DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Higgins?

The egregious misuse of players continues here in Cleveland.

Sure, he hasn't seen a lot of targets but he also isn't catching the ball, his catch % is 36%. As horrible as we perceive OBJ to be this year his catch % is 54%.

As amazing as we think Landry is, it's only 60%


Michael Thomas is 82%

I would love to hear the Dorsey plan. What is it? How does he build teams? Trading draft picks for stars? Trading up and coming talent for draft picks? Trading the players he drafts that fail for additional draft picks? Quite simply it must be trading, no?

Clearly, there are things afoot that we don't know about. Whatever it is, I wonder how much is the fact that his star was definitely rising last year only to be relegated to being the #3, at best when OBJ came in?


Also, Happy birthday, Bard!

Do you really think we are going into next season with Kitchens/Wilks/Mocken ?

I really like Higgins. Some team is going to get a really good WR ...... probably New England.

I think the Air raid needs to go, I think in theory it can work but Monken isn't cutting it in his last two stops, those teams have led the league in turnovers.

agreed, I am not a fan of it.

I have no idea. I just want to win. Whatever that entails, do it.

I just want to see an offense as exciting, but as SUCCESSFUL, as last year's when Kitchens took over.

I don't care if it is Monken or Bob Dole running it, I just want it to work with regular consistency.

This year Higgins pass completion rate is in the 30's percentage wise. So far he hasn't been able to catch a cold.

Worse than most if not all of our WR's. I don't know what the hell happened to Higgins but your post is silly.

Happy Birthday, Bard!

What's silly is using a sample size of 11 to justify a percentage. 11 being targets. What's also silly is not realizing only one of those 11 targets was a drop by Higgins.

So Baker sucks? Baker refuses to throw him the ball when he's open? Is that what you're saying? Because all of the other WR's have a higher completion percentage. How do you use a higher sample size that doesn't exist?

The most yards Higgins has had in his four year NFL career was 572 yards. You need to quit acting like we're wasting some great talent here.

Everyone, don't you love it when the goalposts are moved? I'll defer to the common sense of this board and ask if this is what I said.

Of Higgins' 11 targets only 5 were deemed catchable. His catchable target rate is 45.5%. Higgins has a true catch rate (total receptions divided by total catchable targets) of 80%. He has zero drops on the year.

https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/rashard-higgins/

You lost that battle when you said this......



....... In reference to Higgins.

Sorry I had to paint you a bigger picture in order that you might get it.

But why post that? Memphis said the sample size was too small to matter?

I wonder how OBJ and VG did on their first 11 chances ... I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say they both had at least twice as many catches as Higgs did ... *L* ..

Catch % is a BS stat for evaluating a wr ... one of the menZas threw up Thomas’s catch % ... if u want a relevant stat u need to to know how many wee actually catchable ... I’ll go out on another limb here and say that brees throws more catchable passes than bake ... I feel pretty safe on this limb as well ... *L*

5 out of 11 were catchable ... that’s sad ...

I wonder where bake ranks in that stat .. pretty bleak would be my guess ... He’s been extremely INNACURATE this year ...

5 out of 11 ... THATS just off the charts sad ... damm bake ... hope u turn it back around next year or it’s gonna be another long year ...

I don't think that anyone is comparing Higgins to Juice and OBJ.

That is a false narrative.

People are comparing him to the bumbs playing ahead of him.

Has any given us what Higgins did in the past?

Not even close.

Well he did have one year that he wasn't bad. Last year. Where I think the problem is, is that some seem to think that's his normal and not an anomaly.

One would have to conclude for that to be true that Higgins looks much better in practice and the coaching staff ignores that to play inferior WR's.

I don't think that's the case.

The proof is in the pudding. Hodges and Rattley have been nothing more than warm bodies, and have done nothing with their opportunities to prove your assumption.

It would be easy to believe the opposite, if there were evidence to the contrary.

For catch %, yes. You attempted to legitimately correlate Higgins as a WR to only 11 targets. That was pretty dumb. I think the above posts pointed that out for you.

Well done, everyone.

Agreed. Has to be NFL choices beyond this Frankenstein hybrid. We have the deck stacked in its favor with our roster talent. If it can't fly, get some football that can. Oh, and run the ball enough. Freddy keeps forgetting the groundwork.

Somehow you think one person pointing out something you called meaningless is "everyone".



Higgins is "just another guy". Trying to make an issue out of nothing is just what you do.

Ok ... I’ll go out on a much weaker limb ...

I bet Ratley and Hodges both had double, maybe even triple the # of catches Higgs did in their first 11 targets .... heck ... I‘M not even sure they’ve had 11 targets combined and they have more than 1 catch each ... *L*

Is that better ...

THIS IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

Higgins is a good player, but this isn't the point,

This isn't what people should be talking about!
The problem is! Where the heck are the tight ends in Cleveland?

The Chiefs beat the Pats, but when they did it, I read, Kelce had 7 catches for 66 yards.
The Browns tight ends have been missing in action, another example of the egregious misuse or players.

Besides, if anybody's a "good" player on the Browns roster they either get Cut, Waived, Suspended, Traded, forgotten, placed in IR with a recoverable injury, or injured for 2 years i.e. Kellon Winslow 2,


Misuse of players.

Well isn't the third WR and 2nd and 3rd TE's worth throwing a fit about?

To me the relevant point is that someone who knows absolutely nothing about how Higgins performs in practice and how is attitude is during the week think they can judge whether a player is being used properly better than coaches who work intimately with the guy all week long and all season long. I am pretty certain that coaches whose success depends upon playing the best players would use him if he could help them win.

That said I am also disappointed that Higgins has not developed more. Before the obj trade I really thought Landry, Perryman and Higgins were going to be a nice group of receivers.

Yes Absolutely they are,

I've heard that same type of argument for 20 years

The Browns have had (purple)(Soooo much success in that time) (color)

But the truth is these tertiary players are on the field, and performing questionable levels of play,
( Like Hilliard instead of Duke ... or Hunt, .. or Hyde! for the first 8 games of 2019)

I just came back to this thread, to mention...

If a Browns coach goes 5-3, Gregg Williams, they get rid of him,
but if he's the Historically worst win loss record coach for the Team, and League, Hue, they bring him back for 3, or at least 2 and a half more years.


Misuse of players, ... Coaches too.

Dorsey gave Hue eight games with some actual talent he never had before Dorsey got here. Then Dorsey pulled the plug.

You need to use your brain enough to understand that the same people haven't been making the calls around here over the time period you're talking about.

Not only did Dorsey not hire Hue, he wasn't responsible for the lack of talent on the roster and the first two years Hue was here.

You're right ... we do not know the underlying circumstances, because we don't see them.

It could very well be an attitude / self pity problem on Higgins behalf. (speculation)

What we see and get ... is that something is missing ... that once seemingly was.

It's not as some would say an issue over a 3rd WR, but rather the offence as a whole, running on less than all cylinders.

Every successful team has a 3rd option @WR ...
This year we have not.

Add that to a second year QB who is struggling to match his rookie performance, and if there be any other issue, then it is briefly comperhinded in this saying ... there is a hitch in their kiddie up, and sometimes, even often times, that hitch starts at the top.

Don't let anyone paint me in the picture of believing
"the conceived notion" so often repeated around here of the "lack of talent" on those previous teams, or it not matching the current teams.

I don't buy that often repeated line of 2016, and 2017 having a lack of talent, no matter how many times someone repeats it.

It's the NFL, they all had similar talent, and the current group,

Well, it seems all the groups, while on the Browns, could be put in better positions to maximize the exhibition of their excellence.
Hmm.

Was it that great QB depth chart in 2016 that causes you to believe that? You know, that dynamic line up of Cody Kessler, Kevin Hogan, Josh McCown, Robert Griffin III, Terrelle Pryor, and “Clipboard Jesus” Charlie Whitehurst?

Or was it the 2017 talented combination of Kizer, Cody Kessler and Kevin Hogan that has you convinced? How about Corey Coleman? Is that what did it for you?

You can believe what you want to believe, I just ask noone to assume I hold the same belief;
regarding lack of talent on those years' teams.

There are very few times I would disagree. This is one of those times. I've never seena roster, fielded on a professional team as bad as 16/17. The 16 team might have been the worst team I have ever seen on paper and in reality. The other one went 0-16....

Wasn't Higgins last catch the game winning TD against Buffalo?

Yes

I think we were a better offense with Landry and Higgins at WR than we are with Landry and Beckham.