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We are now 2-2 and except for a blocked field goal,, we should be 3-1..
I wanna know, do those of you that wanted RAC fired after the Pittsburgh game still want him fired now?
I have confidence in RAC. The RAC we see on camera is not the RAC that is behind the scenes. I haven't been hearing the "hot seat" talk for a few weeks now........wonder why 
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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I hope not. I never understood it as I think he never has gotten a chance with a halfway decent team. I like RAC and realize he is growning as a HC. I hope when we win the superbowl everyone eats thier words!! (ok or if we just finish at 500)
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I haven't been hearing the "hot seat" talk for a few weeks now........wonder why
Gee,, I wonder 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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We're in year 3 of what was called a 5 year plan.
Any of you that have done restoration would know that it's around the halfway point that the project looks it's worse, then as you continue it begins to take shape.
I think we may be entering that actual restoration phase, after the strip down and repair of the foundation.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I know, I've been saying that for three weeks now, but we still have some on here that insist RAC needs fired... Well, as least we did have some of those. We aren't really hearing from them much anymore, so maybe they've changed thier minds or are hiding.. don't know which.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Sorry Daman, I forgot the "jc...", wasn't referring to you directly. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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No Problem,, I was agreeing with you by the way? Notice,, none of the people that wanted him fired for the last three weeks are saying a thing now.. But you watch,, one loss and they'll be back out again  So predictable
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Wow, look at that tumbleweed rolling by. 
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Wow, look at that tumbleweed rolling by.
Tumbleweeds? 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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It's kind of nice to come on here and not have to read that crap. I know the first loss will bring them out of the woodwork but I'll enjoy it while it lasts.
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Yeah, I hear crickets now but after this coming game it will start all over again.....
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Tell you all this however,, you watch,, We win this game in NE on Sunday and RAC will be recommended for sainthood by some of those that think he should have been fired...LOL
But seriously,, I really hope he works out. If he doesn't, it's bad for the Browns in more ways than I can count..
But hey,, if we lose the next 5 or 6 games, (depending on how we lose them) I might agree with them about him being Fired.. some of you that oppose it now might agree also.. Who knows!
Either way,,, those that want him fired are very very quiet right now....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Either that or two other things will happen...they'll post how the team won in spite of RAC or they'll talk about how he finally learned how to get it right.
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Either that or two other things will happen...they'll post how the team won in spite of RAC or they'll talk about how he finally learned how to get it right.
Shh, don't give them any ideas
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Tell you all this however,, you watch,, We win this game in NE on Sunday and RAC will be recommended for sainthood by some of those that think he should have been fired..
Not here.
A few wins doesn't change my opinion just as a few losses didn't form it.
But to carry on about how bad the guy is after a nice win is almost as stupid as sticking up for the guy after a miserable loss...and I won't do it.
Romeo is still on thin ice....but if we keep winning, nothing says he can't find sound footing.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I agree. Romeo got to where I thought he had to get by the bye week. That is, he's gonna have at least 2 wins.
But Peen is correct. A couple of losses like the one the first week and Romeo is back treading water. Shark infested water.
No one expects us to beat NE. Hell, if we hold 'em under 30 we'll be doing great (something I find unlikely, frankly). But a loss to the Dolphins in week 6 and we'll be no better off than we were last week before Baltimore.
I like Romeo. I hope he succeeds. I'm tired of watching a loser. But I've been down the "Oh, we beat ------ we're going to the playoffs" road before. And it almost always leads to a dead end. Consequently, I'll hold my judgement until much later in the season before I get the rose colored glasses out.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Romeo is still on thin ice....but if we keep winning, nothing says he can't find sound footing.  Rac is only on thin ice in the minds of the fans(U included) and media..if that ice breaks he'll crush U all  As far as the FO goes,...he's on thin ice IF HE LOSES the team.. As long as they are competitive and win some games , especially against division rivals, his job is safe..
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I agree. As long as he doesn't lose the team, and I don't see any signs of that whatesoever......as a matter a fact the opposite. I would have to agree about the competitive part, but I'll say this he doesn't have to win another division game this year and his job is safe. RAC needs only to be competitive and win 4 games or more the rest of the way to be fine. Only the dolts thought that this was a playoff team to begin with, and the FO and Non-dolts knew that this was a year were we just needed to show improvement, and progress on the field.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Good topic... Goods points and concerns...
RAC needs to keep teaching and stay positive. He and his CS need to continue to preach, teach and have confidence and faith in the systems they have implemented. RAC is not looking over his shoulder for anybody or anything. He is dong a good to solid job with the team he has. I don't care what anyone here thinks... Neither does he, his staff or the FS...
Does he have areas to grow and improve in? Yes. IMO our D is young and the veteran talent overall is below average at this point in time. The Browns have very young players in key positions on D and they simply need time to grow, learn and improve. The D staff can only "put in" or be only so aggressive, this being the case. Young players are going to be out of position and make mentals; we have all seen this... Big plays being given up missed tackles, assignments, wrong or blown coverage’s. Looking in the back field or @ the QB, biting on PA... Just to name a few. On D the Browns have veterans that aren't holding up, producing. In rotation and as starters. Veterans are supposed to make plays and help put others in position to make plays. This is not happening consistently. IMO
The Browns front 3 on D are consistently hor-ri-ble... Much of the time. They have had moments, streaks of success… Half of the starting LB corps are not holding up their end either. A week front seven on D is the biggest area of concern on the team right now. The Browns can not stop the run. Until they can they will lose more than they win. So how does the CS fix this problem? If they send the sink more often, get a lot more aggressive, mix up the blitzes more and blitz more overall, will they have more success? The D will give up more big plays, the young guys will be out of position more often, will make more errors because they will be thinking more, reacting less and will have less confidence... The more risk you take the more chance you have for success or failure... Success is usually long term, failure is usually short term. Many here think RAC and long term aren’t applicable parallels….
I believe the D will improve over the course of the rest of the season. The youth will get better with PT. The veteran players we have won't improve much and will need to be moved to back up roles in the future or out right replaced next year. The Browns have some old, not productive dead weight on the roster...
Who would have thought the 0 would be scoring and producing points as they have. Big plays and being productive has been the big improvement. The Browns have been getting out gained, 0 to 0 but have scored on a high % of their possessions. Play calling, patience and game planning are much improved. Attacking and balance have been keys to the success so far. THE OFFENISVE LINE IS THE PRIMARY REASON FOR THE BROWNS SUCCESS SO FAR THIS SEASON. Controlling the LOS is the key.
The Browns are fortunate to be 500 right now... If the CS sticks with their plans and processes and the team, youth, keeps improving we may have a shot @ 500 this season. This would be a great year for the Browns realistically.
In nutshell, I believe RAC and staff should stay the course... Be patient, let the players play, grow, learn and improve. Stick with their plans and processes. Expand the plan/processes as the players are capable and ready with the remainder of this season. This will improve confidence in all areas of the team. The Browns are what they are... They'll continue to improve by trusting one another, having success with in their schemes, developing confidence & coming together as a team.
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But to carry on about how bad the guy is after a nice win is almost as stupid as sticking up for the guy after a miserable loss...and I won't do it.
What about beating the guy up after a horrible loss? Are you telling me that's a good thing? Are you saying that sticking up for him after a loss is wrong but beating him down after a loss is OK?
Backwater thinking Peen!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Peen has been consistent in his thinking, his opinion changes but gradually over time, not with a great half or even a real good game or a couple good games...
the problem is if the Browns have a bad showing the "Fire RAC" crowd comes out in full force, then after a good game they disappear for the most part and the RAC supporters come out... I don't too many people have a real volatile opinion of him, it just seems that way from reading the MB...
What would be better is if more people gave substantive posts which focused on the good and the bad from each game.... but don't hold your breath.
yebat' Putin
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What would be better is if more people gave substantive posts which focused on the good and the bad from each game.... but don't hold your breath.
I think that is done quite a bit here. The problem comes from people who, as my Dad used to say, wouldn't say crap if they had a mouthful. Criticism is usually constructive on this board. But some on here apparently live in a Utopian world where coachs never make mistakes and our starters are always the best.
Problem is we're not New England or Indy and that isn't true here. Besides that a coach is never really "safe". Not in the NFL. Ask Marty. So downplaying Romeo's faults or ignoring the teams mistakes won't help him keep his job. He's on his own, there.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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But some on here apparently live in a Utopian world where coachs never make mistakes and our starters are always the best.
There are those on this board that seem to think exactly that.
But don't confuse those people with people like me that DON'T panic at the first sign of trouble.
We had people on this board saying RAC should be fired on the spot after the Steelers game... Tell me, does that resemble rational thinking?
All I could say back then was,,, yup, we sucked,, Charlie sucked, our coaching sucked, our preperation sucked.. and I DID say all of that in one post or the other. So I don't live in that Quote:
Utopian world
as you put it.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Should Romeo have been fired after the first game? No. Could Savage have justified it if he had fired him? Yes. The first game we looked bad in nearly all aspects of the game. Against the one team that every Browns fan hates.
All I'm saying is that while the win on Saturday has everyone on cloud nine it doesn't mean we don't still have flaws and could still crash and burn. If we're not careful.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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As long as they are competitive and win some games , especially against division rivals, his job is safe..
I don't disagree and never have.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I didn't beat him up Daman....you made your points in one post mostly because your argument was weak. And panic??.....be real he man. Panic isn't the word....it is another word that starts with P though. I take things for what they are...when they are bad, I say so....I am still not real hopeful the guy makes next season....but if he makes the changes I think are necessary, he can stay. I have no problem with that...as long as the team wins, I don't really care who is coach. Think about it...Savage saved Romeos butt...saved him from himself. By trading Frye, he took that option away from Romeo. Had Chuck been left here, we would still be sorting through various stages of Chuck and Anderson. As long as Romeo doesn't have to make many decisions, he might be ok. 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Romeo is still on thin ice....but if we keep winning, nothing says he can't find sound footing.
yep.
He hasnt changed his situation one bit unless we are so pathetic as an organization that we think that 2 division wins is such a big deal. I certainly hope that isnt the case.
Lets see how he has this team prepared for The Pats
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Could Savage have justified it if he had fired him? Yes.
Perhaps to you and some others.. but to me, Savage firing RAC after one game this year, after he gave him the groceries to cook dinner with (to paraphrase a famous HC) is just stupid,,,
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The first game we looked bad in nearly all aspects of the game. Against the one team that every Browns fan hates.
you living in that utopia place you mentioned Man, we didn't look bad,, we looked HORRIBLE in every phase of the game... ST, D and O and Coaching... Just the worst game I think I've seen since the last time we played Pittsburgh for the first game of the year back in 99,,,, that was worse, but at least then, we had to expect that.
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All I'm saying is that while the win on Saturday has everyone on cloud nine it doesn't mean we don't still have flaws and could still crash and burn.
Absolutly,,, no question. we are so far from perfect at this point it isn't even funny... The team has holes.. the talent is better but not SB or even playoff quality.... not yet. Which by the way, makes my point about firing RAC and the talk of such, just totally premature.
It's emotion talking when a person wants to take drastic action in those circumstances.... But I don't expect anyone would actually admit that.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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It's emotion talking when a person wants to take drastic action in those circumstances.... But I don't expect anyone would actually admit that.
On this board, no freakin way!!
What kills me is that on another thread that spoke about the locker room speech at RAC gave, everyone was impressed with his emotion and even his barking. But what got lost was that he told the players that they needed to prepare for the Pats on Monday, not taking a day off, and start getting ready NOW!!.. See that is what someone who knows he has to prepare does, relishes the victory but knows he has to get ready for the next battle!!!
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Think about it...Savage saved Romeos butt...saved him from himself.
By trading Frye, he took that option away from Romeo. Had Chuck been left here, we would still be sorting through various stages of Chuck and Anderson.
As long as Romeo doesn't have to make many decisions, he might be ok.
and who saved Savages butt in the Collins scramble?
Romeo may be too loyal at time (Mo, Frye...etc) but he is also the main reason there´s at least a little continuity in this franchise....he was vital in keeping Savage DO NOT FORGET THAT
maybe both Savage and Crennel are just about to find out what they do best right now.....they both arent perfect but both seem likeable and competent....I hope we keep Romeo for at least another year.....
Crennel went out to hit for Savage...let´s see what Savage does this Offseason...we will find out something about Phil after this season....I honestly hope he shows some loyalty too
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and who saved Savages butt in the Collins scramble?
I read that Romeo did....so I guess that calls them even.
Right??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Think about it...Savage saved Romeos butt...saved him from himself.
By trading Frye, he took that option away from Romeo. Had Chuck been left here, we would still be sorting through various stages of Chuck and Anderson.
While somewhat accurate, I think what this implies could possibly be inaccurate.
No one that I can recall on this board ever mentioned the possibility that Frye was Savage's guy and Anderson was RAC's guy. It's very plausible that RAC wanted Anderson to emerge as the winner and Savage wanted Frye. After all, Savage drafted Frye and had more of a vested interest in him succeeding.
You could argue that RAC could have just made Anderson the starter if that were the case, but maybe he thought it was fair and in the best interest of setting an example to the team that it be made a competition. When Anderson didn't show up, RAC was forced to play Frye.
And Savage may have removed the decision for RAC to have to make after that first game, but I don't think Frye would have saw the field again as a Brown. Anderson would have started the 2nd game, IMO.
Daman: You oversimplify too much. You discount the fact that people wanted to see RAC gone after the first game because even though it was only the first game of this season, it was his 33rd game with this team, and they looked just as unprepared as ever. But you want to make it seem like it was 1 game.
I think most of the people on here are judging him and Savage on their body of work, and the real intelligent folks aren't getting too high or too low after a good or bad win. If there was more than the usual good feelings about RAC this week, maybe people finally felt he was turning the corner as the team looked very prepared and ready to play this past week.
Can you tell me another time when you've seen that in the last two years? That is something to be excited about and offer some praise for RAC for a job well done. Now let's see it continue.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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...If there was more than the usual good feelings about RAC this week, maybe people finally felt he was turning the corner as the team looked very prepared and ready to play this past week.
Can you tell me another time when you've seen that in the last two years? That is something to be excited about and offer some praise for RAC for a job well done. Now let's see it continue.
It's always the same around here. We're on track when we win, we suck when we lose. If there's difference this time I think it can be attributed to the offense scoring points.
Hell, talk abounds right now about the possibility of us beating the Pats. And it's coming from a different angle than "any given Sunday". Let's see what the talk is after the game.
#gmstrong
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Think about it...Savage saved Romeos butt...saved him from himself.
By trading Frye, he took that option away from Romeo.
What a load of crap.
If some of the things you've alluded to regarding Savage running the team as RAC stands by playing the dodo bird were true RAC would already have been gone.
Nothing could be farther from a winning attitude than a GM and head coach operating in that manner. How can Savage say winning is important to him and then go on to defend a head coach whom he actually feels he must overule, overstep and otherwise take authority away from because he really feels the man is stupid and cannot make a coaching decision on his own?
And what kind of man would that make RAC? A bumbling coach who is indecisive and must constantly have someone step in and "save him from himself"? A man, who despite being treated like a total incompetent, stays the course and acts like none of this bothers him?
If the things you allude to were true, RAC would have either been fired by now for lack of abilities, or he would have resigned his post for having someone meddling in his own realm ripping the rug from under his feet so often.
The only way these scenarios could possibly play out as described is if Savage doesn't give a crap if we win or lose, and/or, RAC is not bothered in the least if he's played as the fool, is too stupid to realize it's happening to him, or doesn't care so long as he saves some face by retaining his job. If any of that would be true this franchise is in much deeper trouble than anyone suspects.
How could Savage, who certainly has Lerner's ear, keep a coach who is that stupid? How can he do that and still claim he wants to win? How could Lerner stand by and watch such things play out between his General Manager and Head Coach and not fire them both?
And how could RAC, if he's any kind of man at all, stand pat while his authority is undermined so many times and simply play it off?
I contend that every one of these decisions is talked over by Savage and RAC before the fact. It's highly possible that he defers to Savage's opinion, even if he sometimes disagrees, as no one can be so totally stubborn as to not see merit in the arguement. I'd wager it goes the other way around on some things as well. Most likely is that they mututally agree on most problems and work out a solution. That would be working together. That would be on the same page. That is the only scenario I could possible concieve that two real men could manage to be on the same team.
All that other crap is just far fetched attempts to make RAC out to be a Bozo.
#gmstrong
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You oversimplify too much. You discount the fact that people wanted to see RAC gone after the first game because even though it was only the first game of this season, it was his 33rd game with this team, and they looked just as unprepared as ever. But you want to make it seem like it was 1 game.
Oh lord,,, Yes Ris, I know that. I understand that. The problem with looking at it as his 33rd game is that he didn't have the talent he has now to work with.
Some fans think it's pefectly ok to hammer RAC because he can't make Crap into Crisco... I just didn't buy that..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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What a load of crap.
I don't think so.
Think about the Frye trade...there wasn't any real good reason to make that trade then....sure Seattle made a offer,..they were sniffing Dorsey too.
There was one good reason....Romeo..he would have kept screwing around and our franchise qb(we hope) Quinn would have been stuck in the third role while Romeo wavered between Frye and Anderson.
Savage put an end to that and made the decision Romeo couldn't make.
Look...I think Romeo is a pretty good X's and O's guy. I don't think he can make good decisions, and with nearly every move we have made this past year, it is pretty clear to me he isn't making many decisions anymore.
If it were up to his decision making we would still have Mo Carthon and 9 points a game.
As long as Romeo doesn't have to make decisions, he can do ok.
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How could Savage, who certainly has Lerner's ear, keep a coach who is that stupid? How can he do that and still claim he wants to win? How could Lerner stand by and watch such things play out between his General Manager and Head Coach and not fire them both?
And how could RAC, if he's any kind of man at all, stand pat while his authority is undermined so many times and simply play it off?
To the first question...that is the kind of coach Savage wants...everything I have read shows he has roster control. That doesn't mean he won't yield to Romeos wish...there is a concept of working together...
To the second question...I can't answer that, you would have to ask Romeo.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Think about the Frye trade No U think about it.. there wasn't any real good reason to make that trade then....sure Seattle made a offer,..they were sniffing Dorsey too.
This is where U lost it..the offer for Frye was IN PLACE for weeks..it's been pointed out here by various people..one who had inside knowledge..I got wind of it myself by someone else, just not the team that wanted him.. Peen U seem want to overlook facts to focus on your conspiracy theories..why I do not know  There was one good reason....Romeo..he would have kept screwing around and our franchise qb(we hope) Quinn would have been stuck in the third role while Romeo wavered between Frye and Anderson You're worse than a near-sighted person who can't even see through a magnifying glass One good reason they let Frye go..the Seahawks were talking contract to Dorsey and Phil HAD WANTED TO BRING HIM BACK somehow AND IT FORCED his hand.... So who WAS MORE VALUABLE to the developement of Quinn? Frye??? Or the brain KD? Get it OUT OF YOUR HEAD that it had anything to do with RAC..IT DIDN'T... Savage put an end to that and made the decision Romeo couldn't make. COULDN'T MAKE? Who pulled Frye out of the Pitt game... Phil???? So Rac was also monitering Seattles dealing with Dorsey? Thats not his job..Rac didn't have anything to do with that..it wasn't his decision nor was it ONE HE NEEDED or HAD to make. The GM moniters those things..and it's been noted by Phil and Rac they have ongoing discussions every week about personnel..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/03/07 09:22 AM.
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Legend
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Quote:
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...If there was more than the usual good feelings about RAC this week, maybe people finally felt he was turning the corner as the team looked very prepared and ready to play this past week.
Can you tell me another time when you've seen that in the last two years? That is something to be excited about and offer some praise for RAC for a job well done. Now let's see it continue.
It's always the same around here. We're on track when we win, we suck when we lose. If there's difference this time I think it can be attributed to the offense scoring points.
Hell, talk abounds right now about the possibility of us beating the Pats. And it's coming from a different angle than "any given Sunday". Let's see what the talk is after the game.
Don't try to lump me in with posters who come on here and make rash statements after one game. I'm only saying he deserves credit for a job well done for the Ravens game. I also said 'lets see it continue'.
Please tell me how that translates to 'we are on track'.
And you say, 'it's always the same around here' to my post...blah, blah, blah...I'm surprised you didn't write a whole 3 page essay about it.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Poser
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There you go....the facts as they happened. Agendas don't allow it to happen, though. Dorsey was the final link and it was a great move by Seattle to force Savage's hand when they did. It was also a great move by Savage to solidify the QB situation short term and accelerate the development of BQ for the long term.
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Legend
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Legend
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Great post ddub, you are dead on! I agree completely with what you said. You are the voice of reason, my friend, and you actually KNOW your football. That's a great combination.
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