Haslam moved to the back room because of the success of Dorsey. The second half rise of the team. Freddie's perceived involvement and results. The press and hype created expectations.
Those expectations were not met. Now the media has turned.
Freddie has looked bad. The results have turned to failures. Bad loses to weak teams. Freddie's public image has taken a beating.
Haslam went with Dorsey on the Freddie hire but he may well have had reservations.
I don't see Haslam as step back owner. He made mistakes and his results failed. So when "he" hired Dorsey and that went well. He then stepped back and gave Dorsey the lead.
All of that is now gone.
If Haslam wants to make a change; he will.
He will bring Dorsey in and listen. How that goes who knows? Dorsey may well turn on Freddie.
Jim Caldwell is really who I think we should be looking at.
He has two Super Bowl rings as an Assistant(Colts & Ravens)
He got to the Super Bowl as a head coach in 2009 with the Colts and lost to the Saints.
He has a proven track record of steady success, I mean he got the God awful Detroit Lions to the Playoffs twice in four years.
Caldwell is exactly the kinda coach we need. I think he can co-exist with Dorsey. He is very good with QB's, I really believe he can help Mayfield a lot, and he isn't adverse to running the ball.
This town will like Caldwell, and Caldwell hires an OC lets them call the plays so he can focus on coaching the team.
This guy would be a great hire for us. I have always been a fan of Caldwell, his teams have always been well coached.
Peyton Manning has raved about how good of a coach Jim Caldwell is, Manning said Caldwell made him a better QB and a better decision maker with the ball:
Simply, Manning said Caldwell made him a better quarterback.
In Indianapolis, Caldwell stressed fundamentals, the importance of routine and that everything -- from drills in practice to discussions in Wednesday and Thursday meetings -- had a specific purpose.
“The discipline of having that routine really made an impact on me,” Manning said. “I really felt like I just sort of took a step up during the years that he was my quarterbacks coach.”
So understand they are intertwined. Even the way they speak -- measured, careful not to give too much away but also adding stories here and there -- is similar.
One of the things Caldwell possibly took from Manning in Indianapolis was a desire for completions. This seems bizarre -- everyone wants completed passes -- but when Caldwell arrived in Detroit, completion percentage was one of the two things he stressed most to Matthew Stafford.
Part of that could come from Caldwell’s experiences with Manning.
“The thing that Peyton has done that has been really good is he has always been completion-driven,” said Lions backup quarterback Dan Orlovsky, who also played in Indianapolis in 2011. “Getting the ball out of your hands and into other players’ hands, and I think that is a thing that Jim has always stressed is being completion-driven and completions are good.
“So I think that’s one thing that you don’t want to be safe, you want to be smart. I think that’s a thing that has transferred over. Fundamentals. Basics.”
Fundamentals were a Caldwell trademark with Manning. The daily drills started to mirror throws Manning would make in games. It made Manning become a more accurate quarterback -- he never had a season under 65 percent completion percentage with Caldwell as a coach -- and a better decision-maker. Manning’s interceptions were consistently lower during Caldwell’s tenure than they were prior to his arrival.
this is the guy we want im telling ya. He will have a field day with Chubb, Hunt, OBJ, and Landry, and Caldwell can probably rescue Mayfields career.
IMO the decision whether to keep Freddie or let him go will all boil down to a simple formula. A GM brings in the talent and assembles your roster. It's up to the HC to maximize the results that talent achieves. In the case of a first time NFL HC you look at progress and growth over the course of his first season to help determine if you think he has the potential to maximize the roster potential.
The answer to those questions determines the decision you make regarding your HC's future. When looking at those questions from my vantage point, I think the answer will be that Dorsey decides to move on away from Freddie into another direction.
Because the job of the GM is to look at what a HC has done with the talent he's been given.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Jim Caldwell is really who I think we should be looking at.
He has two Super Bowl rings as an Assistant(Colts & Ravens)
He got to the Super Bowl as a head coach in 2009 with the Colts and lost to the Saints.
He has a proven track record of steady success, I mean he got the God awful Detroit Lions to the Playoffs twice in four years.
Caldwell is exactly the kinda coach we need. I think he can co-exist with Dorsey. He is very good with QB's, I really believe he can help Mayfield a lot, and he isn't adverse to running the ball.
This town will like Caldwell, and Caldwell hires an OC lets them call the plays so he can focus on coaching the team.
This guy would be a great hire for us. I have always been a fan of Caldwell, his teams have always been well coached.
Peyton Manning has raved about how good of a coach Jim Caldwell is, Manning said Caldwell made him a better QB and a better decision maker with the ball:
Simply, Manning said Caldwell made him a better quarterback.
In Indianapolis, Caldwell stressed fundamentals, the importance of routine and that everything -- from drills in practice to discussions in Wednesday and Thursday meetings -- had a specific purpose.
“The discipline of having that routine really made an impact on me,” Manning said. “I really felt like I just sort of took a step up during the years that he was my quarterbacks coach.”
So understand they are intertwined. Even the way they speak -- measured, careful not to give too much away but also adding stories here and there -- is similar.
One of the things Caldwell possibly took from Manning in Indianapolis was a desire for completions. This seems bizarre -- everyone wants completed passes -- but when Caldwell arrived in Detroit, completion percentage was one of the two things he stressed most to Matthew Stafford.
Part of that could come from Caldwell’s experiences with Manning.
“The thing that Peyton has done that has been really good is he has always been completion-driven,” said Lions backup quarterback Dan Orlovsky, who also played in Indianapolis in 2011. “Getting the ball out of your hands and into other players’ hands, and I think that is a thing that Jim has always stressed is being completion-driven and completions are good.
“So I think that’s one thing that you don’t want to be safe, you want to be smart. I think that’s a thing that has transferred over. Fundamentals. Basics.”
Fundamentals were a Caldwell trademark with Manning. The daily drills started to mirror throws Manning would make in games. It made Manning become a more accurate quarterback -- he never had a season under 65 percent completion percentage with Caldwell as a coach -- and a better decision-maker. Manning’s interceptions were consistently lower during Caldwell’s tenure than they were prior to his arrival.
this is the guy we want im telling ya. He will have a field day with Chubb, Hunt, OBJ, and Landry, and Caldwell can probably rescue Mayfields career.
I like the idea of Caldwell, he's been successful at every stop. His worse season was 2-14 after manning was out for year. But he took detroit to 11-5..i'll take that here. He's only had one season losing more than 9 games. We actually interviewed him before hiring kitchens. So I'm not sure I trust Dorsey with another coaching hire.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
You say some whacked stuff on here, but Caldwell is actually something I can get behind.
I can’t think of a more bleh hire than Jim Caldwell.
He is probably the best we can get though.
There is a 1% chance McCarthy is coming here. We burned that bridge last year when Dorsey offered him the job with the requirement he keep Kitchens as his offensive Coordinator. McCarthy declined, don't think McCarthy with his resume is interested working in a place where a GM is going to try and dictate his staff to him. It would one thing if he was just a coordinator or 1st time HC, but he isn't.
I say McCarthy ends up with the NY Jets or the Carolina Panthers.
I'd take Caldwell over any of the college options...Rhule, Meyer, they are the wrong kina hire for this team.
Caldwell will be that stabilizing factor, and we will win with him. He has only had one season of losing 9 or more games.
He may not be a flashy hire, but he is the best NFL Head coaching option out there right now. 2 Super Bowl Rings, been to the Super Bowl as a head coach, took two different franchises in different conferences to the playoffs. What more would people want?
One thing that is interesting is the response from Wilks today. Saying Freddie is the right guy and it takes time to build a culture. He knows what one and done is like.
Of course his comments have to be taken with a grain of salt. Because he would end up out the door as well.
With or without Myles the defense underachieved. I had major issues with a lot of the things I saw from Wilks scheme.
The hard pill for Dorsey is he went through a very detailed process to decide on Freddie. Super important to him because his intent was of course to build a sustainable highly competitive team. Dorsey had a lot riding on Freddie. So for him to pull the plug after a year: not easy at all.
The big meeting will take place Monday after the season ends this Sunday.
Both parties Dorsey and Haslam are grinding right now.
I have mixed feelings. I hate the thought of firing Freddie and going through another coach search. for many reasons. One being because you can have your guy in sight and don't land him.
The others are obvious. All the crap that goes with change.
Freddie? His "image" is not the bright, young, innovative, genius. The Sean McVay look.
Freddie seems like a good guy. I think he knows the game. But once in the saddle man; it is a different deal.
Freddie kept saying very early on "adversity will strike". He probably didn't expect a knockout punch.
I wanted Freddie to succeed badly. But damn, he really made some bone head moves.
Can he learn and really grow from all that has taken place? That is a really hard question to answer. In fact the only way to answer that question is for him to remain as coach and find out.
Youth and health. He'll be 65 in a couple weeks, and he had to take a medical leave from his job with Miami this year due to an undisclosed health issue.
I believe we are pretty much on the same page here. I'm actually not going to be upset whether Freddie stays or goes. I could understand the decision either way. I'm just not sure I saw steady progress over the season with which to give Freddie a vote of confidence.
I have to keep in mind that the NFL isn't the same as what we grew up with. Of course the goal of winning is the same, however the money involved has changed the sport we grew up loving into more of a corporate structure than a sport. Ungodly amounts of money are paid to both players and coaches it's to the point that being patient in terms of development and growth seem to be no longer tolerated.
I feel that works in terms of both players and coaches. The days of players remaining with the same team over the course of their career is more the exception than the rule. That works from both the aspect of the teams and the players.
It's an evolution that has come over time and one I'm not so sure I'm happy about. Some of the great coaches and players of the game would never be anything but an afterthought given the way things work today. The time it took them to show their true potential would never be tolerated in today's microwave, in an instant NFL.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Youth and health. He'll be 65 in a couple weeks, and he had to take a medical leave from his job with Miami this year due to an undisclosed health issue.
65 is young for an NFL Head Coach
Furthermore, Jim Caldwell is back to full health again, and the Fritz Polard Allaince Chairman Rod Graves has him on the list on to be a head coaching candidate.
He probably just had a routine stint put in or something, the guy is perfectly fine.
Its stent, not "stint", and we have no idea if that is actually what he had done. Nor do we have any way of knowing that he is "perfectly fine". I hope he is, but I don't know and neither do you. I don't think his age alone disqualifies him as long as his health is good, but 65 is not young in anyone's book.
Bruce Arians - 67 Bill Belichick - 67 Bill Callahan - 63 (won't be a head coach in 2020) Pete Carroll - 68 Vic Fangio - 61 Brian Flores - 38 Freddie Kitchens - 45 Jason Garrett - 53 Adam Gase - 41 Jon Gruden - 56 John Harbaugh - 57 Kliff Kingsbury - 40 Matt LaFleur - 40 Perry Fewell - 57 (will not be a head coach in 2020) Anthony Lynn - 51 Doug Marrone - 55 Sean McDermott - 45 Sean McVay - 33 Matt Nagy - 41 Bill O'Brien - 50 Matt Patricia - 45 Sean Payton - 55 Doug Pederson - 51 Dan Quinn - 49 Frank Reich - 58 Andy Reid - 61 Kyle Shanahan - 40 Pat Shurmur - 54 Zac Taylor - 36 Mike Tomlin - 47 Mike Vrabel - 44 Mike Zimmer - 63
Jim Caldwell would be the fourth oldest coach on this list. The average age is 50. Jim Caldwell is not young for an NFL head coach by any definition of the word young.
Jim Caldwell is who you hire if you want to be average. We are already average.
I'm just looking at some names who have HC experience. How come no one ever mentions Leslie Frazier?
He had one of the biggest turnarounds for the Vikings back in 2012 taking them to the playoffs. After being fired after going 5-10-1, he was never given another chance at HC.
One thing that is interesting is the response from Wilks today. Saying Freddie is the right guy and it takes time to build a culture. He knows what one and done is like.
Of course his comments have to be taken with a grain of salt. Because he would end up out the door as well.
The thing is we know how much time it takes to change a culture: It's exactly the amount of time between the moment Hue Jackson was fired and Gregg Williams first practice as interim HC. Now it helped that half the team was already subject to how he ran things already and so it was a super easy transition for them. But he was also able to bring the other half of the team right in to the fold.
This isn't a particular endorsement of GW, but rather an illustration that if you put the right person in the right place, it doesn't take all that long to establish a culture.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things." -Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
Dan Campbell would at least have the personality and approach we’d look for ... not sure if he’ll be considered or not
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Bonefish and Pit make some good points. I am not overly opposed to the idea of bringing Freddie back. Continuity and culture build does take time. But we have to make sure the culture they are trying to build is the culture we want. I see a large lack of discipline. Comments from Blough, who feels there is more structure in losing Detroit is a concern to me. The article posted earlier stated a lack of tackling, and a lack of football strategy. These REALLY concern me. I mean he was out coached by Kliff Kingsbury...handily outcoached in MANY games this year. There has been criticisms from outsiders that collectively say there is no cohesiveness on this team.
These are aspects of the team that fall squarely on the Head Coach. There are also great points when considering First year coaches and past History of first Year Coaches. Names like Parcells, Chuck Noll, Jimmy Johnson, Landry...etc were mentioned. But I think we can all agree that they did not START with a stacked roster as ours. And their bad starts can not wholly be staked on their decisions. Obviously they had some bad decisions as they learned on the job. Perhaps our roster just magnifies those decisions in relation to those in the past.
So in considering keeping Freddie, we have to ask....What has he learned? I can't answer that question because we would expect an improvement every week. But we haven't. The Offense looks lost after the first drive...The Defense looks lost. I am not sure I can point to a single part of the team that has improved from week one to week 17? (Special Teams has been consistent) How did we go from a glutton of receivers in the preseason to looking to undrafted FA's to back up Landry and OBJ??? We had a glutton on the DLine...now we have Sheldon and Larry...and a bunch of practice squad cast offs...
These are questions for Dorsey...And Dorsey will also have to determine what Freddie has learned. And what he plans to do to correct.
If Freddie stays, I would like to know or have some insight on to these things...(not that we will get them...LOL)
As far as replacement if that is the route we choose....I think I go back to the article posted by bonefish. I really like Greg Roman and the DC in SF Robert Saleh.
Both have been successful for multiple years. And I look back to what Roman did last year(and in continuation to this year). By taking the people they had and maximizing their capabilities, I think it is the epitome of what coaches are supposed to do. He built a system for the clay he was given. He didn't try to shape the clay for something it could not do. And now Lamar Jackson is an MVP consideration.
Saleh has done similar things in San Fran making one of the best D's in the League.
These are guys that have "built".
JMO ...
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
I'm just looking at some names who have HC experience. How come no one ever mentions Leslie Frazier?
He had one of the biggest turnarounds for the Vikings back in 2012 taking them to the playoffs. After being fired after going 5-10-1, he was never given another chance at HC.
He went 3-13, 10-6, and 5-10-1 in his three full seasons as Vikings coach. That's pretty underwhelming compared to some of the other past head coaches that are available. He's the DC in Buffalo now and that defense is playing pretty well, so he might get another shot somewhere.
Selah's has been DC for 3 years now, and his defenses have been ranked (scoring) 25, 28, and 6th this season.
They didn't throw him away after 1 or 2 seasons.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Hard to swallow when your hire struggles so. Dorsey is a smart guy he knows the NFL well. He has his ear to ground and will know more about "inside the Browns" and what is behind the scenes with Freddie. Lot's of things we will never know.
Yup ... KJ will know as he has all the info ... i trust KJ ... like we have a choice ... *L* ...
The problem is
we have no clue if Freddies lost the LR ... we have no clue if Freddie is to much a bud and too little a HC We have no clue how much losing Calloway and Higgs getting hurt in game 1 and OBJ not being right all year long hurt ... we have no clue how much if anything Freddie had to do with Bakes regression ... We have no clue how much the injuries piling up every week had to do with some saying Freddie didn’t improve enough ...
There’s a ton we know nothing about .... U and the rest of the mob need someone to blame and Freddie put a big ole target on his back with all his mistakes and thats as far as Y’’all ( 2 for 2 Peen .. ) ... wanna look ... Freddies gonna be the lighting rod for every single thing that went wrong ...
Quote:
He also has a direct take on Haslam. He will read the tea leaves and make a decision based upon all the factors.
IF one of those factors is KJ looking over his shoulder and making FOOTBALL DECISIONS based off what the truck stop owner thinks is right ... once again ... WERE DONE ...
That would also mean KJ is a punk with no backbone ... i don’t think KJ‘s a gutless punk thats going to fire Freddie if he believes in Freddie and the thief don’t ...
Just because owners have the authority to do what they want cause its their toy ... it doesn't mean they should be making football decisions ... the GOOD OWNERS that WIN DON’T DO THAT ...
Quote:
I stated before he may back Freddie. But he will have a hard time selling Haslam. If he believes Freddie blew it he will cut his loss like Corbett.
Sell the thief? ... good lord ... if he needs to sell the thief were in trouble ... if he needs to let the thief know what he's doing and why then we have a shot ...
Quote:
I don't believe Freddie survives.
I have no clue whats gonna happen between now and the end of next week ... the bigger question is ... would u feel that way if u had all the info KJ has? ...
Quote:
I agree he did some good things. He had some solid game plans. But the cons out weigh the pros by a large margin.
I think your frustrated and upset and need someone to lash out and Freddie is the logical target for many reasons including the fact he did so many things wrong and was hard headed ....
Haslam moved to the back room because of the success of Dorsey. The second half rise of the team. Freddie's perceived involvement and results. The press and hype created expectations.
Those expectations were not met. Now the media has turned.
Freddie has looked bad. The results have turned to failures. Bad loses to weak teams. Freddie's public image has taken a beating.
Haslam went with Dorsey on the Freddie hire but he may well have had reservations.
I don't see Haslam as step back owner. He made mistakes and his results failed. So when "he" hired Dorsey and that went well. He then stepped back and gave Dorsey the lead.
All of that is now gone.
If Haslam wants to make a change; he will.
He will bring Dorsey in and listen. How that goes who knows? Dorsey may well turn on Freddie.
However, the Browns are Haslam's team.
He will make the final decision. IMO.
I guess none of us know for sure, but I disagree. The decision was made last year that Dorsey made the football calls. I just don't think the Haslams cut his legs out from under him at this point.
No doubt the owner has input. No doubt the owner and GM have private, closed door talks. Sometimes those talks might influence the GM's final decision...that is why you talk things out, right?
I don't know what is going to happen late Sunday night or Monday morning. I am confident that Dorsey is going to be the one behind the decision and the Haslams will yield to his decision if it is in fact different from their opinion.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Video speaks volumes. From Genard Avery, to Hollywood Higgins and Damarious Randall.. and now Njoku... Freddie and Dorsey have found ways to sit and frustrate some of our best talent.
This cannot be allowed to "go forward" with the "1-0" nonsense as the status quo. If the extent of what FK is capable of doing is reflection and self-evaluation, then he is lousy at it. The dumb stuff and bad judgment keeps coming. If we screw the pooch Sunday, he doesn't have enough dirt to dig the hole any deeper.
I would like some confidence in our sidelines. I lost that a while back. Placekickers you like?
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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) ... wanna look ... Freddies gonna be the lighting rod for every single thing that went wrong ... 
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