DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Impeachment: Tears of the Sun

Trump has that bunch in the bag arch.

Just chiming in for the first time since it became official, love all the GOPer tears over Nancy's little Christmas present all done up with a bow. At minimum, Trump who has acted disgracefully in office can now where the 'I' scarlet letter to his grave. If ole Moscow Mitch wasn't on Putin's payroll too, there might have even been a chance at a fair trial and removal, but we all know that's a farce. I'm glad Nancy is sweating them boys real good right now. It would be nice if a little more of the truth could come out on this in the Senate trial. Not some conspiracy theory version of crap that never happened, but honest fact based provable truth.

Just got out of the hospital today and pretty miserable with a bad case of flu, so doubt I'll answer any responses. later, Go Browns.

I expected more out of you.

But, if you can't get 'passed' something, it's on you, not me.

Was the article factual? In your humble opinion.

No it was not factual - although it contained facts. As I mentioned - it said the Dossier was totally debunked. It wasn't.

Did the Clinton campaign pay for the Dossier (even if not the initiator)? That was my understanding before and it still is.

Does that make her guilty of collusion? No.

Does it absolve what Trump's closest allies did - you know, the ones in jail? No.

Does it mean that it's okay to coerce foreign govt's into digging dirt on your rivals and withhold funds appropriated by Congress? No.

Assuming Clinton was the devil incarnate and slept or paid her way through the whole of the Russian government and Putin himself .... would it make the things Trump has done ok? No.

Do I want Clinton held to a different standard than Trump - absolutely not, nor any other politician in any party at any level of govt. . . . And that seems to be one of the gigantic differences here - Trump supporters wish to lynch anyone who speaks out against Trump and hold them to a different standard than their false idol. Facts and testimony from reputable people who have served Democratic leadership and Republican leadership alike don't matter. Just look at the Ukraine call and impeachment - it's not about Trump for the Republicans, it's about Hunter Biden and Process, anything accept looking at what Trump did and said.

k. While you make some points, you totally miss the gist. I expected that.

No tears. Nancy earned a new name that she will carry on her way out of the 'Speaker of the House'.

When it's your son, the drug addict, who got a job doing something he knew nothing about, to the tune of some $50,000 a month, but the son is being investigated, and you hold back a billion in aid (probably voted on by congress, by the way)...........yeah, what did that have to do with anything? So It’s the collective opinion that the Biden campaign, any political candidate or the POTUS himself that it’s ok and can ask a favor for a price of any foreign entity/country to investigate the trump children now? Let’s get them going people. What are we waiting for. What are their qualifications for the positions they hold? What druging backgrounds do they have? Investigate them all. The GOP’ers always commit the exact crimes and corruption they falsely blame on their rivals. Why, because they think since they do it everybody does.

A stark call for Trump's removal by an evangelical Christian magazine suggests he could lose a previously rock-solid part of his base

-An evangelical Christian magazine called for Trump's removal after he was impeached by the House, citing his "immoral" dealings with Ukraine.

-Christianity Today's editor-in-chief said Trump violated the Constitution and questioned his high level of support among evangelicals in light of his "blackened moral record" — suggesting that support damages the community's reputation.

-Evangelical Christians formed one of Trump's most solid voting blocs in 2016 and have largely stuck by him, but some have questioned the support in light of some of Trump's opinions and actions, including his multiple divorces.

-The magazine was founded by the late famous televangelist Billy Graham, who Trump repeatedly phrased. Trump also spoke at his memorial in 2018.


Evangelical Christian magazine Christianity Today called for Trump to be removed from office after he was impeached by the US House in a stark call that suggests a slip in support from a previously rock-solid part of his base.

Mark Galli, the editor-in-chief of the magazine that was founded by the late famous televangelist Billy Graham, referenced Trump's dealings with Ukraine – dealings that led to his impeachment by the House of Representatives on Wednesday.

He wrote in an editorial under the under the headline "Trump Should Be Removed from Office" that "the facts in this instance are unambiguous: the president of the United States attempted to use his political power to coerce a foreign leader to harass and discredit one of the president's political opponents.

"That is not only a violation of the Constitution; more importantly, it is profoundly immoral," he wrote.

A call memo produced by the White House itself shows Trump asked Ukraine's president to investigate Joe Biden, the former vice-president and one of Trump's 2020 election candidates, in a July phone call.

Trump insists that the memo proves that he did nothing wrong, but the House voted to charge Trump with abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. This sets up a trial in the Senate, which will likely see Trump acquitted and — out of line with Christianity Today's newly expressed wishes — kept in office.

Evangelical Christians emerged as one of Trump's most solid bases during his presidential campaign, and 2016 exit polls found that 80% of the demographic voted for him in 2016.

The demographic is one that leans Republican, but this high level of support for Trump himself is one that many have tried to understand in light of some actions from Trump, including his past divorces, comments about immigrants, and sexual assault allegations made against him.

Galli, in his editorial, called directly to those evangelical Christians who have continued to support Trump despite what he called the president's "blackened moral record."

"Remember who you are and whom you serve," he wrote. "Consider how your justification of Mr. Trump influences your witness to your Lord and Savior."

He also suggested that the community's support of Trump harmed its image among those without the same beliefs: "Consider what an unbelieving world will say if you continue to brush off Mr. Trump's immoral words and behavior in the cause of political expediency."

Galli did not say if he thought Trump should be removed by the Senate, or by 2020 voters choosing not to re-elect him, saying it was a matter of "prudential judgment."

But he highlighted what he said were examples of compromised morality from Trump.

"This president has dumbed down the idea of morality in his administration. He has hired and fired a number of people who are now convicted criminals.

"He himself has admitted to immoral actions in business and his relationship with women, about which he remains proud. His Twitter feed alone — with its habitual string of mischaracterizations, lies, and slanders — is a near perfect example of a human being who is morally lost and confused."

Galli also noted that the magazine does not often take political stances but that it was similarly critical of former president Bill Clinton during impeachment proceedings against him in 1998.

"Unfortunately, the words that we applied to Mr. Clinton 20 years ago apply almost perfectly to our current president," he said.

Trump has praised Graham, the magazine's founder, before. He spoke at a memorial service for Graham at the US Capitol in 2018, where he recalled that his father was a fan.

And if his magazine has broken with Trump, there is no suggestion that Graham's family has.

His son, Franklin Graham, said in 2018 that Trump "defends the Christian faith more than any president in my lifetime."

However, his granddaughter, Jerushah Armfield, criticized Trump in 2017: "I think we can look at his life, look at the intolerance that he's spoken, I think that my Jesus that I follow was really somebody who fought for the outliers, and I think that Trump has actually done the opposite — kind of ostracizing them."

Other evangelicals have also previously broken their support for Trump over his actions.

Pastor AR Bernard left the White House's evangelical advisory board in 2017 over Trump's response to violent protests in Charlottesville, saying there was a "deepening conflict in values" between him and Trump's administration.

https://www.businessinsider.com/evangeli...office-2019-12/

He still has the KKK and Hannity.

Thursday, December 19, 2019

A Leader of Grossly Immoral Character: The Chosen One Gets Unchosen

byAbby Zimet, Further columnist
link


Jesus, Mary and Joseph! Remember when everyone said President* Impeachment would never lose the support of see-no-evil-hear-no-evil evangelicals? As God is our witness, he just did. After hearings that "illuminated the president’s moral deficiencies for all to see," Christianity Today, the flagship magazine for evangelicals founded by Billy Graham, has just issued a scathing editorial calling for the unholy Trump to be removed from office due to his "blackened moral record." Trump's evangelical support has long prompted outrage from legitimate Christians, who cite the cognitive dissonance of abetting a cruel, lying, thieving, adulterous thug and vow to "reclaim Jesus (from) white evangelical captivity." But it remains bafflingly, infuriatingly high: 82% say they'd vote for him again, and almost all oppose impeachment. So the harsh censure from the movement's major magazine - whose 80,000-plus subscribers include many evangelical leaders and high-profile pastors - is a welcome shocker. Acknowledging as much in his editorial, Mark Galli notes "the typical CT approach is to stay above the fray" and treat those with different political convictions "as charitably as possible." But Trump's impeachment, he says, "requires comment....There are times to be charitable. There are times to say, ‘No, I’m not going any further.’”

The impeachment hearings "have illuminated the president's moral deficiencies for all to see," Galli writes. "None of the president's positives (sic) can balance the moral and political danger we face under a leader of such grossly immoral character." Galli cites the felons, crimes, women; just the Twitter feed is "a near perfect example of a human being who is morally lost and confused." He revisits the Clinton impeachment, "when a president's character was revealed for what it was," with "unsavory dealings and immoral acts" that mirror Trump's own. Removal by any means necessary is a matter of loyalty to both the Constitution and "the Creator of the Ten Commandments," he writes. And he adds a warning to evangelicals who still support Trump "in spite of his blackened moral record: Remember who you are and whom you serve." Because this is, still and all, a zealot, he injects the ultimate mixed message of the "great evil" of abortion in order to insist that "the bent and broken character of our nation's leader (must) matter in the end." His wake-up call, however little and late, was applauded by many charitable, albeit atheist souls on social media, who acknowledged there may, after all, be a God. "OUCH that’s gotta be some good jesus salt in the wound," wrote one. And, "You can get a whoa and an Amen on that."

Evangelical Magazine Denounces 'Grossly Immoral' Trump
Christianity Today says he should be removed from office


By Rob Quinn, Newser Staff
Posted Dec 20, 2019 2:20 AM CST
link


(NEWSER) – In a troubling sign for President Trump, leading evangelical magazine Christianity Today denounced him as a "leader of grossly immoral character" Thursday and called for him to be removed from office. Impeachment appears to have been the final straw for editor-in-chief Mark Galli, who writes that although the process was flawed, it was "profoundly immoral" for Trump to attempt to "use his political power to coerce a foreign leader to harass and discredit one of the president’s political opponents." That Trump "should be removed, we believe, is not a matter of partisan loyalties but loyalty to the Creator of the Ten Commandments," writes Galli. The magazine, which was founded by Billy Graham, saw its website crash Thursday night from the increased traffic, USA Today reports.

"To the many evangelicals who continue to support Mr. Trump in spite of his blackened moral record, we might say this: Remember who you are and whom you serve," writes Galli. "We have reserved judgment" on Trump for years, he writes, but now is the time to warn that "no matter how many hands we win in this political poker game, we are playing with a stacked deck of gross immorality and ethical incompetence," and at some point, the game "will crash down on the reputation of evangelical religion." Galli tells the Washington Post that he decided to write the editorial hours after the impeachment vote. "l hate doing editorials like this," he says. "People are going to say mean, nasty things and say how much they hate me or hate the magazine." Click for the full editorial. (Read more Christianity Today

Evangelicals determining what is immoral is rather ironic.

What? Wanting 16 year olds to raise their rape babies is questionable morality?
What about hiding pedophiles in their midst?

That said, I’ll take their casting out of trump. It shows us they think he’s worse than child rape or pedophilia.

Franklin Graham slams Christianity Today for invoking father's name in call for Trump's removal

The son of the late pastor Billy Graham said his father would have been "disappointed" by Christianity Today's editorial calling for the removal of President Trump, which was widely celebrated by the left and crashed its website.

Evangelist Franklin Graham accused the Christian magazine of invoking his father's name to represent "the elitist liberal wing of evangelicalism."

https://www.foxnews.com/media/trump-graham-christianity-today-remove-billy-franklin-impeach

'Unfathomable': Franklin Graham slams Christianity Today for demanding Trump's removal


by Jon Brown


December 20, 2019 02:44 AM



Evangelist Franklin Graham tore into the magazine his father founded after the flagship evangelical publication called for President Trump to be removed from office.

In a statement posted to Facebook on Thursday night, Graham wrote, "Christianity Today released an editorial stating that President Trump should be removed from office, and they invoked my father’s name (I suppose to try to bring legitimacy to their statements), so I feel it is important for me to respond."


Conceding that his father helped establish the periodical in 1956, Franklin Graham maintained that Billy Graham, who died in 2018 at age 99, would not countenance the viewpoints espoused by the editorial board against the president. "Yes, my father Billy Graham founded Christianity Today," Graham wrote, "but no, he would not agree with their opinion piece. In fact, he would be very disappointed."

Revealing that the last vote his father cast was for Trump, Franklin went on to claim that Billy Graham "knew Donald Trump, he believed in Donald Trump, and he voted for Donald Trump. He believed that Donald J. Trump was the man for this hour in history for our nation."

[Opinion: Growing number of 'exvangelicals' and nonreligious millennials will have dire political consequences]

"For Christianity Today to side with the Democrat Party in a totally partisan attack on the President of the United States is unfathomable," Graham continued. He pointed to the lopsided vote in the House of Representatives on Wednesday, in which no Republican voted in favor of impeachment. "I know a number of Republicans in Congress, and many of them are strong Christians," said Graham. "If the President were guilty of what the Democrats claimed, these Republicans would have joined with the Democrats to impeach him."

"This impeachment was politically motivated, 100% partisan," Graham asserted. "Why would Christianity Today choose to take the side of the Democrat left whose only goal is to discredit and smear the name of a sitting president?" Graham closed out his statement by saying that Christianity Today "has moved to the left and is representing the elitist liberal wing of evangelicalism."

Graham then cited Trump's accomplishments for people of faith, such as opposing abortion and mitigating the reach of the Islamic State. Graham has been a staunch supporter of the president and has claimed that "a demonic power" is fueling the fury behind impeachment and the political turmoil roiling the nation.



Mark Galli, the editor-in-chief of Christianity Today, asserted Thursday that Trump's July 25 phone call to the Ukrainian president was "profoundly immoral" and that the case against him was "unambiguous."

"The president of the United States attempted to use his political power to coerce a foreign leader to harass and discredit one of the president’s political opponents," Galli wrote. The magazine went on to rebuke the evangelicals who back Trump, warning that their support "will crash down on the reputation of evangelical religion and on the world’s understanding of the gospel."

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/...-trumps-removal

Funny - one Evangelical clearly states that what trump did and the evidence against him is unambiguous. The other says the whole impeachment thing is totally political and Partisan .... his basis for claiming so is based on the fact that he knows some Christian Republicans, and they would have voted for impeachment if the allegations were true.

Which of these Gentlemen is looking at the facts? And which of these gentlemen is actually being 100% Partisan?

What a great example of what the country and the Trump supporters do. And then the article gets posted by a pro-Trump supporter as if somehow the article and mindless/thoughtless/factless reaction by Franklin Graham supports Trump.

Neither.

Both.

Hypocrites.

If people got impeached solely for "immorality", DC would be a ghost town.

People don't get impeached. President's too. But that's good deflection.

Nah cause me and the homies would be posted up in DC. All the Kurds have to do is hook me up with an ounce of some fire weed, and congrats, I’ll recognize them as an official country in the next UN meeting.

All "civil officers" can be impeached. I thought the DC reference made it clear which people I was referring to.

That was a poor attempt at deflection on your part.

Straw man arguments are popular these days, mainly with people that don't understand the underpinnings of logic. They rather use the term, "logic," incorrectly to describe anything they agree with.

Sadly, there's not enough time in a lifetime to spell everything out, every time, for people stuck in a blindered paradigm who are unwilling to look at things from another perspective.

LOL. Thanks for that. I think it's wildly misplaced, and think you need to turn that mirror ever so slightly.

As for impeachment - thanks for educating me on that.

j/c



Now let's just look at that for a moment. According to Graham, if you aren't a Trump supporter, it appears you don't believe in the Bible. And people who call themselves Christians support this man?



Exactly the par for the course response from Tweeter Dumb that you would expect.



Praise the Lord!





Dear Trump supporters. Please do not believe the continued lies he stated here. You see, if Trump is removed from office, Pence would become president. Now unless you consider Pence a "Radical Left nonbeliever, who wants to take your religion & your guns", it's obvious Trump is just spreading more of his BS. Maybe Trump just doesn't have a clue how any of this works?

The anticipated results from Tweeter Dumb.

Pelosi’s problem: Dems' own witness says Trump not truly impeached unless articles go to Senate

Consider it a twist on the old question about a tree falling in the forest with no one to hear it: If the House adopts articles of impeachment but never sends them to the Senate, is a president truly impeached?

A Harvard law professor, who also served as a Democrat-called impeachment witness, answered with a resounding “no” in a column that speaks to the deep dilemma House Speaker Nancy Pelosi faces as she sits on two articles of impeachment against President Trump.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pelosis...es-go-to-senate

BAWHAHAHAhahahahaha... The House even managed to screw this up!

You are in denial he was impeached. They are beginning counseling sessions for that all over the country since it seems to be an epidemic. I will pray for you.

At least you have Putin on your side comrade.



I guess there actually is progress being made in trade talks with Russia.

Republicans are spreading Russian propaganda with the Ukraine conspiracy while Russia is spreading Republican propaganda about impeachment.

This is idiotic.. Sorry man, but this is a smooth move by Pelosi.. it's driving Trump crazy. he wants the Senate to get it and move past it to exonerate him as quickly as possible.

that's what Trump wants... But Pelosi is saying hold on there bubba. We aren't giving you the articles until we know that it's going to be a fair and honest trial....

As of right now, McConnell and Graham have said they've made up their minds and that they will end the trial quickly.

McConnell has said he's working with the President and the White House team to address the issue and address how they intend to defend the president..

Just to show you how illegal that is, try this on for size.

How would you feel if you were the victim and the State AG said, hey, I'm going to work with the perps council to see how he wants to be defended..

See how fricken cockeyed that is...

Both McConnell and Graham have stated, they aren't impartial,, yet, the oath they'll have to take from Roberts will make them commit to being impartial....

They will break the law for this idiot and you seem to be OK with it.

Here is the oath all senators must take before an impeachment trial....



McConnell;

“I'm not an impartial juror,” McConnell said. “This is a political process. There is not anything judicial about it. Impeachment is a political decision . . . I'm not impartial about this at all.”

Graham;

“This thing will come to the Senate, and it will die quickly, and I will do everything I can to make it die quickly,” he said. “I am trying to give a pretty clear signal I have made up my mind. I’m not trying to pretend to be a fair juror here.”

They've both made it clear that the oath they will be taking "so help me God" means nothing. That the oath they will take is a lie. And Republicans support that.

Sounds eerily similar - or IDENTICAL to what the house did. C'mon, you KNOW the house had him impeached before the vote.
It's illegal? I'd probably feel the same as trump does/did about the house vote.

And the house was impartial? Please.



Look, the dem's got what they wanted for 3 years. Enjoy it. It may hurt trump, it may help him - who knows. The house is done though.

Cop out again. There is one side that will actually call out their own while the other side ignores the immorality of their elected leaders they support. So you can stop copping out with the both sides do it routine.

I understand why some would excuse people for taking an oath under God as nothing wrong when you admit you're going to lie when you take that oath.

Things I never expected to be taken as normal seem to be fine these days.

Bull appears to be that Trump supporter that wants to appear pseudo open and fair - while all the time reinforcing the half truths and deflections that Trump pedals. I keep hearing he dislikes Trump but I keep hearing the Trump propaganda in his posts.

One side actually calls out their own? There are certain things that both sides will call their own on, but many more things that both let slide.

Were you that kid, mgh, that put his fingers in his ears, stuck out his tongue, and slobbered all over himself while shouting, "I know you are, but what am I?" over and over again until he goes hoarse? It "appears" you were. (Calling someone a Trump supporter is much worse than that, so please don't throw a tantrum)

Saying the Democrats' argument sucks isn't a defense of Trump. It's saying they need to improve their argument.

Intent and motivation are other things Democrats and their supporters seem to have trouble understanding.

there's just absolutely no way the president is this freaking dumb. i refuse to believe it. good lord no wonder all the world leaders laugh and make fun at this dude. omg....

George Conway's new nickname for Trump starts trend: 'IMPOTUS'

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-...s-trend-impotus

IMPOTUS!!!

You keep insulting me personally and baiting me. It says a lot.

As I said - you keep saying you dislike Trump - you then continually pedal his lies and talking points. That's not me shouting anything - it's an observation.

You're right. I shouldn't reply in turn.

I really should stop "pedaling" (another misused word.)

I don't care which side is saying something. If it's false, I'll call them on it. If they have a point, I'll admit it.

I'll still dislike Trump. I'll probably still think the Democrats are doing a lousy job of making their argument, and thus, dislike them for their incompetence, too.

The implication being that you were reverting to personal attacks as a result of a personal attack? Yeah - that's not what happened.

As for the Democrats and impeachment - i think it's pretty straight forward. I think what Trump did - with-hold funds, coerce Ukraine to launch an investigation into his political rival for no other purpose than to undermine an opponent - is impeachable. It is not the sort of action I think we need to go unchecked and provide a historical precedent that will allow future presidents to do more of the same. Personally I think we have enough evidence of what happened and testimony from reputable individuals - coupled with the actions of the WH that are highly questionable - from withholding the funds in the first place, to locking away the transcript of the call, to refusing to respond to subpoenas to releasing the funds as a result of the Whistle-blower .... it's a slam dunk.

Are the Dems perfect? No. Are there idiots on the fringes who have been calling for Trump's impeachment even when there was nothing to impeach him for? Yes. Does that excuse Trump for what he did now? No. Would I criticize the Dems and scrutinize them as much as Trump? No.... why? Because they are not in Power, what Trump says, tweets and does impacts every aspect of our culture. What AOC does and says is immaterial to 99.5% of Americans.

Since Trump's claims are he did nothing wrong, I wonder why he refuses to let people testify and refuses to turn over all of those documents? I mean that would prove he did nothing wrong according to Trump.

As usual, the cover up is at least as bad as the crime. Even Nixon knew you couldn't obstruct congress in an impeachment investigation.

I think the withholding of documents and preventing people from testifying is damning - but I wouldn't presume guilt based on that by itself. I think simply what is already known and has been testified to is enough - you add the WH interference to prevent evidence coming to light - and it makes it worse!

I take it as yet another piece of the puzzle. Trying to hide everything speaks volumes.

It's the laughable way Republicans try to frame it. "You don't have first hand accounts."

When it's Trump blocking those with first hand accounts from testifying.

Ken Starr: Nancy Pelosi's impeachment freeze 'constitutionally' wrong

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., is "constitutionally wrong" in stalling the transfer of two articles of impeachment to the Senate, former Whitewater Independent Counsel Ken Starr said Saturday.

Starr said that while an "impeachment is an impeachment by any other name," Harvard legal scholar Noah Feldman -- one of the Democrats' witnesses who testified in favor of impeachment -- is "making a really good point."

In a Bloomberg op-ed, Feldman cautioned that, in order to officially impeach the president, Pelosi must send the articles of impeachment to the Republican-led Senate. He said that while she can delay sending the articles, she cannot do so for an "indefinite" period of time.

"it's an impeachment with a footnote or with an asterisk," Starr said. "By the way, it never went over to the Senate, which I think means that it's a bit of a phony impeachment."

"She appears to be intruding into the power of the Senate which is ironic in the extreme, isn't it?" Starr said. "So, I think there is an abuse of House power in the way that this process unfolded in the House and riding rough-shod over minority rights and, ultimately, the rights of the president."

"Now she's trying to essentially tell the Senate how to do its business...and it's just wrong constitutionally," he stated.

Holding the articles of impeachment and asking for assurances about a Senate trial is akin to asking for a quid pro quo.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/ken-starr-impeachment-noah-feldman-nancy-pelosi-trump

Quid Pro Quo Nancy? How unbecoming!