DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Short-List of Head Coaching Candidates

Happy birthday, superbrown.

Two NFL sources told me last night that they expect more than just a head coaching change in Cleveland. 2020 will be interesting.

https://twitter.com/mlombardiNFL/status/1210917047208685568

The Athletic's Michael Lombardi reports the Browns are expected to make "more than just a head-coaching change" this offseason.
The Browns have backed Freddie Kitchens despite a disappointing first full season, but it wouldn't be surprising to see them move on. Kitchens hasn't been able to keep the locker room together, with sideline spats with Odell Beckham and Jarvis Landry in recent weeks. Baker Mayfield has also regressed under Kitchens, who's playcalling has been at the center of Cleveland's struggles. Kitchens is very much on the hot seat going into Black Monday. In addition to Kitchens, it sounds like GM John Dorsey's job isn't safe.

https://www.rotoworld.com/football/nfl/p..._medium=twitter

I don’t read much anymore ... missed it ...



Up til now u have only made the case to fire him, hence why i lumped u in with the mob ...



I agree ... only KJ knows whats really going on ... i just hope he makes the decision for purely football reasons and if he still thinks Freddie can become the man as opposed to him keeping Freddie cause Freddie was his hire or hes worried about the thief ...

I’m with Peen on this one .. I think (hope/pray) the thief will let KJ make this decision ...

just clickin'

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/12/27/one-last-look-at-the-pre-week-17-hot-seat/

One last look at the pre-Week 17 hot seat
Posted by Mike Florio on December 27, 2019, 8:56 PM EST

Like Black Friday, Black Monday now starts a day early. So when Sunday rolls around, who will be out?

Here’s a look at the candidates to be coaching elsewhere after the 2019 season ends for their respective teams.

Pat Shurmur, Giants: It’s being regarded as a given that Shurmur will be fired. The Giants haven’t said he’s safe, which means that he’s in danger, grave or otherwise. He’s done poorly in two years on the job, tying the team record for consecutive losses (nine) and winning fewer games than Ben McAdoo, who unlike Shurmur didn’t get to finish his second season. It would be a surprise if Shurmur stays put.

Freddie Kitchens, Browns: The experiment has gone poorly. But dysfunctional teams do dysfunctional things, and it would be no surprise if the Browns fail to admit their mistake and move on — like they did with Hue Jackson after 2016. And after 2017. The bigger challenge for the Browns comes from the lingering disagreements between G.M. John Dorsey and chief strategy officer Paul DePodesta regarding big-picture questions, like who the coach should be.

Doug Marrone, Jaguars: Some think that if he was going to go, he would have gone with Tom Coughlin. Others think Marrone remains in trouble. If the organization plans to give Gardner Minshew a chance to become the franchise quarterback, it makes sense to keep Marrone and G.M. Dave Caldwell around.

Jason Garrett, Cowboys: With a contract expiring when the season ends, Garrett’s tenure definitely ends if the Cowboys fail to make it to the playoffs. Even if they do, Garrett likely needs to get to the NFC title game to get a third contract, even though the Cowboys haven’t gotten that far since 1995.

Mike Zimmer, Vikings: His contract expires after the 2020 season, and there was a clear sense in league circles that failure to make the playoffs could prompt ownership to look elsewhere. So what if the Vikings flame out in the wild-card round? Zimmer could end up becoming the latest coach to enter the last year of his contract, a dynamic that has played out more and more frequently in recent years.

Anthony Lynn, Chargers: It seems like there’s a surprise firing or resignation every year. This year, league insiders are watching the Chargers. Lynn was 12-4 a year ago, but the Chargers have failed in 2019 — and they continue to fail to resonate in L.A. While Lynn doesn’t deserve it, it could be coming.

Dan Quinn is safe in Atlanta, Matt Patricia will return in Detroit, and Adam Gase will get a second season with the Jets. Another surprise (or two) can’t be ruled out; it could come from the Steelers letting Mike Tomlin head to Carolina (or Washington), the Saints allowing Sean Payton to coach the Cowboys, Bill Belichick handing the reins to his son, Steve, in New England, Andy Reid winning a Super Bowl and walking away, or some other unexpected development that currently isn’t on the radar screen. Whatever the outcome, two spots (Washington and Carolina) already are open, and several more inevitably will arise — starting Sunday.

Of course it's not safe although I doubt that he's going anywhere. It's important to keep in mind that the product on the field is Dorsey's responsibility and that success/failure reflects ultimately on him...

I want them to keep Dorsey. He's a decent GM. But Freddie can go.

Regarding Dorsey, I'm actually neutral. I admit to being a Sashi-ite (thanks, Diam), but I'm trying to be objective. I had the same unsettling feeling when Dorsey was hired as I did when Mangini's hire was announced. I do believe that Dorsey has a nose for talent but do not always agree on the way that he obtained it. Having said that, I do expect Dorsey to be retained for next season...

You do realize that the Bills coach, who many wanted here, uses the same 1-0 "nonsense" philosophy, right?

If Freddie is fired than the Freddie Fanclub will
Cry "oh no where's the continunity"

Freddie will go down as one the worst head coaching hires since the return.
He's arrogant. Refuses to acknowledge that he gets out coached every Sunday.
And he had zero respect from the players
Cause he frankly he didn't earn the HC position in their eyes

I just hope DePodesta sticks around & would love for him to begin to get a lot more input on what goes on in the organization.

Also some other coaching candidates that intrigue me as well. Stefanski & Mike McDaniel being 2.

https://twitter.com/BrendanLeister/status/1210946669031936000

Oh great, let's blow everything up yet again .... it's always worked so well in the past.

I'd rank Pat Shurmur and Freddie Kitchens as the second and third worst coaches since our return, in some order. I'm giving Shurmur the second worst grade since he had two years to showcase and Freddie only one.

There's no real competition for the bottom spot.

Sashi-ite ... i even spelled that wrong ... *L* ...

Why would KJ be on the hot seat ... thats a serious question to u and others that believe we should even think of letting him go ...

I see nothing near egregious enough to even consider letting him go ...

Like all GM’s he’s had his misses on personal ... with what he walked into (best situation ever) he’s done an OUTSTANDING JOB upgrading the talent on this team .... INCREDIBLE ACTUALLY ...

Then we have an absolutely miserable season where we underperformed for a plethora of reasons and thats enough to even talk him about getting canned ...

To me that’s PURE EMOTION talking .... i don’t see that at all ...

Billicheck wouldn’t believe in anything as corny as that .... he never has his team focused on the next game there always looking two or three games down the road ... thats what makes them so great ... *L* ...

One of the menZas in one of the mob mentality threads said we should have looked at Arians cause he was a very good HC ... yet when Arians was here he was run out of town by pretty much the entire board cause he Had no right to be an OC .... u see the irony here, kinda hard not too ... *L* ...

I agree and don't see anything that Dorsey has done that would warrant him being fired. . . the only thing I could think of would be if Haslam was against Freddie being the HC - and Dorsey tied himself so strongly to getting Freddie that their fates were at that point joined at the hip.

I would think it's more likely DePodesta is on the hot seat than Dorsey. For all the glory he gets on here, all those years he was running the analytics, until Dorsy got here the overall talent of this team suffered.

Lombardi didn't mention a name when he made his comment and everyone just jumped to a conclusion on who he actually meant.

[quote=DiamDawg]

Why would KJ be on the hot seat ... Because he has the ultimate responsibility for the product on the field.

he’s done an OUTSTANDING JOB upgrading the talent on this team .... Yes, but he has the responsibilty for the fact our record has not improved to match the talent.

an absolutely miserable season where we underperformed...That is a coaching function and KJ has responsibilty for the coaches.

So in your world you want to fire the guy who assembled the talent rather than keep him and replace the HC?

Passion tends to not lead to rational thinking.

I don’t agree for a few reasons ....

- the thief loves shiny toys and depo is a shiny toy ... hes considered the king of analytics and the thief loves having “that” guy work for him .... the fact he never won a thing in baseball and destroyed two franchises never enters into play cause his analytics worked wonders in Oakland .... but i digress ... Depo’s safe ...

- firing Depo would barely cause a ripple in the press or anywhere else .... it would be like the 13th story on nfl today for a day or two .... firing KJ would be a tsunami compared to that ..

I do see your point though .... problem is ... we have no clue how it works internally .... i believe KJ is calling the shots and is the final decision maker so in my world he’d be the one the clickbait article is reffering to .... but u have others like peen that think Depo has more say in the football decisions than I do ... how much more is a question only they can answer ...

I wonder where Depo ranks in the analytics hierarchy of football ... he didn’t fair well at all in baseball after Oakland ... he actually STUNK after Oakland and more than once ... but when u question him with FACTS your just told u don’t understand .... *L* ...

I can’t argue with any of your premises ... i agree with them but i also take many other things into account ... thats for another discussion ...

So after a bad 2nd year where expectations were clearly not even close to being met we should consider firing the gm who has done such an outstanding job acquiring talent that he raised the expectations to heights we only dreamed about before this season? ...

That may be a little quick ... no? .... i mean look where we came from ....

Thanks for the reply .... we just don't agree on this one ...

Happy New Year dawg ....

I get the feeling this is a "If Kitchens goes, then I go" ultimatum from Dorsey. I absolutely want Dorsey to stay, as he's been the best talent evaluator we've had in some time, but if he wants to die on the hill to keep Kitchens, I don't understand his motivation. I can't imagine Haslam wanting to get rid of Dorsey after the job he's done the last two years UNLESS he's stuck his heels in the ground and refused to oust Kitchens.

Kitchens has been a disaster. This is probably the most talented roster we've had in some time, put together by Dorsey himself, and Kitchens might wind up with a worse record than we did last year with a lesser roster, and an interim head coach. So either the coaching staff is terrible and can't coach to the same level as the talent ... or Dorsey is actually terrible at evaluating talent. I'm pretty sure it's the former, but if that's the case, why wouldn't Dorsey correct that issue? Keep the guy that's making your own abilities look questionable?

That point is very debatable...very...and I would say no where near "outstanding". I won't derail this thread...but I've opined in the Roster thread if you wanna read my BS.

I don't want KJ fired...but his seat should most-definitely be warmer than just warm. JMO

It's over. It's all over now.

I have said more than once that I am neutral on Dorsey, and that I fully expect him to be retained for next season...

Perhaps not 'outstanding', but he has significantly upgraded the talent level (yes, at the expense of a few, Zeitler etc) but where I have a problem is that this has not translated into performance on the field and more wins. Dorsey must accept the responsibility for this. Notice how often I use the word 'responsibility'?

I gotta admit...I wouldn't hate that move. Local guys both aren't they? Not that that means everything but both are young and come from the BEST organization in football history. This next move has to last a decade. Get it right.

Are we pretending Dorsey isn’t the one who pushed for Kitchens? That is a huge strike against him. In the end I think he should stay but let’s not give Dorsey a free pass.

Yes. And the Corbett pick was a huge bust. NOW...a bust every now and again can happen to anyone...but that's not my issue/concern. The problem is that he jettisoned Zeitler after determining that Corbett could actually play RG...and he clearly could not. That miss in talent evaluation was huge especially for a guy who is the King of talent evaluation. Simultaneously he decided that Robinson and Hubbard would suffice. He weakened the OL for his sophomore QB...a very egregious roll of the dice.

Last year he punted Nassib (now a team captain in TB) who was a darn decent backup...traded Ogbah for a decent FS (wash)...and gave away Avery because Wilks couldn't figure out how to use a guy who may be limited and "just" a pass rusher...as if you can ever have enough of those guys.

I think he's done ok...and that's not good enough given the draft capital and salary cap space he started with. JMO.

J/C

I think this season has to be looked at only for this season. What I mean is basing any decision on what we did with Chud, Hue, Shurmur, etc. should have no bearing on decicions this year. They were different rosters, coaches, staffs, etc.If Dorsey stays, he needs to decide if Kitchens is the guy who didn't get results he should have this year as well as can he get those results moving forward.

j/c

And people wonder why we can't have nice things. After only two seasons we have the most talented roster we've had in decades and we have to read some of this BS.

What nice things?

If you can't see it I can't help you.

This is why the Haslams are the worst owners in sports. It's their culture, their structure that has created this and pitted Depo against Dorsey. I believe Dorsey is letting his personal feelings and the desire to "beat" Depo interfere with sound judgment. And it's the Haslams that created the structure that made it possible.

j/c:

Can anyone name even one Belichek assistant who has succeeded as a head coach?

Me neither.

Thanks guys!

Happy New Year to you and yours!

Never thought I would ever think this but The McCarthy Project w/ Wolf GM
sounds tempting!