DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum John Dorsey

Yet we often have wide open WR's that he doesn't see. To the point they are getting frustrated by it.

See, I find a lot of this confusing. So far I have seen people blame the WR's, the OL, Freddie, a lack of a quality TE, almost to the point of blaming everyone but Baker for the problems of Baker.

Baker is young and has the talent to be a great QB. But he refused to work with a private QB coach during the off season and the lack of doing so is showing. Hopefully he learned his lesson and will correct that during this off season. The potential is certainly there.

I've seen parents do the same thing with their children. Somehow when they get a D on their report card, it's the teachers fault, it's other kids distracting their child. They'll place the blame on everyone but their child.

Tiny minority in this forum, large majority if you consider the NFL...

No. Not at all. Not remotely so in any part of anything that has any credibility or sense.

What? That most of the NFL thinks any QB could do it a better job with the weapons we had?

That Baker is the worst QB in the league this year?

Not to add fuel to the fire, but one QBs off season work was documented....Lamar Jackson's. Here's a portion of the article.

*Disclaimer* I still believe Baker can and will be our franchise QB. This year was a learning moment.

From an ESPN article written back on April 17th, 2019.

Jackson has made a strong first impression on Ingram, who is coming from playing with the NFL's all-time leading passer.

"He's really mature, and his mind is definitely in the right places," Ingram said. "He wants to get here early, get in the film room [and] study. He's a hard worker, and he's just a good dude."

Jackson's commitment to putting in the work was considered a strength even before Baltimore drafted him with the final pick of last year's first round. He was around the facility so much that coach John Harbaugh described him as a "gym rat."

After last season's playoff loss to the Los Angeles Chargers, Jackson took the remainder of January to rest. Then, for the next two months, Jackson threw the ball five times a week in an effort to boost his 84.5 passer rating, which ranked 30th last season.

"Lamar is our quarterback. It's his team. We're following his lead," safety Tony Jefferson said. "We know how big of a leader he can be, and how special he can be on the football field. He's putting in the work, and that's the type of guy he is."

https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post...ws-rave-reviews

j/c:

I though Bob Evans was the sausage guy?

None of that is an agenda. That's people being sensitive to a choice of words. I haven't asked for Baker to be benched. I haven't said he needs to be replaced. I actually said for all our sakes I hope he turns out to be the guy.

There are people on on here who are very sensitive to Baker criticism.

How could a good back up QB have taken us to the playoffs if Baker weren't benched? Things that make you go hmmmm.....

If you constantly talk about building the team for the long haul and not just this year and then fire your hand-picked coach after "just this year," you'd better expect some blowback.

Blowback isn't something you get from a lynch mob.

Nothing to do with sensitivity and I really don't care what people think about Baker. But saying you know Baker isn't the guy and he's not a winner only to follow it up that's there's no anti-Baker agenda. I simply don't believe you.

You're implying I want Baker to fail.

He currently is, but I don't.

I don't agree with that at all - and if this were indeed true, I think there are enough analysts breaking down the Browns that we would see it shown and broken down.

We have WR's running open on some plays - yes. Often - no.

When it happens does it get shown and examined (like when OBJ was open in the last game but Baker was locked on to Landry underneath?) ... yes. And that might create a false impression that it's happening all the time. Being at one of the games I certainly didn't see it happen much at all. I'd be interested to hear from others at more of the games.

Do I think Baker misses more open receivers than he should - yes. Can he improve? I don't know.

We pretty much agree. Baker misses too many open WR's. The rest is nothing more than a matter of semantics.

When you call Baker an unlikable Jerk and prefer to ignore many of the glaring obstacles that Baker and the whole offense is having to overcome - that's when you imply that you aren't being impartial with your view on Baker. As is insisting you judge OBJ as a HOF WR based on his reputation and ignoring his many drops and performance on the field this year.

I think "the obstacles Baker has had to overcome" have been highly exaggerated on this board.

I sure hope they keep Shobert, but I know they won't.

Just remember, we as fans, are not allowed to have nice things.

He is an unlikable jerk to me. It doesn't mean I don't want him to succeed. I want to win games. I'm beginning to think it will never happen.

Also, I think one of Baker's obstacles is Baker.

I am not. I was simply pointing out that your theory that the guys didn't spend any time together in the off season was false.

Jesus, Tony.

Did I really just read this??

Right - amazing.

Mayfield is the best QB the Browns have had, by far, since 99, and yet, you get this crap.

He has to actually deliver a winning season before he can be crowned the best since 99.

So far, that’s still couch and DA.

Ugh. Only two winnings seasons since 1999. That kind of ineptitude is truly remarkable.

Priefer says we shouldn't complain though. Hey, he's a positive guy!

If we're being honest, that bar isn't very high. We still aren't close to where we need to be for top half of league in terms of QB play. So while he may be better than what we have had, doesn't mean he's the guy yet to take us anywhere

I'm not as down on Priefer as you are. I don't really care about what he said. He's the special teams coach. I'd be mad if Freddie or Baker were saying it. Like I said I think he's done a good job. He knows he's about to switch teams again and is hoping it doesn't happen. Another team, another move. Plus he's from the area.

Under his watch we found our kicker and punter for the long term. Coverage is outstanding. And there are no gaffes on special teams. Get him a returner and that rank probably moves up.

I would not mind retaining him under the new coach similar to how Tabor survived all those years.

+10000 on a new returner

I have wondered why they don't have Hunt back there returning kickoffs

Is that the criteria now - LOL. 7-7 is close enough...

So far Derek Anderson is the best Browns QB I've ever seen.

I’m sorry.
I hope this changes. I can’t imagine being a fan if this team and not having all those memories from the 80’s to keep me going.

Tim Couch is the best that I can remember. I was born in 85, but I don't really recall much from the 90s as I lived in Florida then and it was really really hard to watch a game in those days outside of the market. lol

The best I can remember is the stretch with Holcomb/Couch when we had Butch ... the RUN WILLIAM RUN is the highlight of my fandom

Me too after we lost the Real Browns. The next year was just as bad as this year.

My Dad took me to a game in Otto Graham's last season. I was 6 or 7. I can't say I really remember Otto, though I do remember my Dad telling me to watch him. I was more excited about sitting with my Dad at my first Browns game. As overwhelming as my first Indians game...the greenest grass I ever saw.

Modern QBs really don't know. The days of the drop back QB who scans the field have been over at the HS and College level for 15 years or more.

I have to give the Ravens credit, they were the first team to go all in on the modern QB.

The college game is no longer going to train QB's to be NFL qb's because the high schools have long ago abandoned the drop back system, but hey, I told y'all this was going to happen 15 years ago.

Tebow was born about 5 years too soon.


Baker isn't fast, but he needs to keep running the ball. He can makes it work.


In todays NFL, if your QB can't run, you are playing half a man short.

You’re forgetting guys like wentz, Watson, Allen, Wilson, Darnold, tannehil, mahomes, carr, Prescott, Jones, trubisky, Rodgers, Newton, and Murray. All guys who aren’t traditional drop back passers, but really dual threats, or close to it. They have wheels and will gash you if you aren’t paying attention.

Lamar might be the most athletic out of all of them, but the style itself is no longer cyclical. It’s here bro. And these LBs and D linemen are too fast today to be drafting pure pocket passers.