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And Rudolph the instigator got nada! Anyone want to point out what the 3 players fined and suspended have in common, and how the guy that didn't (who started the incident) differs... HMMM
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The instigator is never penalized. That’s normal.
Based on his performance last night, having him play will hurt the Steelers more than sitting him.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Pittsburgh are good at being the bully, throwing the first punch then letting the other team get penalized for retaliating. James Harrison hands down is the dirtiest player I've ever seen - dirtier than Suh.
That said - and regardless of what I want to happen to their players and how much they instigated the incident or made the situation worse once it started - or how much of a total douche Rudolph was after the incident ..... Myles could of killed or seriously wounded Rudolph. It's one of the worst things I think you could ever see on a football field. Getting suspended for the rest of the season is not unfair. I hope he gets over this and shrugs it off - it won't stop me rooting for him or believing that he's a good person.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Garrett suspended indefinitely, minimum rest of season and playoffs. Sounds like this is going into next season also.
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Pittsburgh are good at being the bully, throwing the first punch then letting the other team get penalized for retaliating. James Harrison hands down is the dirtiest player I've ever seen - dirtier than Suh.
That said - and regardless of what I want to happen to their players and how much they instigated the incident or made the situation worse once it started - or how much of a total douche Rudolph was after the incident ..... Myles could of killed or seriously wounded Rudolph. It's one of the worst things I think you could ever see on a football field. Getting suspended for the rest of the season is not unfair. I hope he gets over this and shrugs it off - it won't stop me rooting for him or believing that he's a good person. Mason was the one trying to strip Myles helmet during the tackle... and honestly trying to kill Mason and injure him is seeing way too much... Suspension for the rest of the season is the right punishment,IMHO, has long has Mason gets punished too.
Last edited by rastanplan; 11/15/19 01:30 PM.
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I guess you do not believe in mitigating or extenuating circumstances... Common Mitigating Circumstances Because many situations may be considered mitigating factors, there is no list set by law. Commonly used mitigating factors include: - Defendant’s Age – whether the defendant was an adult or minor at the time of the crime. - irrelevant as both are adults
- Mental capacity – such as the defendant’s intellectual disability, or mental state at the time of the crime.
- History of Abuse – whether the defendant has a history of being abused. - Garrett was choked and held for most of the game.
- No Criminal Record – this usually refers to a criminal history as an adult, but very serious offenses as a minor may be considered an aggravating circumstance. - Essentially a history...of which Garrett has none
- Victim Culpability – the victim willingly took part in the crime or other events, which may have led to the crime. - Ding Ding Ding...I think we have a winner! Ignoring Mason Rudolph's part in this is also inexcusable
- Unusual Circumstances – the defendant’s actions were due to temporary emotional stress or severe provocation. - Lets see how would any of us react with a guy trying to rip our head off while standing on our groin....frankly I think your "plastic" comments are childish at best
- No Harm Done – the actions of the defendant were somehow justified, and did not cause harm to another person. - Mason says he is "good to go"
- Necessity – the defendant committed the crime out of necessity. - Yeah...doubt this applies...
- Remorse – the defendant clearly shows he is remorseful for his actions. - Garrett is obviously remorseful...and probably won't fight any penalty handed down.
Now here is the thing...Mitigating Circumstances DO NOT EXCUSE DEFENDANT OF A CRIME. They are however considered when determining punishment. Only one circumstance is needed....and we can see that there are far more than one in our situation. No one is "JUSTIFYING" hitting someone over the head with a helmet...so get over yourself. Garrett is going to be suspended and deservedly so. But Mitigating Circumstances should be considered when determining a length of suspension. And it should be looked at for ALL PARTIES INVOLVED. That is the part I feel you have ignored. I have not seen a single post by you acknowledging Mason's part in this....nor mentioning Pouncey's actions...
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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This whole thing is depressing.
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This whole thing is depressing. Well season was lost anyway... I didn't like Baker's comments on the end of the game,what was the guy thinking and why can't he just shut up. Didn't see the incident, no comment and goodbye.
Last edited by rastanplan; 11/15/19 01:35 PM.
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Ok looked at the tape again. Rudolph started it by trying to take Garrett's helmet off and then trying to push him away with his leg in the groining area but come on. Garrett went way over the line. You can't rip a guys helmet off and then hit him over the head with it!
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I guess you do not believe in mitigating or extenuating circumstances... Common Mitigating Circumstances Because many situations may be considered mitigating factors, there is no list set by law. Commonly used mitigating factors include: - Defendant’s Age – whether the defendant was an adult or minor at the time of the crime. - irrelevant as both are adults
- Mental capacity – such as the defendant’s intellectual disability, or mental state at the time of the crime.
- History of Abuse – whether the defendant has a history of being abused. - Garrett was choked and held for most of the game.
- No Criminal Record – this usually refers to a criminal history as an adult, but very serious offenses as a minor may be considered an aggravating circumstance. - Essentially a history...of which Garrett has none
- Victim Culpability – the victim willingly took part in the crime or other events, which may have led to the crime. - Ding Ding Ding...I think we have a winner! Ignoring Mason Rudolph's part in this is also inexcusable
- Unusual Circumstances – the defendant’s actions were due to temporary emotional stress or severe provocation. - Lets see how would any of us react with a guy trying to rip our head off while standing on our groin....frankly I think your "plastic" comments are childish at best
- No Harm Done – the actions of the defendant were somehow justified, and did not cause harm to another person. - Mason says he is "good to go"
- Necessity – the defendant committed the crime out of necessity. - Yeah...doubt this applies...
- Remorse – the defendant clearly shows he is remorseful for his actions. - Garrett is obviously remorseful...and probably won't fight any penalty handed down.
Now here is the thing...Mitigating Circumstances DO NOT EXCUSE DEFENDANT OF A CRIME. They are however considered when determining punishment. Only one circumstance is needed....and we can see that there are far more than one in our situation. No one is "JUSTIFYING" hitting someone over the head with a helmet...so get over yourself. Garrett is going to be suspended and deservedly so. But Mitigating Circumstances should be considered when determining a length of suspension. And it should be looked at for ALL PARTIES INVOLVED. That is the part I feel you have ignored. I have not seen a single post by you acknowledging Mason's part in this....nor mentioning Pouncey's actions... its called excessive..and you must have missed where I said Mason should get suspended too...I didn't say anything about pouncey because i knew he'd be suspended too..But none of them did anything as bad as Garrett...thus the punishment. Garrett would have been better to just take Mason to the ground and GNP him as opposed to what he did.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Garrett suspended indefinitely, minimum rest of season and playoffs. Sounds like this is going into next season also. It sounds like in the offseason they’ll force him to take classes or something and then re-instate him
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Garrett was retreating...that means he was walking away...Rudolph re-started the melee and got punked. Somehow, that equates to Garret being suspended for a year? Ridiculous.
Again...Garret was walking away from the fight when Rudolph charged after him. The incident was over...Rudolph attacked. Watch the tape. again...people are justifying what he did...its ridiculous...guess what..Garrett could have kept retreating..but no, he took a weapon and hit an unprotected player in the head.. People are also over looking Mason's role in this.as another poster said shouldn't kicking Myles in the groin with spiked cleats also be considered using a weapon. It very easily could have severed a testicle or even his manhood not to mention it could have caused him to not be able to have children in the future if he so chooses to. I'm not saying Myles was right in swinging the helmet but Rudolph certainly isn't innocent in the situation either kicked in a plastic cup by plastic cleats..yeah..don't think they justifies trying to decapitate someone with a helmet how do you know that Myles was wearing a cup. Not all players wear cups and sharpened plastic can do just as much damage as metal. And I don't believe Myles was trying to decapitate Mason when he hit him with the open end of the helmet.If he would of hit him with the crown I could see that but he didn't. I think they were both wrong in what they did and to me that's beyond obvious he didn't try to hit him with the open end...he just swung it..it happened to land that way I believe Myles knew exactly how he was holding the helmet and he swung down with it for that reason.if he wanted to make contact with the crown he most definitely could have done so
"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill
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Ok looked at the tape again. Rudolph started it by trying to take Garrett's helmet off and then trying to push him away with his leg in the groining area but come on. Garrett went way over the line. You can't rip a guys helmet off and then hit him over the head with it! not only ripped it off, but actually pulled him off the ground by it
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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I believe Myles knew exactly how he was holding the helmet and he swung down with it for that reason.if he wanted to make contact with the crown he most definitely could have done so
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Stuff like this happens even in practice with team mates.
Please show me the times when a player removes the helmet of another player and hits them in the head with it. Thanks in advance.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Garrett suspended indefinitely, minimum rest of season and playoffs. Sounds like this is going into next season also. It sounds like in the offseason they’ll force him to take classes or something and then re-instate him Yea that is probably what they will do.
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Ok looked at the tape again. Rudolph started it by trying to take Garrett's helmet off and then trying to push him away with his leg in the groining area but come on. Garrett went way over the line. You can't rip a guys helmet off and then hit him over the head with it! not only ripped it off, but actually pulled him off the ground by it And I'm not going to lie and say I didn't love it... Its wrong, but yeahh, can't help it. Also don't thin its anything major...
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Garrett should appeal immediately. There is zero precedent for an indefinite ban. The Browns organization should also register an objection for Rudolph not receiving any suspension or fine.
Garrett was wrong in a heated moment and I do not condone his actions, he should be punished. That said Rudolph is in no way innocent in this and should at a minimum be fined, but I think he deserves at least a game or two suspension.
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 11/15/19 01:42 PM.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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Stuff like this happens even in practice with team mates.
Please show me the times when a player removes the helmet of another player and hits them in the head with it. Thanks in advance. I've seen fights in training camp and practice before but I have never seen that.
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and honestly trying to kill Mason and injure him is seeing way too much... I don't think anyone is saying MG was trying to kill Rudolph. I'm saying - and I think others too - is that the physical freak that is MG, and as ridiculously strong and powerful as he is ... swinging a football helmet and hitting another person in the head with it, could easily kill someone. That's serious. It means that it doesn't matter who started it or what happened before he swung the helmet ... that swing all by itself was dangerous enough and wrong enough to get MG suspended for the rest of the season.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Ogun 1 game for a shove. 3 games for Pouncey for his attack. Mason started this by twisting garrets helmet around and trying to kick him in the balls and nadda.
Garret was wrong but he was attacked first, pulled off the helmet and backing up when Mason comes again at him. It happened it's no where near as bad as the fat Alberto stomp and his season is over and his career is honestly in jeopardy.
This is some serious Bull. I have seen a hell of a lot worse than I saw yesterday and nothing ever even said about it. I dont know if it us the Browns bias or the fact this nation is turning into a bunch of pansies to put it kindly.
Just tired of the NFF and its constant double standards. Between bvb this and the anthem crap over the last few years, I am about ready to walk away from the game I love, just like I have with the NBA.
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Does Ohio have a stand your ground law?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Well season was lost anyway... ...but it wasn't. We had just beat the 6-2 Bills and the 5-4 Steelers. We have the Phins once, Steelers once more (who we just beat), the Bengals twice, the Cards and then the Ravens (who we already beat). Optimistically, that's a 5-1 possibility. Heck, 4-2 is doable as well. 8 wins doesn't get you into the playoffs, but 9 might. No way we run the table, but with that schedule, it was maybe a possibility. Not now. Just plain sucks. An outcome we should have been celebrating is now mired in suspensions and upcoming firings (most likely). - Why was he on the field for that last play? Had he torn up his knee, we'd all be asking that question. - Why did we blitz? - Why couldn't Myles just punch him? Ugh. Sickening.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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my question is, why did Chris smith just stand there while pouncey kicked and punching on MG
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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Ogun 1 game for a shove. 3 games for Pouncey for his attack. Mason started this by twisting garrets helmet around and trying to kick him in the balls and nadda.
Garret was wrong but he was attacked first, pulled off the helmet and backing up when Mason comes again at him. It happened it's no where near as bad as the fat Alberto stomp and his season is over and his career is honestly in jeopardy.
This is some serious Bull. I have seen a hell of a lot worse than I saw yesterday and nothing ever even said about it. I dont know if it us the Browns bias or the fact this nation is turning into a bunch of pansies to put it kindly.
Just tired of the NFF and its constant double standards. Between bvb this and the anthem crap over the last few years, I am about ready to walk away from the game I love, just like I have with the NBA. It's why the Browns are the ONLY NFL I watch. Good to see you BTW!!!
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Hey I know I got HOMER eyes but this is what I saw.
We were pummelling them, they didn't take a knee and we were not backing off. Who was being humiliated? Steelers always have played dirty against us and this game we were pummelling them. Garrett made a clean tackle of the QB under the shoulders and above at the waist then their QB put his hands in Myles facemask and was tugging at his helmet which almost came off. Myles instinctively pulled on the QBs helmet and took it off then 2 OLmen started to punish Garrett for the act and it was the stupid QB who came at Garrett physically so there were 3 guys attacking Garrett one of which was the dumb ass QB without his helmet on. Garrett should have dropped the helmet before he started to defend himself.
We all know that looked bad but it wasn't as bad as if Garrett cold cocked him and knocked him out. It didn't seem to faze the aggressor QB. Then Larry gets kicked out cause at the end he gave a "SHOVE" on the guy who started the whole thing and who was involved from beginning to end with again the Steelers owning the NFL and the Refs the agressor in all this did not get suspended.
Garrett snapped cause he was held the entire game, he was cheap shotted the entire game and nothing gets called. Meanwhile the only score by the Steelers the entire drive was the Referees again owned by the Steelers..THE ENTIRE DRIVE was the referees. I can only guess Garrett was frustrated and it was the end of the game where the Steelers were getting their but wiped on national TV. They were the instigators throughout. We did the ugly thing. Which is wrong and Garrett will pay for it. This is his first offense so I am hoping for a 2 game suspension. But it was against the Steelers so we all know what will happen.
What sickened me was Kitchens apologizing to that slime Steeler HC you know the guy who tripped a player by going onto the field and sticking out his leg and got nothing in penalties or suspensions...the slime who has his players putting opponents out as year after year we see our QBs getting beat up by their head hits pulling of the face mask without flags being thrown. And then at the end of the game when its a laugher they are all on the sidelines laughing at us. Well this was the best beating the Steelers have ever gotten. We total wiped their butts up and down the field. And they didn't like it.
They were the aggressors in this but there are two ways this gets treated. Steelers allowed to do what they want and our guys are not. Point blank we kicked their butt and they didn't like it.
Garrett just couldn't keep his cool unfortunately. He is not the kind of guy to do this but he was provoked which doesn't mean he should get off clean. He will take his punishment and if it is more than 2 games we know this is not about Garrett but about the Steelers owning the NFL.
jmho
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Well season was lost anyway... ...but it wasn't. We had just beat the 6-2 Bills and the 5-4 Steelers. We have the Phins once, Steelers once more (who we just beat), the Bengals twice, the Cards and then the Ravens (who we already beat). Optimistically, that's a 5-1 possibility. Heck, 4-2 is doable as well. 8 wins doesn't get you into the playoffs, but 9 might. No way we run the table, but with that schedule, it was maybe a possibility. Not now. Just plain sucks. An outcome we should have been celebrating is now mired in suspensions and upcoming firings (most likely). - Why was he on the field for that last play? Had he torn up his knee, we'd all be asking that question. - Why did we blitz? - Why couldn't Myles just punch him? Ugh. Sickening. If you think it wasn't then it still isn't... The results lie much more on the improvement in O than the D itself... I'm sure D will be fired up after this and will play better. Although I think Baker just did lose a lot of respect from many in the team... with his inexcusable stint.. Why can't the guy just shut up.
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I believe Myles knew exactly how he was holding the helmet and he swung down with it for that reason.if he wanted to make contact with the crown he most definitely could have done so
laugh all you want bro but he ripped Mason's helmet straight off his head and could very easily see and feel which way he was holding it.Again I'm not saying he was right but I also don't believe he had no clue how he was holding the helmet in his hand and just got lucky the crown didn't make contact
"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill
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because its foolish to think he knew...he swung wildly,, all it would have taken was his elbow to hit the Oline holding him and that helmet hits a totally different way..he swung with the intent to seriously injure
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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That would have left a mark...
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Why does Myles and every one else keep saying this is out of character for him? That's a false narrative. He may be a nice guy off the field but he's an immature football player who pretty consistently shows poor judgment and hurts his team. He has the maturity of a child, not a young adult.
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Why was Rudolph even in reach of Garrett?
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I believe Myles knew exactly how he was holding the helmet and he swung down with it for that reason.if he wanted to make contact with the crown he most definitely could have done so
laugh all you want bro but he ripped Mason's helmet straight off his head and could very easily see and feel which way he was holding it.Again I'm not saying he was right but I also don't believe he had no clue how he was holding the helmet in his hand and just got lucky the crown didn't make contact And we don't have to be PC about this stuff.. if the Browns fans don't stand by the players who will. It was stupid but can't say I didn't liked it. Well not the swing of the helmet off course. Myles does not need a helmet to knock other guy out.
Last edited by rastanplan; 11/15/19 01:57 PM.
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How about we just agree to disagree then
"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill
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yes...like i said before, he was already fined this year for punching a player...people need to take the brown colored glasses off and see it for what it is.. a guy who has hurt the team through his immaturity and constantly being penalized for infractions. Its hard to really say he's helped more than he's hurt. Probably was a wash at this point, but this puts it over. One other thing to watch, while the nfl suspends him, the team might punish him as well...he just cost them 1/4 mill.. pretty sure jimmy ain't happy about that
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Posts: 22,534 Likes: 176
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 22,534 Likes: 176 |
I believe Myles knew exactly how he was holding the helmet and he swung down with it for that reason.if he wanted to make contact with the crown he most definitely could have done so
laugh all you want bro but he ripped Mason's helmet straight off his head and could very easily see and feel which way he was holding it.Again I'm not saying he was right but I also don't believe he had no clue how he was holding the helmet in his hand and just got lucky the crown didn't make contact And we don't have to be PC about this stuff.. if the Browns fans don't stand by the players who will. It was stupid but can't say I didn't liked it. Well not the swing of the helmet off course. Myles does not need a helmet to knock other guy out. thats the point...of everything and all, he would have been penalized LESS, if he would have just used his hands..
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,713 Likes: 105
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,713 Likes: 105 |
Why was Rudolph even in reach of Garrett? He was trying to kick him in the groin again. QB's are allowed to do that
Joe Thomas #73
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307 Likes: 2
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307 Likes: 2 |
yes...like i said before, he was already fined this year for punching a player...people need to take the brown colored glasses off and see it for what it is.. a guy who has hurt the team through his immaturity and constantly being penalized for infractions. Its hard to really say he's helped more than he's hurt. Probably was a wash at this point, but this puts it over. One other thing to watch, while the nfl suspends him, the team might punish him as well...he just cost them 1/4 mill.. pretty sure jimmy ain't happy about that We get it and think its right, but honestly I like this better than seeing our QB being knocked out and no player doing anything.. Myles has fire and that is good. He is not a dirty player.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,459 Likes: 32
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,459 Likes: 32 |
Ogun 1 game for a shove. 3 games for Pouncey for his attack. Mason started this by twisting garrets helmet around and trying to kick him in the balls and nadda.
Garret was wrong but he was attacked first, pulled off the helmet and backing up when Mason comes again at him. It happened it's no where near as bad as the fat Alberto stomp and his season is over and his career is honestly in jeopardy.
This is some serious Bull. I have seen a hell of a lot worse than I saw yesterday and nothing ever even said about it. I dont know if it us the Browns bias or the fact this nation is turning into a bunch of pansies to put it kindly.
Just tired of the NFF and its constant double standards. Between bvb this and the anthem crap over the last few years, I am about ready to walk away from the game I love, just like I have with the NBA. Bingo. QFT.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Myles Garrett
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