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I want the playoffs this year, but with this start I will be ok with 8-8, if its better I will be ecstatic ... GO BROWNS

Good post. And I don't want to be a jerk, but I wasn't one of the ones who was going ga-ga over this team this off-season. I even took quite a bit of heat over some of my comments about some of our question marks. I will admit that I thought we would be better than what we have looked, though.

I just hope we don't do dumb things like fire the coach, replace the qb, make dumb trades that costs us high draft picks, etc.

It's a process.

Yeah, I’d say 8-8 would be about where we’ll fall as of now. Our consistency and cohesiveness is just not there quick enough

I agree, though I'm still hoping for 9-7...

We need to keep firing people until we achieve a good level of continuity.

I still think Freddie is going to be good if we can hang in.. if we are still talking about the same kind of blunders this time next year, I will probably change my mind.

Don't know about anybody else but 4 times in my career, at different levels since college, I have been in a position where I worked closely with my boss, I knew and understood their job.. each time my boss got promoted or left and I was put into their position and all 4 times I learned that I did NOT fully understand their job.. I knew a lot of it but not all of it... and when things were moving fast, I would get anxious and need help or make mistakes as I learned.. that's life. That's where Freddie is.. Just as the game slows down for QBs after a while, I have to imagine the same thing happens for coaches...

We have the luxury of hindsight (and not being accountable).. we see a coach run a fancy play that works and think he's a genius.. we see one run a fancy play that doesn't work and wonder why they didn't just stick with what was working..

Some harping on how we've played and how we aren't good enough to win 5 games this season...

There's also the flip side and it all comes together and there's no reason to believe we couldn't win the next 8 games.

Other than the Patriots, the Bills whom we play at home is the only other team to have won more than 2 games...

It’s just bad luck to play the Rams, Ravens, Niners, Seahawks, Patriots all in a row

There is no room for thinking like this.

One of the dumbest things I've ever read on here.

J/C
Just a question. This isn't to make excuses for Freddie, but how is discipline, as in stupid fouls a coaching problem?

He has said they don't coach penalties. I believe him. I don't think any coaching staff does.

What should he do...bench his better players? Go Mangini on them and have the team running gassers?

To me, at some point it is up to the player(s)

What should Freddie do? How do you coach a player to not jump offsides?

As a former coach, I actually think the penalty thing is one of the biggest things you can control. No doubt about that. I supported Hue, but his teams were undisciplined. Too many penalties. Same w/Freddie.

This is going to come across as bragging and I will take grief for it, but I am only bringing it up to answer your question.

Our high school team went an entire year w/out one single false start, illegal motion, offsides, lined up in the neutral zone, etc. We had some other penalties like PI, late hits, Unnecessary Roughness, etc....but we did not have one single dead ball penalty. Why? Well, we had smart, dedicated players to start with. But, we practiced it daily.

During conditioning, instead of just blowing a whistle to start the ladders, gasers, etc.....we went on a snap count. I would purposely try to trick them by staggering the count. If we left too early, the entire team would run another conditioning drill. During practice, if you committed a dead ball penalty, you were going to spend time w/me after practice. Furthermore, it was a constant point of emphasis. I mean...........every play of every practice. We were NOT going to beat ourselves.

You might say that a coach in the NFL can't make players run and you might be right. I don't know. The game is kind of a joke right now. But, he can hit him where it hurts more. The wallet.

I have long been a proponent of not doing anything to beat yourself because it's a fact that others are trying to beat you. They might be us, but we won't beat us. It's a mindset, peen.

Legitimate serious question...

What percentage or how much would you say penalties fall on coaching? As opposed to saying these guys are professionals and should know the rules and how the game is played?

Coaching can get you 80% of the way there, but at some point it comes down to the players, period.

You will only be as good as the standards to which you hold yourself.
We've had lines in the past that took great pride in not having penalties and the guys instituted their own fine jar that they all paid into.... self accountability is the BIGGEST factor there is.

I've said for years and years penalties and discipline are a reflection of coaching. What % ??? idk - 80% or more.

You only have to look at last year - Hue fired, GW inserted as interim HC. What happened to the penalties immediately?

Just went to check. 1st eight games last year - 65 penalties. ..... last eight games of last year - 41 penalties. That's a pretty significant and immediate difference. Hue with over 50% more penalties.

I really don't know. I hate not answering because it is a legit questions and you and I have battled so much, thus I want to answer just to be friendly. But, I really can't say.

All I know is that when I was coaching, I placed a huge emphasis on not beating ourselves. Dude, I was obsessed about it. It was emphasized on every freaking play we ran in practice. Don't get me wrong...........it was not always the focal point, not even close........but, mental errors were not tolerated.

I used to say this to my guys........."It's fourth and goal and we are down by 5 or 6 w/time running out and we have a perfect play call that results in a game-winning TD, do you really think it's okay to have commit a penalty because you are not mentally disciplined enough?" I always wanted mentally disciplined players. You gotta coach that up. I can't coach 4.4 40 speed. I can't coach your height. I can coach you on technique, discipline, and mental toughness. There is more to that, but that's a different discussion.

Again, sorry for not really answering, but I really don't know the percentage. I just dealt w/what I did know. Don't commit dead ball penalties.

Thanks. Good answer.

I firmly believe coaching plays a factor but you hear all the time "these guys are professionals."

My thought is that the majority is on coaching whether that's 60%, 80%, whatever the case may be.

In case you were wondering, I'm not a coach.

I like stating everything on a snap count. Nice touch.

As you said, no doubt the coaching accounts for a large amount. As has been discussed, it's hard to place a percentage on things. Even at the pro level it has to be a fairly large number.

I don't know, I could be wrong, but I think it is easier to coach a high school player, or even a college player. Coaches have way more control over those guys, and that isn't saying what you did was easy. Good job my man.

As Freddie said, they don't practice penalties, and I believe that.

Yeah, I think there is no doubt about that.

Only bonus to coaching professionals: the issues with parents aren’t present haha

LOL. Another way to look at coaching in the pros is.....you are coaching the parents.

And maybe what you mentioned is part of the problem. As a coach you seemed to have certainly put at least part of your emphasis on penalties. That is a crucial part of building a foundation for those players. That's in the early stages of a players development.

For players who did not receive that emphasis from their coaches, that foundation simply isn't there.

IMO it's far easier to mold a young player and instill good habits. Once a player has reached the professional level, it's much harder to correct a pattern that has been ingrained in them over a period of many years.

In my experience HS level coaches aren't going to discuss decisions on play time etc with parents. That is between the player and the coach.

haha yeah, that’s typically the protocol. But it doesn’t stop parents from trying with administration. And it doesn’t stop parents from conspiring together.

Players are rarely the problem at that level

I think you touched on something very important.. it's not just "penalties" it's mental errors.

My old baseball coaches preached this time and again.. if you booted a hard hit ground ball, you got a "Get it next time, keep your head down".. if you fielded it cleanly and threw it to the wrong base, you were running until you puked.. (A bit of an exaggeration but you get the point)..

If you are hand-fighting with a WR and get called for PI, that happens.. if you are lined up in the wrong spot or jump offsides or have to grab a guys jersey as he goes by you because you were out of position, that's a MENTAL ERROR. Not every penalty is a mental error.

We need to eliminate the ones that are. In football it's hard, you want them to play "clean" but you can't make it so bad that you end up killing their aggressiveness because they are too afraid to make a penalty.

They shouldn't.

But your post reminded me of a volleyball in this area - no, not our school - that literally had 2 players do "rock paper, scissors" to see which one would start.





Different subject: In h.s., our football coach used punishment for penalties. The punishment? After practice on Mondays, 50 yards of what they called "Bear Crawls" for each penalty an individual had (Hands and feet on the ground. Not knees - hands and feet.)

It seemed to work.

Those sucked.

The Browns had a HC flip a coin to decide which QB would start once.

coin flips and gut feelings

A win at NE will be the beginning of a run to the division Title

From your lips to God's ears my brother.. but of all the games left this one scares me the most. Not just because New England is always good and typically doesn't beat themselves.. (while we do)..

But Belichick has a history of making even the best QBs look pedestrian and confused... and Baker is going in there already a little uncertain, struggling to read complex defenses, and confused.. those who go into this game already not liking Baker might come out of it wanting him cut immediately..

I hope I'm wrong, but I think all of the stuff he has struggled with to date going to be magnified in this one game.

Patriots Vs Browns Series Record Browns Lead Series 13-11 although NE has won 8 out of last 10 ...

H 2016/10/09 Cleveland Browns 13 - New England Patriots 33 L
A 2013/12/08 Cleveland Browns 26 - New England Patriots 27 L
H 2010/11/07 Cleveland Browns 34 - New England Patriots 14 W
A 2007/10/07 Cleveland Browns 17 - New England Patriots 34 L
H 2004/12/05 Cleveland Browns 15 - New England Patriots 42 L
A 2003/10/26 Cleveland Browns 3 - New England Patriots 9 L
A 2001/12/09 Cleveland Browns 16 - New England Patriots 27 L
H 2000/11/12 Cleveland Browns 19 - New England Patriots 11 W
H 1999/10/03 Cleveland Browns 7 - New England Patriots 19 L
A 1995/09/03 Cleveland Browns 14 - New England Patriots 17 L
H 1995/01/01 Cleveland Browns 20 - New England Patriots 13 W !! AFC WILDCARD !!
H 1994/11/06 Cleveland Browns 13 - New England Patriots 6 W
H 1993/12/19 Cleveland Browns 17 - New England Patriots 20 L
A 1992/10/25 Cleveland Browns 19 - New England Patriots 17 W
A 1991/09/08 Cleveland Browns 20 - New England Patriots 0 W
A 1987/10/04 Cleveland Browns 20 - New England Patriots 10 W
H 1985/10/06 Cleveland Browns 24 - New England Patriots 20 W
H 1984/10/07 Cleveland Browns 16 - New England Patriots 17 L
A 1983/11/20 Cleveland Browns 30 - New England Patriots 0 W
H 1982/11/21 Cleveland Browns 10 - New England Patriots 7 W
A 1980/09/07 Cleveland Browns 17 - New England Patriots 34 L
H 1977/09/26 Cleveland Browns 30 - New England Patriots 27 OT W
A 1974/11/10 Cleveland Browns 21 - New England Patriots 14 W
H 1971/11/21 Cleveland Browns 27 - New England Patriots 7 W

There was a stretch when we really did well against NE

I remember the 2010 game.. that's when many decided that Colt McCoy had come of age and he was our future.

Remember the 2013 Game 27-26 when NE score twice in the last 2 minutes and had a successful (Choke a little) onside kick ...

I was at that game. That was the game Gordon went off and TJ Ward blew out Gronk's knee.

I distinctly remembering telling all the pink hat wearing fairweather Pats fans that the games was far from over when we were up 26-14 with just under 3 minutes left. Sure as sh#(#@(!

ugh, thanks for the reminder lol

Well, let's not forget the 44 yards in penalties during the last minute including a bs Unsportsmanlike call and a blind man's PI call that gave the Pats a 1st and goal at the 1.

LOL, Keep grasping at straws.....

2-5

I think we have a rea good chance. We usually play close.


Bring pressure in to Brady's face and he gets flustered, a few roughing the passer calls wouldn't bother me.

Put some grass stains on the guy and he is a different QB.

Agreed, 100%. I've seen it quite a few times. Some of those times were actually by us.

He becomes very- ordinary when a team can keep him from establishing a rhythm. Rough him up. Get him off his spots. Make him throw under duress. Do this, and we can win v. Pats. Let him get comfy and he'll shred us to ribbons.

I agree that Brady doesn't like pressure up the middle. Also, New England's OL is about as bad as any OL in the entire league right now. The concern is that Brady gets rid of the ball so fast. He reads the coverage so quickly. And his experience allows him to make a good pre-snap read.

Thus, I think our coverage is going to have to be very good in order for us to get some pressure on him. Hopefully, Ward and Greedy are back and Wilks does a good job of calling his coverages.