DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kitchen's not worried about job security.

Freddie is riding his own ego out of town.

If Monken was calling the plays from the beginning and things were going the same way, Freddie would have taken over the play calling by now... but he can't see the same situation in reverse...

He shouldn't be worried about job security.
He should heed his own advice and "Get away from football for awhile" a long while.
And if he were to decide to go deep sea fishing,he should take that Baker fellow with him.He looks like he would make good bait,sharks can smell fear in the water.

Lol leaps and bounds?!

I disagree about the beards. The time spent shaving every day could be better spent on football. Leave the beards alone and dedicate your shaving time to football!

What do we expect him to say?

Freddie has gotten to the point where he just sounds dumb.

Freddie kitchens is more of a clown than OBJs shoes. A QB sneak might have been the right call. BUT IT ONLY WORKS WHEN YOU HAVE YOUR STAR PLAYERS ON THE FIELD THAT THE OPPONENT HAS TO ACCOUNT FOR!

I agree, everyone and their mother knew what play was coming, including the defense. that's why Baker had to go so wide on the sneak, they loaded the middle of the line because they knew the call.

Freddie, the first 8 games do matter. Can you do anything about it now? No. But my man, they most certainly matter.



We talkin' bout practice? Practice?

Freddie is a joke.

Reading those tweets are pure comic genius EXCEPT they are from your head football coach.

Yep, I agree, but he was the one that got away, maybe Beelyache, due to the move, I don't think he would have done in Cleveland what he's done in NE but he may have gotten us a SB by now, at least one.

btw, why can't I see Milk Man's posts? Are you using some kind of magic font? lol

Where's Ballpeen at to defend his boy ?

All I know is in Freddies touted O...Makes our two stud WRs look like MoMass and Brian Robiskie....That is not good.

but, is it Freddie's O making them look that way, or their inability to execute what is being asked of them in Freddie's O that is doing it?

Subtle difference, but all the difference in the world.

Very true PPE, but I'm not sure it's all that subtle, lol I mean it is something that will make all the difference in the world to this offense/team, provided we figure out the answer and I still trust in Dorsey to do just that.

In fact, I truly think it could be a bit of both, Freddy has not always been the best at playcalling and the players have also had issues with execution. Still, if things don't change, it will be Freddy taking the fall.

Wouldn’t that actually be one in the same thing? It’s not like OBJ and Landry are rookies and are having a hard time adapting to the NFL. So if Freddie’s offense is too much, maybe he needs to adjust the scheme to suit their abilities.

Even if it's the players' inability to execute it, then it's on the coach to recognize that and go with something that they CAN run. Not try to force square pegs into round holes. A good coach is one that can take the players he has and make something work for them. A bad coach will keep trying to force the players he has into a system he likes, even if he doesn't have the players for it.

I thought that's what we were getting with Kitchens, as last year he seemed to take what we had and made it work, giving them plays that the team felt they were good at and executing them. This year, he seems to want to force an air-raid system with other crazy wrinkles onto a team that doesn't look like they can do it. We have one of the more prolific backs in the league in Chubb, but rather than center the offense around him, and run lots of play-action to open up the pass, we want to put him on the sideline on key downs, motion out of the backfield, and put Baker on an island, in an offense he's clearly not comfortable with.

good post +10!

Tony Dungy - we should've given him a blank check to start, I'd like to see him coach this talent

After Freddie gets fired he will never be a HC again in the NFL.
It might go down as one of the dumbest HC hires in recent memory.
Was never a HC at any level before but Dorsey
Gives him a job that belongs to only 31 other
Men In the world

If you take the assumption that their inability to execute is a function of the system being too difficult, then I agree with you.

If it is because they aren't putting in the work to inherently & reflexively know things or are not maintaining their focus well enough to be able to execute, then no, it is not a case where things should be simplified for them... they need to do their work to have themselves fully knowing, understanding, and ready to roll with absolutely every aspect of their job in that offense. That's their job.

Pat Shurmer disagrees.

Chud does. (Agrees)

Man , Some of u guys are tough. Blow it all up after half a season and start over.. AGAIN. Many people complaining some of our previous coaches should have been retained and werent given a chance after failing early on and yet want to do the same thing with Freddie. Can we please have some patience ? I've been wainting decades here as well but I know blowing it up every year or two HAS NOT worked. Id rather let him grow into the position and learn. I've yet seen a in game decision that COST us the game. Yes, some of them have been marginal calls and aggressive, but its because he belived in the players to execute the play. He didnt cause the fumbles or tip balls for INTs. Minus A few unlucky breaks and stupid ref calls and we are on the plus side of this record.. RELAX.

And it’s the coaches job to ensure they are doing theirs. So even if one believes Freddie isn’t failing on the scheme part, he’s clearly failing on the player development and accountability part.

I’m not a reactionary person when it comes to FIRE EVERYONE ... yes, I get emotional on game days like a lot of us, but I very rarely state “GET RID OF __________ “ ... but this year is different. IMO, Kitchens has done a horrible job with some real talent. He’s a horrendous head coach

What exactly does this accomplish?

Sorry, but I don’t spend my hard earned money and set aside 3 hours of my life on a weekly basis because I’m intrigued by the Education of Freddie Kitchens. If he’s really that compelling they. An make a Netflix documentary or film Draft Day 2. This roster was built to win now. Freddie was hired to win now. Previous coaches at least had the cover of a poor roster. Freddie doesn’t have that. I don’t expect him to be perfect, none of us do. But the blueprint for success is clear to all of us and he can’t follow it. Nick Chubb has the ability and opportunity to be the Leagues leading rusher. The fact we are 8 games in and an offense that is devoid of an identity still isn’t entered around him is proof Freddie’s priorities are fouled up.

I think it's one thing to be patient, it's another to waste a year or two of football because we already know we have the wrong people in place.

I don't know much about the coaching situation, But!

I have placated my own mind for the past 13 months by telling myself Greg Williams wanted to leave the Browns,.. There was no way they could have convinced him to stay,

But then I hear Bruce Drennan yesterday, and he says Williams' wanted to stay
but they didn't give him an interview.

Oh I don't know,
Remember the 2nd half of last year, it wasn't so bad.

What the truth of the situation is, I don't know,
it's 2-6 now and nobody's getting better week to week.

Listening to Gregg and listening to Freddie interviews are like night and day.

I am also one of those people that resist drastic decisions with all my strength. There is only 1 thing that I hate more than watching a talented, poorly coached team piss away a season, and that's blowing up the whole structure prematurely (and .5 of a season definitely falls w/in my definition of premature).
If we fire Freddie, let's face it, we're totally resetting. OC and DC are gone. Schemes are changing. Even if it was possible for a new HC to come in and keep the guys that are there, how can we expect that person to do that. What have Wilkes and Monkin done to deserve to stick around? Once you throw out coaches, you throw out scheme, and once you throw out scheme, you inevitable throw out some portion of your talent. It's a process we know well.

But there are 2 things that are really giving me pause.

1. From last year (post-Hue) to this year... basically the same players, same offensive guy (Freddie), same playcaller.... but night and day difference. I never would have guessed that swapping out a guy like Williams, and having a guy that was here, under Williams, take his place would yield such a big difference. The discipline/execution issue we're seeing each week is a complicated and multi-faceted problem, but most of those causes point to the head coach.
-Baker's regression
-Oline falling apart
-Penalties
-Stupid mistakes

All these things have multiple root causes, but the main one (imo) is the head coaching position.

2. Freddie's handling of the dumpster fire
Look, everyone makes mistakes. We're human. That's fine...
Even moreso, we knew Freddie would go through some significant OJT. I get that that means we're going to have bumps along the way, and I accepted that, even if I disagreed with the hire. What I can't accept is him basically doubling down on his assinine decisions. Not giving up playcalling. Turning the whole 'square peg meet round hole' theory into an offensive scheme and weekly gameplan. Comments like explaining not running Chubb at the end of the Seattle half because he wanted to score twice (and talking like that was a valid decision)....

Basically, giving every indication that he's not learning from his mistakes is simply not tolerable. Mistakes are a big part of learning, and I was fine with this season being one that our team only started coming together. But I don't see how these mistakes will result in improvements. I see us making the same mistakes over and over (and many of these recurring issues are fixable).


For once, I'm really torn on the idea of making a drastic switch at HC.

Everyone talking about Gregg is not realizing his def just got lit up by Miami, and has looked like hot pooh in NY.

He is so intense, that it brought on serious health concerns at OSU. Coaching the Browns would probably kill him.

The question for me is fairly simple: what is there to gain by waiting until the day after of the last game of the season before firing him?

What is there to lose by waiting? The season is already toast; we're playing for Draft position.

No sense in rewarding poor coordinators with the title of Interim HC, unless it's the Special Teams coach.

I am sick of Freddie and his Schtick. But...

We have 0 credibility in the league
our entire organization is a joke
who are you going to get to come here? Why would they? Do you think having a few players with big names is enough for a guy to want to risk his livihood and being fired after 8 games if they have a bad stretch?

Its the NFL, slumps happen. Expectations are not always met. Job security is utmost important. NFL is not for long, why would you want to go somewhere with the averages are even shorter?

Why would you want to come to a 2-6 team AND have to deal with the personalities on this team?

We are not the golden egg we thought we were in the offseason anymore.

John has a reputation of being hard to work with (which has been reported from his times in KC).

Haslams are a joke, and the most fickle owners in the league.

The weather sucks.

The fans scream for firing the coach every 4 games.

The players just come for a check.

We have to see this through.

It's not his D that had me interested. It was his leadership and discipline that turned this team last year.

Interviews mean nothing. Coaches should give the same answers over and over again.

Listen to a Belichick interview. lol "Uh ... because that's what happened." "We have to do better" "We're on to (next team) ...."

We lose the opportunity to (potentially) show this is a roster worth coaching by the next candidate. We lose the chance to finally introduce the concept of accountability to the players. What’s more effective: canning Freddie mid season for poor performance and then telling the players they’re next? Or canning Freddie after the players have all left to go home for the season therefor distancing themselves from their responsibility of a poor season? If we’re lucky this team will produce and become more attractive.

I don’t see Wilkes or Monken or even Preifer taking over as rewarding them. It’s simply “next man up”.

I think canning Freddie sooner than later also lends a little more credibility to the eventual “we’re willing to do whatever it takes to turn this organization around” . Dorsey would be smart to cut bait now because it’ll give him a few months to get thru the criticism and second guessing. This way it’ll die down before the hiring process versus having all that in the media and simultaneously trying to attract a good HC.