in AP poll plays #4 in AP poll. #2 in AP poll plays #3 in AP poll. Two winners play each other. 3 undefeated teams, #1 in AP poll gets bye. #2 in AP poll plays #3 in AP poll. Winner of that game plays #1 team in AP poll. Only 2 undefeated teams, they play for the championship. No extra game. Only 1 undefeated team, undefeated team gets bye. #2 and #3 in AP poll play. Winner plays undefeated team. No undefeated team (which would be very rare anyway). Works same way as with 4 undefeated teams. #1 and #4 in AP poll play, and #2 and #3 play. Two winners play. Seriously, and one game will work every year.
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They'll all be drawer poopy when Ohio State and West Virginia are the only ones left,...
Or Oklahoma and Oregon,...
Or Texas and App State,.... (just kidding)
Or Wisconsin and Cal
Or Penn State and Boston College
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you can't justify ohio state being in the title game, if they run the table, and usc and fla/lsu run the table, because as dumb as it sounds, they were higher ranked in the preseason
and just for the record, i consider lsu the champs of the 2003 season, usc was good, but lsu won the #1 vs #2 matchup, and had usc been some other team, you know they aren't talking about being the champions of anything... i just dont think it's fair to lsu...
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Re-read my post Brother, I said IF Ohio State and West Virginia are the only ones left,...that is after the SEC beats the dog doo out of itself and a few other "occurrences" just happen to happen with everyone else having one loss.
There are probably MORE teams right now in college football that have a chance to run the table this year than in any given season I can remember. The good thing is, it CAN'T be both LSU and Florida !!!
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So what is it that you think should change everyone's mind about the system that was in place -- agreed to by the AP and USC -- that decided LSU is the 2003 Champ ??
You say agreed to like there was a deal in place, there was no deal. The AP let the BCS use there poll for their computer rankings, but there was no deal that the AP had to vote the winner #1. They were just apart of the formula that the BCS set up to help determine a true #1 (unfortunately it didnt work that year)
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I don't play football to win a paper title.
Again i guess you forgot that its not a paper title. The AP has been handing out the National Championship trophy for years and years and years etc...
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If you have a problem with the BCS
Not a problem with the BCS, a problem with people who are blind to the fact that nothing has changed in regards to 2 recognized entities crowning a national champion.
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If you want to continue to recognize an obsolete and outdated mode of picking a national champion,
Funny, because even the BCS championship is still "voted" however, the coaches are contractually obligated to vote the winner of the BCS #1.
from LeBron_James
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but lsu won the #1 vs #2 matchup,
Actually it was #2 vs #3 as LSU & Oklahoma were 2&3 in both the AP and Coaches.
Eat it Phil...
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Whatever,....hey what part does the AP have in determining a National Champ now,...??
Also of note, since the AP is no longer part of real college football, they have never voted a champion other than the BCS Title Game winner.
Quit living in the old AP my friend. It's done. Nobody cares. What matters is who gets to the game.
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how did that work, isn't it the bcs' job to put 1 vs 2 in the championship game?
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how did that work, isn't it the bcs' job to put 1 vs 2 in the championship game?
The BCS put #1 vs. #2 in the Championship game with Oklahoma vs. LSU. But then when USC beat Michigan... The AP decided they would try to have authority that they don't have and basically said "USC is our national champ"
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how did that work, isn't it the bcs' job to put 1 vs 2 in the championship game?
They did put 1 and 2 in the title game. USC was 3 in most of the computer polls and was left out as a result. Not our problem that the AP didn't get it right that year. USC had a much weaker schedule and it was reflected in the BCS rankings. Right ?? Maybe not, but it is what is is. LSU, National Champion, as a result of play on the field of battle.
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Whatever,....hey what part does the AP have in determining a National Champ now,...??
Also of note, since the AP is no longer part of real college football, they have never voted a champion other than the BCS Title Game winner.
Quit living in the old AP my friend. It's done. Nobody cares. What matters is who gets to the game.
Its over? Really?
When did the NCAA make this announcement? Please find me a link showing that the AP national championship is obsolete? Please, I dare you.
Again, NOTHING has changed, except that the BCS has developed a formula and system to help the #1 play the #2 and help determine a true champion.
Hey, im all for that, but it hasnt worked everytime and you need to recognize that the AP didnt just all of the sudden lose credibility.
So in 97, you dont recognize Michigan as the National Champs?
How about 1990, you dont recognize Colorado, you only say Georgia Tech were the National Champions?
Miami didnt win it in 91?
Eat it Phil...
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I don't play football to win a paper title.
Until there's a playoff it'll ALWAYS be a paper championship...
<><
#gmstrong
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I don't play football to win a paper title.
Until there's a playoff it'll ALWAYS be a paper championship...
Playoff will never, and should never happen in college football. See my post above on the "And 1 Game".
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I don't play football to win a paper title.
Until there's a playoff it'll ALWAYS be a paper championship...
Playoff will never, and should never happen in college football. See my post above on the "And 1 Game".
Didn't read your post... but I couldn't stop laughing when you said 'should' never happen in college football... since it happens in every division of college football except for the 'bowl division' or whatever the hell they are calling it this year...
I like the and 1 game idea... but I want an 8 game playoff... shouldn't be that hard to do it if the schools weren't so hard up for money and bowl games.
<><
#gmstrong
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I don't play football to win a paper title.
Until there's a playoff it'll ALWAYS be a paper championship...
OK, fellow Buckeye, tell that to the Florida Gators,...
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The BCS website used to recognize 2003 as a split national championship. The site used to read: Quote:
"2003 Regular Season
For the only time since the BCS was formed, there was a split national championship. LSU finish atop the coaches' poll by beating Oklahoma in the BCS championship game in the Sugar Bowl. USC, ranked first in both polls on bowl selection Sunday, finished third in the final BCS standings but was the writers' national champion after defeating Michigan in the Rose Bowl. Oklahoma, which spent the season as the top-ranked team in both polls, had earned a spot in the Sugar Bowl by finishing first in the final BCS Standings even though the Sooners were stunned by Kansas State in the Big 12 championship game. LSU, the SEC champion, edged USC for second place in the final BCS Standings to advance to the Sugar Bowl."
The BCS site no longer reads that way so I emailed them to ask why they changed it:
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Good question, and it comes up fairly often. The BCS stance on the 2003 season is the one currently described on the Web site, as you indicate below.
Of course, the BCS knows that by one definition fans can say the championship that season was "split." But the site was adjusted in reflect the championship the BCS works to create, much the way the Associated Press always lists one champion - the one from its poll - regardless what other polls may say.
I hope this helps.
Thank you,
BCS
**if you want me to email you the actual email I can, if you dont believe me.
Last edited by brownsfan2119; 09/18/07 10:10 PM.
Eat it Phil...
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just scanned your post about the and 1 - decent arguement... but what happens when you have three undefeated teams and a bunch of really good one loss - who gets in? What happens if you have an undefeated team like Hawaii sitting at 5th or 6th in the BCS? do they get in?
I just think there will be less debate with 8 teams...
<><
#gmstrong
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Whatever,....hey what part does the AP have in determining a National Champ now,...??
Also of note, since the AP is no longer part of real college football, they have never voted a champion other than the BCS Title Game winner.
Quit living in the old AP my friend. It's done. Nobody cares. What matters is who gets to the game.
Its over? Really?
When did the NCAA make this announcement? Please find me a link showing that the AP national championship is obsolete? Please, I dare you.
Again, NOTHING has changed, except that the BCS has developed a formula and system to help the #1 play the #2 and help determine a true champion.
Hey, im all for that, but it hasnt worked everytime and you need to recognize that the AP didnt just all of the sudden lose credibility.
So in 97, you dont recognize Michigan as the National Champs?
How about 1990, you dont recognize Colorado, you only say Georgia Tech were the National Champions?
Miami didnt win it in 91?
All those games you point out are BEFORE the BCS and are all valid paper championships. And if you would, go back and reread the thread and you will see I hinted that it was an abomination that the Coaches voted Nebraska a share of the title that Michigan clearly, under the system that was in place THEN, should have outright won.
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All those games you point out are BEFORE the BCS and are all valid paper championships. And if you would, go back and reread the thread and you will see I hinted that it was an abomination that the Coaches voted Nebraska a share of the title that Michigan clearly, under the system that was in place THEN, should have outright won.
I saw it, so why do you recognize the AP then and not now. They same system is in place, they vote, same with the BCS, the coaches vote, its not different, when will you get that, it has not changed.
The only thing that has changed is the tool giving us a better shot at seeing 1 vs 2, but its not a for sure thing. The AP handed out a trophy then and they will hand one out this year, it aint changin.
Eat it Phil...
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Because in my mind it doesn't matter what the AP does,...it just doesn't matter. They're not part of the system that everyone now generally recognizes as college football's King -- the winner of the BCS title game. For me it's that simple. Do I use the AP during the season as a guage, probably. But don't really care whether it recognizes a champ or not. History or not. Today is what matters, time to move on brother.
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Today is what matters
And today, the AP is still recognized, you failing to see that is your fault. You not recognizing the AP national champion is like me not recognizing Florida last year, it wouldnt make sense.
Eat it Phil...
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Didn' know you don't recognize Florida, but I would understand and respect that.
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Today is what matters
And today, the AP is still recognized, you failing to see that is your fault. You not recognizing the AP national champion is like me not recognizing Florida last year, it wouldnt make sense.
We're only talking the 2003 USC paper title; I can recognize whatever I want whenever I want,...that's what you fail to see. It's not about fault, it's not about USC, it ain't even about the AP --- it's an OPINION --just like the AP poll is. Your failing to see that is YOUR FAULT.
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Today is what matters
And today, the AP is still recognized, you failing to see that is your fault. You not recognizing the AP national champion is like me not recognizing Florida last year, it wouldnt make sense.
We're only talking the 2003 USC paper title; I can recognize whatever I want whenever I want,...that's what you fail to see. It's not about fault, it's not about USC, it ain't even about the AP --- it's an OPINION --just like the AP poll is. Your failing to see that is YOUR FAULT.
Its not an opinion though. It is fact. Look it up.
Eat it Phil...
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Today is what matters
And today, the AP is still recognized, you failing to see that is your fault. You not recognizing the AP national champion is like me not recognizing Florida last year, it wouldnt make sense.
We're only talking the 2003 USC paper title; I can recognize whatever I want whenever I want,...that's what you fail to see. It's not about fault, it's not about USC, it ain't even about the AP --- it's an OPINION --just like the AP poll is. Your failing to see that is YOUR FAULT.
Hence why we need a playoff and a NCAA championship
<><
#gmstrong
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Now you're telling me my opinion is not my opinion.
Yes, it is an opinion, different from yours, but it's mine. Kinda of hard to look it up.
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Now you're telling me my opinion is not my opinion.
Yes, it is an opinion, different from yours, but it's mine. Kinda of hard to look it up.
Haha, its not opinion dude, thats like me saying that the Colts are not Superbowl champions, thats not an opinion, its just false.
Eat it Phil...
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Yes, that would be hard to do since the Colts actually won the game on the field.
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Yes, that would be hard to do since the Colts actually won the game on the field.
ok... LSU never beat the best team in the nation... why should they have won the national championship without beating USC?
<><
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LSU wasn't given the chance,...that's not their fault. The system said LSU and Okie were 1 & 2, that's who played. Not my problem. USC had a much weaker SOS that year and got left out. According to the system -- and don't get me wrong, I don't like it any better than anyone else -- in place at the time, those were the two teams that got to play for the title. Any result outside of that game, to me is an abortion. My opinion. Why is that so hard to understand ?? It's MY opinion.
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because you're saying that's the only national championship... which is wrong... it's your opinion, but it's still wrong
<><
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And that's the whole deal,...I never said it's the only one. It's just my opinion that it's the only one I recognize. l like the BCS; it makes EVERY Saturday, and the result of virtually EVERY game in college football count for something, unlike the antiquated, outdated, obsolete bowl and poll systems, where ALL champions. including Ohio State's are layed out on parchment.
I'd rather have played Florida last year and gotten my ass kicked than gone to the Rose Bowl and lost, just so USC and Florida could split more paper,...
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And that's the whole deal,...I never said it's the only one. It's just my opinion that it's the only one I recognize.
You not recognizing it is not an opinion bud, its called being wrong, or uninformed.
Eat it Phil...
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Again, you're telling me I'm not entitled to my opinion, and I will repeat again that I respect yours. You don't like my opinion, you don't honor my opinion, it might be a wrong opinion. But you cannot tell me it's not mine or that it doesn't exist just because you say so.
LSU, National Champion, 2003.
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And that's the whole deal,...I never said it's the only one. It's just my opinion that it's the only one I recognize.
You not recognizing it is not an opinion bud, its called being wrong, or uninformed.
You seem to be the only one who is concerned that I might be wrong or uninformed. Sure do appreciate your helpfulness.
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Muni, Ohio State deserves a spot in the title game if they go undefeated? Even 2 of these teams... LSU, USC, Florida, West Virgina, and Oklahoma go undefeated as well? What do you base that opinion on? All 5 of those teams play a tougher schedule than Ohio State, and are currently ranked ahead of Ohio State. Let's say 2 of those teams, and Ohio State goes undefeated, Ohio State deserves to be left out, whether you care to admit it or not.
Uhh bro, The Big 10 is just as good as the SEC as far as competition. In case you didn't notice, the Big Ten has 3 teams in the top 10 right now -Ohio State, Penn State, and Wisconsin, whereas the SEC has two teams in the top 5. How in the world can you say that USC, Florida, LSU, West Virginia, Texas, Oklahoma have harder schedules than Ohio State? In case you didn't notice, Ohio State has to play Penn State, Wisconsin, and a Michigan team that is dangerous when it finds it footing. How in the world does West Virginia's, or USC's schedule look harder than Ohio State's?
Right now, if USC goes undefeated, and if the winner of the LSU/Florida game goes undefeated, then cool, let them play in the BCS title game. But, if any team from the Big Ten goes undefeated, plenty of people (including myself) will consider this a split national championship. If Ohio State goes undefeated, regardless of the bowl they play in, it will be celebrated across Ohio as a national championship, as it should be.
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If Ohio State goes undefeated, regardless of the bowl they play in, it will be celebrated across Ohio as a national championship, as it should be.
Dude, you must get the good stuff man. Man I wish I was in college again.
Eat it Phil...
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Who has Penn State played? Who has Wisconsin played? Who has Ohio State played? None of these teams are very good. Penn State is the best team in the Big Ten, and they are very likely to lose this week to Michigan, as is Wisconsin to Iowa.
You have to be the biggest homer I've ever seen. Any two of these undefeated teams should get in over OSU... LSU, Florida, USC, WVU, Oklahoma.
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