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It wasn't Baker's fault...period.
Specifically, #67 Left OT was pulling to the right and his left arm hit #75 as the Left OT passed behind Left OG. It obstructed Bitonio's block just enough to keep him from making a good block, getting his head in front of the pass rusher instead of behind the DE.
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It's a stupid play call when the sun is shining. That makes it a really stupid play call in the rain with an unproven LT against a top D.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Well, Baker did it and was INTERCEPTED when we had 2 fumbles before, 0-10 against the best D in the league. Do you see now how stupid it was? This was worst than the Kizer sneak... and that was stupid hahaah you literally just admitted that entire beef is the play call. That its stupid to have run that play after 2 fumbles (which were not bakers fault as you tried to hint earlier). You realize that baker doesn't call the plays, right?
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Cal...just like any play, if everyone does their job, that play goes for good yardage. The weather was not a factor unless the players allow the weather to be a factor. Baker did not fumble the snap and was able to make the toss.
It was the penetration of the DE who blew the play up.
Hindsight: common sense..if the play had not been practiced enough with this personnel group, I would not run the play. But, without knowing how many times that play was practiced by this group, it's hard to say it was a bad call.
Had Bitonio been able to get a clean block on #83, the play could have gone for good yardage.
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Cal...just like any play, if everyone does their job, that play goes for good yardage. The weather was not a factor unless the players allow the weather to be a factor. Baker did not fumble the snap and was able to make the toss.
It was the penetration of the DE who blew the play up.
Hindsight: common sense..if the play had not been practiced enough with this personnel group, I would not run the play. But, without knowing how many times that play was practiced by this group, it's hard to say it was a bad call.
Had Bitonio been able to get a clean block on #83, the play could have gone for good yardage.
Its a play we have run before, a few times. Even have scored on it in the past. I would say we have practiced it a good deal.
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It's a stupid play call when the sun is shining. That makes it a really stupid play call in the rain with an unproven LT against a top D. Was it stupid when we ran it against Balt and Jarvis took it to the house for like 20+ yards?
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Cal...just like any play, if everyone does their job, that play goes for good yardage. The weather was not a factor unless the players allow the weather to be a factor. Baker did not fumble the snap and was able to make the toss.
It was the penetration of the DE who blew the play up.
Hindsight: common sense..if the play had not been practiced enough with this personnel group, I would not run the play. But, without knowing how many times that play was practiced by this group, it's hard to say it was a bad call.
Had Bitonio been able to get a clean block on #83, the play could have gone for good yardage.
Its a play we have run before, a few times. Even have scored on it in the past. I would say we have practiced it a good deal.
It was definitely the timing between the L-OT and L-OG that caused the play to fail.
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When a play is executed properly the fans love it. When it fails the fans hate it. And the noose so many are holding right now always has to point a finger somewhere.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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When a play is executed properly the fans love it. When it fails the fans hate it. And the noose so many are holding right now always has to point a finger somewhere. +1 Agree. Every play, there are 11 guys that need to do their part for it to be a successful play. Some plays, a few guys do their part, but others don't and it doesn't work out. This was one of those plays. I have been hard on Baker and Freddie since the season started. They have been HOT GARBAGE. But this play is a staple for us, and has been used successfully before. Baker did his job, someone on the line did not.
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Cal...just like any play, if everyone does their job, that play goes for good yardage. The weather was not a factor unless the players allow the weather to be a factor. Baker did not fumble the snap and was able to make the toss.
It was the penetration of the DE who blew the play up.
Hindsight: common sense..if the play had not been practiced enough with this personnel group, I would not run the play. But, without knowing how many times that play was practiced by this group, it's hard to say it was a bad call.
Had Bitonio been able to get a clean block on #83, the play could have gone for good yardage.
Its a play we have run before, a few times. Even have scored on it in the past. I would say we have practiced it a good deal.
It was definitely the timing between the L-OT and L-OG that caused the play to fail. The only thing I know, is that someone on the line failed. But hey, some are going to hang the qb and / or coach simply for personal reasons
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Baker isn't a good QB. The only guys who play like what we see now that did what Mayfield did last year are flash in the pans...been many flash in the pan NFL QB..Scott Mitchell, Rick Mirer, Don Majkowski, Steve Buerlein, Derek Anderson, I could continue but im sure you get the point now.
watch the film last year, Mayfield was only asked to look at half the field, he was literally one read and throw the ball. Mayfield is nothing more than an RPO QB and the RPO isn't something you can base your O around in the NFL because its mostly one read. You can use a few RPO concepts here and there, but if your not under center, 3 step drop, 5 step drop, timing routes, you won't make it in the NFL. Mayfield is beyond awful in these areas.
He has never had to actually "read" a Defense before. This kid is more lost right now than Deshone Kizer. Infact i'd rather have Kizer...Mayfield posted a QBR of 13....13 for FFS! That worse than any QBR Kizer posted in 2017 season. Yet Kizer who was a 2nd rd pick gets crucified, yet Faker Pickfield is given a pass for this absolute garbage we see.
The Mayfield pick is looking like a big mistake. The more I look at it, the more I think Dorsey blew the 2018 NFL draft. No one else was taking Mayfield in the top 5, if he really wanted him, he could have taken him at #4. We should have taken either Barkley(the BPA who won NFL rookie of the year) or moved down a few spots for more picks. Yes I would have taken both Barkley and Chubb in the same draft and ran the wheels off both of them. It easy to find a QB when you have a running game like you would have had with both Chubb and Barkley, passing becomes childsplay then, everyone is wide open when you have that kinda threat to run.
the Browns got typical and outsmarted themselves, they kneejerked...instead of being calm and simply taking the best damn player in the entire draft, they reached...Sashi Brown got it right taking Garret...he is in his 3rd year of Pro Bowl caliber play which is what you expect from a #1 overall pick...Mayfield wasn't even the best QB in this draft on many charts...we would have been better off with either Darnold or Josh Allen...Allen would have required more patience, but he is far more physically gifted than Mayfield..a big tall athletic guy with a big arm...he has Big Ben written all over him, and he is humble and coachable...what more could you ask for...
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what more could you ask for. A completion on a deep ball.
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Cal...just like any play, if everyone does their job, that play goes for good yardage. The weather was not a factor unless the players allow the weather to be a factor. Baker did not fumble the snap and was able to make the toss.
It was the penetration of the DE who blew the play up.
Hindsight: common sense..if the play had not been practiced enough with this personnel group, I would not run the play. But, without knowing how many times that play was practiced by this group, it's hard to say it was a bad call.
Had Bitonio been able to get a clean block on #83, the play could have gone for good yardage.
Its a play we have run before, a few times. Even have scored on it in the past. I would say we have practiced it a good deal.
It was definitely the timing between the L-OT and L-OG that caused the play to fail. Here is the play. You can drag it and play in slow motion as well...
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KofB...Browns’ Baker Mayfield was top QB for at least six other teams
link
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Well it is true that Baker woke up feeling dangerous from time to time. The problem is that it happened last season and not this season.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Cal...just like any play, if everyone does their job, that play goes for good yardage. The weather was not a factor unless the players allow the weather to be a factor. Baker did not fumble the snap and was able to make the toss.
It was the penetration of the DE who blew the play up.
Hindsight: common sense..if the play had not been practiced enough with this personnel group, I would not run the play. But, without knowing how many times that play was practiced by this group, it's hard to say it was a bad call.
Had Bitonio been able to get a clean block on #83, the play could have gone for good yardage.
Its a play we have run before, a few times. Even have scored on it in the past. I would say we have practiced it a good deal.
It was definitely the timing between the L-OT and L-OG that caused the play to fail. Here is the play. You can drag it and play in slow motion as well...
Blew it up full screen (24") and replayed it several times at 0.25 speed.
Timing between LT and LG was the problem.
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Well it is true that Baker woke up feeling dangerous from time to time. The problem is that it happened last season and not this season.
At the core of the Browns offensive problems...the O-Line.
I just checked and the Browns have not traded for Redskins LT yet. I hope they don't so they can draft the best LT and RT in the draft.
Second hand OTs are second hand for a reason.
Last edited by mac; 10/29/19 03:51 PM.
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There has been one change on the entire OL since last season. As you may notice, the mix up in this play didn't involve Kush.
But it is kind of cool having a G named Kush.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I think we need tougher coaches around Baker. They’ve been letting him get away with sloppy mechanics all season.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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There has been one change on the entire OL since last season. As you may notice, the mix up in this play didn't involve Kush.
But it is kind of cool having a G named Kush.
Both of the Browns OTs are marginal starters at the NFL level. It took Robinson half the season to take over the LT job and he did play ok.
I wrote about Robinson and his need to come in to training camp at 315-320 to improve his play this season. I don't know exactly what the guy weighs but he looks slow, out of shape at times. In short, Robinson is a big disappointment...
Hubbard is a marginal starter at the OT position, imo.
OLine coaches like certain types of linemen and the Browns OTs might not measure up.
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Given that both of our OTs were backups in the places we got them, and not good ones at that, it's a safe bet that we've wrung all the usefulness from them that we can and need shiny new ones.
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... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I'd be good if our whole draft was oline next year.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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In 2017 Hubbard did start 10 games for the Steelers before the Browns signed him last season when he started all 16 games.
That said, with the speed of DEs and LBers, your OTs better have the quickness to match up. Both of the present Browns OTs are slow and struggle with speed rushers and blitzes.
Teams that have OLines that struggle to protect the QB usually have QB issues such as poor performance and injuries.
The Browns need to pay the price to draft two OTs capable of starting as rookies, imo.
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We need a new head coach.
If we do not win 7 of our remaining games, Freddy is a goner.
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Lousy feet way too often. Anecdotal, but it is sincere. Our OTs are not getting it done. Solid backups, maybe. NFL elite. No.
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I'm pretty sure he was the backup starting due to injury - and he didn't do that stellar of a job. So, yes, he started 10, but he wasn't a starter.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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ridiculous — Kizer was absolutely terrible. A turnover machine. He had twice as many picks as he had TDs the season he was here
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"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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As soon as Robinson got that new contract he did seem to gain weight. He looks much bigger than he did last year
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Baker isn't a good QB. The only guys who play like what we see now that did what Mayfield did last year are flash in the pans...been many flash in the pan NFL QB..Scott Mitchell, Rick Mirer, Don Majkowski, Steve Buerlein, Derek Anderson, I could continue but im sure you get the point now.
watch the film last year, Mayfield was only asked to look at half the field, he was literally one read and throw the ball. Mayfield is nothing more than an RPO QB and the RPO isn't something you can base your O around in the NFL because its mostly one read. You can use a few RPO concepts here and there, but if your not under center, 3 step drop, 5 step drop, timing routes, you won't make it in the NFL. Mayfield is beyond awful in these areas.
He has never had to actually "read" a Defense before. This kid is more lost right now than Deshone Kizer. Infact i'd rather have Kizer...Mayfield posted a QBR of 13....13 for FFS! That worse than any QBR Kizer posted in 2017 season. Yet Kizer who was a 2nd rd pick gets crucified, yet Faker Pickfield is given a pass for this absolute garbage we see.
The Mayfield pick is looking like a big mistake. The more I look at it, the more I think Dorsey blew the 2018 NFL draft. No one else was taking Mayfield in the top 5, if he really wanted him, he could have taken him at #4. We should have taken either Barkley(the BPA who won NFL rookie of the year) or moved down a few spots for more picks. Yes I would have taken both Barkley and Chubb in the same draft and ran the wheels off both of them. It easy to find a QB when you have a running game like you would have had with both Chubb and Barkley, passing becomes childsplay then, everyone is wide open when you have that kinda threat to run.
the Browns got typical and outsmarted themselves, they kneejerked...instead of being calm and simply taking the best damn player in the entire draft, they reached...Sashi Brown got it right taking Garret...he is in his 3rd year of Pro Bowl caliber play which is what you expect from a #1 overall pick...Mayfield wasn't even the best QB in this draft on many charts...we would have been better off with either Darnold or Josh Allen...Allen would have required more patience, but he is far more physically gifted than Mayfield..a big tall athletic guy with a big arm...he has Big Ben written all over him, and he is humble and coachable...what more could you ask for...
LOL....why aren't you guys TV analysts? Drew Breeze had a bad 2nd year....
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ridiculous — Kizer was absolutely terrible. A turnover machine. He had twice as many picks as he had TDs the season he was here you mean like baker this year? 6tds to 12 INT
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Baker is going to be fine. Anybody that didn't expect struggles lied to themselves. Nothing going on here that good coaching and time can't fix, unless fans make him want out of Cleveland. His play this year is still better than 50% of the play we've had since the return. A lot of you thought Brian Hoyer was the second coming and I think Baker is much better than Hoyer with a ton more upside.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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ridiculous — Kizer was absolutely terrible. A turnover machine. He had twice as many picks as he had TDs the season he was here No arguing there, Kizer was terrible, he was rattled and mentally unstable. Had a great arm though... You don't accomplish much by insisting on playing young QB's who aren't ready. We should learn from our mistakes. Baker is a complete mental mess, he has no command of the offense, and he is not helping the team. We need a veteran with experience that can calm everyone around and get the levels of panic down.
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Jc
In terms of Keizer, remember how bad he was in the red zone ... it was almost a joke. Of course, Baker’s not much better at the moment
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Baker is a complete mental mess, he has no command of the offense, and he is not helping the team. We need a veteran with experience that can calm everyone around and get the levels of panic down. This is absolutely not true. This thread has gone way off the deep end. I hope it shuts down soon and we don't have to endure another Baker thread.
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Yeah, I don’t think Baker doesn’t understand the offense ... I think he doesn’t understand the defenses he’s seeing and isn’t processing quickly enough.
IMO, we tried putting more on his plate and he wasn’t ready for it, and now his confidence isn’t what it was last year
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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i don't think there is an actual "offense" per se. Like Dilfer said, its a spitball offense..making things up on the fly instead of developing an identity and sticking with it.. Freddie trying to be the smartest guy in room and its hurting development
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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i don't think there is an actual "offense" per se. Like Dilfer said, its a spitball offense..making things up on the fly instead of developing an identity and sticking with it.. Freddie trying to be the smartest guy in room and its hurting development yuup
Joe Thomas #73
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Baker is a complete mental mess, he has no command of the offense, and he is not helping the team. We need a veteran with experience that can calm everyone around and get the levels of panic down. This is absolutely not true. This thread has gone way off the deep end. I hope it shuts down soon and we don't have to endure another Baker thread. Man I do enjoy a personal attack... I'm under your skin.. No baker does not understand the offense, nor command it. He's seeing ghosts has no ability to command respect and accountability. The kid is shi**** in his pants, and we call can see it... Why do you think there are so many offense penalties, false starts, etc.. If he did know our O he wouldn't be missing so many open players... Get a grip dude, when a player is playing like Baker is right now, you just look silly saying stuff to excuse him. He needs to be benched, stop feeling dangerous and start working on his craft. I have nothing against the Kid, and honestly think he has potential, but you groupies make it really hard...
Last edited by rastanplan; 10/30/19 09:46 AM.
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