DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Rush to Judgement

Guilty as charged. I believe Baker will be a fine NFL qb maybe great, but he’s going to go thru coaching changes eventually. IMO Freddie was the wrong choice based on our defensive performance alone. His offense play calling is questionable by calling Baker to force it to OBJ trick plays and not using all the guns. And finally taking points off the board by throwing a red flag on a questionable call that couldn’t be overturned is inexcusable.

So people did the typical Browns thing and blamed the LT.

Yes, blaming the LT has traditionally been the thing around here.

It is this time.

That's not "typical". That's, as you quite correctly say, and I can help you out here by emphasizing it...."this time".

Actually trying to find someone else to blame for obvious problems has been typical.

Blaming the LT position? No, that's a new twist on a tried and true tradition.

Sports fans are fickle. Cheer someone one minute and boo them the next.

One of the judgments I have is Dorsey promoting Kitchens. Should've hired experienced HC instead of a person learning the job. Went out a got all this talent and might have blown it regarding the head coaching position.

I'm not saying you are wrong or that opinion doesn't have merit...however...Monken and Wilks and Pfeiffer sp?) all have a lot of experience. The thought process was to surround the rookie HC with a lot of experience. That's not a bad plan.

The problem may actually be that the experienced coaches are/is not the right guys. See Wilks and his insistence on his scheme that puts man-cover CBs in zone and somehow can't get Avery on the field despite the backup DEs essentially being MIA.

Wilks has been fine.
Preifer has been fine.
Monken has a very good track record as an OC, but since he is not calling plays, who knows?
Kitchens has been a problem, both in play calling and game management.

That's my take on the coaches.

I've actually never said this, but it's typical for you to make things up. That's been your MO for quite some time now.

It's a shame some on here have to resort to bullying in order to flex their muscles instead of honest to goodness debate and discussion.

Ive been in "the offensive line is not necessarily the problem" camp from day 1. We have the same o-line minus zeitler as last year. I do think the tackles are the weak link and obviously the browns think that as well.

I've said Baker is not the same as last year and he's not void of blame. But those thoughts that we will need to draft another quarterback in a year are just absurd. Baker is THE franchise quarterback. His play has been disappointing but he's not going anywhere.

What is comical is the amount of people who blame Baker and laugh at any notion that there are other things wrong with the team. Nope, nothing wrong with the Oline, nothing wrong with the coaching, nothing wrong with the defense...if we had any other quarterback than Baker we'd be 6-0.

Guessing those are the same people who thought we lacked talent to win a game before Dorsey arrived.

My point in all of this is we don't have anyone better on this roster to play LT. We have both been big on the OL for many, many years now. So I certainly would never say we have good OT's.

The problem is that the team hitched their wagons to Robinson this season and there isn't an upgrade on the roster. We will certainly see the evidence of that today against the Patriots. We had the exact same OT's so far this season as we did when we won all of those games the last half of last season.

So you would never hear me complain about upgrades to both our OT positions. But that's not what I see happening here.

Is it still a rush of judgment to blame Freddie?

Once again, we look inconsistent and laughable.

You can’t evaluate anyone on offense due to this asinine scheme he continues to run.

Fire Freddie Kitchens.

I agree wth the first 3 lines of your post. Initially I wasn't going to "like" it though because I'm not at a point to call for his firing.

But then I listened to his presser and while I'm still not calling for his firing at this point, I am so over Freddie Kitchens. He has ZEROOOOOOO plan for reducing the number of penalties each game. He hardly ever takes responsibility and when he does, he tries to pass it off as some sort of brave, bold, courageous move because he's an "aggressive" play caller that just didn't 'happen' to work.

Listening to him ramble is like listening to a low-rent, cranky-because-the-Thanksgiving Day-10-leg-turkey-was-missing-a-leg John Madden.

I don't care about his learning curve. If his curve is this steep he doesn't deserve the job. Some of you Dawgs are more patient than I, and you should be commended for that. But I don't make Game Day a priority because I want to watch the Education of Freddie Kitchens. We're heading for a sub .500 season because even though the back half of the schedule is supposed to be easier, the fact that this team can't get it's act together is only going to embolden those opponents.

At the halfway point there's no rush to judgment. Its pretty much what you see is what you're gonna get at this point.

Two questions devil, though one does not pertain to your post. First what specifically are the coaches to do to curtail penalties?? I know they preached thru camp that penalties are not acceptable but what do they do when penalties continue to happen. Bench them? Fine them??(not sure they can even do that). But it seems to me that the careless penalties are on the player not the coaches.

Second, does anyone know if we have a coach in the booth to advise coach on throwing challenge flag. It seemed like both our challenges were ill advised.

Have we seen considerable change? How about improvement week over week? Have you seen any consistent similarities from one loss to the next? Those questions sound rhetorical and cynical, but I didn't intend them to be. We just should expect more of the same. Fumbles, penalties, tackling. All are mental metrics. We are not mentally tough enough by far at present, nor seemingly game ready, not much and not enough. Have you seen much adjustment in game plans? Play selection?

Let's see Monken some. He can call Chubb up the middle OK. This seems too big for FK. And the trend is down, not up IMO. Pressers about what we have to do are laughable. Do your job. Who is not?

I had no problem with the first challenge. I didn't think we were going to win it but our defense was on it's heels and could have used the time out.. so might as well take a chance.

The second one was ill-advised. I've even heard refs comment that on ball spot challenges, unless they can move it almost a full yard, they aren't moving it. Challenging them to move it inches is never going to work. (Well, maybe a goal line)

j/c...

Third after DET and HOU. Oddly enough, lots of people think Patricia and O'Brien are pretty bad coaches too.

What's even more odd, is they are both from the Belichek coaching tree.

Bill B. benches any player who fumbles too much, at least for a period of time. Same with someone who commits too many penalties. There is discipline on the Pats unlike with us. I like Freddie and at the time thought he was a good hire but now I'm not so sure. I don't think it would be a good idea to replace him now but that's JMO. Maybe JD should sit him down and tell him to delegate more of the responsibilities. Local sports talk where I am was questioning what the players in our locker room think of Freddie. They came to the conclusion he may be liked as a person but not as a coach. That lack of repect for him as a coach could be why we see no improvement.

1. Practice and training... clearly penalties are a sign that you are not giving it all in practice.

Its also a question of lack of concentration, which is a sign of bad coaching.

Penalties are extremely toxic for teams, nobody likes a good play to be reverted because of a player error, specially players.

All in all , it does not look good for Kitchens...

Honestly, I think its inexcusable since game 1... he should have been replaced then.

I'm not losing my mind over this one yet. I'm totally comfortable with Freddie getting canned if he does but I'm not sure that's going to fix the Team.

They know what's wrong. They need to address the problem. And for the most part the problem is mental errors that a pro should not be making, ever. I suppose that does come down to coaching but you can only yell at a pro so long before he just tunes you out and texts his stock broker.

I'm content to see what happens with the rest of the season. They've had a stretch of very tough opponents and at times were actually in the game until they checked out mentally. At best the Browns are a middle of the pack team this year. It remains to be seen if Freddie and Mayfield can take it to the next level.

You get other people to show discipline, by being disciplined yourself, not by yelling, that does not accomplish anything.

You show discipline by preparing yourself and working harder on the little things. Always being at 100% and always concentrated.

Freddie can be a great guy, but the way the off season went, the way the pre-season went, and then the first game we played, showed all we needed to know about him. He is not cut to be a HC, not even OC.

Correction to previously posted tweet...

I don't care if you tell the other team the play before hand, if you execute your job better than the guy in front of you, then your going to have a successful outcome.

What the 49ers and Ravens are doing is the epitome of predictability. They are gong to run the crap out of the ball and down your throat until you force them not too. But because of how they are prepared and play, its much easier said than done.

Same goes for NE. I have never seen this wonder lust offense or insane out of this world game plan that is godly as far scheme goes. But their preparation, attention to details, and execution of even the simplest of plays, is what leads to their success.

Take the screen play that broke our back yesterday on a 3-10. set up beautifully. nothing crazy but a well executed play.

The title of this thread makes me think of the "jump to conclusions" mat in Office Space.

don't forget about a lot more payroll to show for all that . . . .

We're actually spending less cash on players this year compared to last year.

I find that hard to believe, unless other teams are footing a lot of players we traded for salaries, because Odell, Olivier, Jarvis, and Sheldon are making if im not mistaken 56 between just them.

We paid a lot of bonuses to Baker, Landry, and Ward last year. We also had Tyrod Taylor on the hook for $16 million and Jamie Collins for over $11 million.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/cash/2018/

seriously? the only person who cares about cash is the owner.

everyone else cares about cap.

last year $177,200,000
this year $188,200,000

Total last year $182,046,964
Total this year $211,910,237


were about 23 mill more in cap. (as of today)

The last 5 teams we have played, since beating the Jets and getting to 1-1, have a combined record of 31-7... Our next 9 games are against teams with a current combined record of 19-38....

This team needs to get a few wins, get some confidence back, and see how far they can go... what the scheduling god's did to us is brutal.

Steven a Smith is going off about the Browns LOL http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=27949656

this may be the funniest video I have seen from him.

Here is what I see and this isn't something new to me.

I see a coach that has a stacked group of players loaded with talent and he is failing with that talent.

Penalties are a by product of poor coaching, period.

This team needs and has needed strong leadership, IMO its easy to say now but the Browns should have went with an experienced HC given their history.

Non of this means FK can't turn things around he can, and he needs too.

Baker needs to put his head down and go to work, real work, and some of what he needs to do is start spreading the ball around its what worked a year ago and it will work now. OB will get his touches but he cannot be the soul focus of Baker. Team 1st, period.

I see an undisciplined team that repeats the same mistakes over and over, thats coaching sorry it simply is.

FK was handed a 10-12 win team and he isn't producing.

The schedule was tough to this point, I get that still this team has the talent.

I will remain patient but both eyes are on FK he needs to make some real improvement and quickly.

JMHO

I didn't find anything funny about it because it was PURE FACT.

Tom Smykowski's million dollar idea!