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Yeah and it isn't like Chuck hasn't held the ball too long before...lol. News flash for you there Mensa that was the biggest knock alot of people had him coming into this year. Oh yeah but I know RAC made him have the same problems he always had, becuase of poor coaching.....  As I said before he PLAYED his way out of Cleveland, because he didn't improve on his inadequacies this year, and when they put competition in front of him he folded like a cheap suit. Do you guys want a QB that can't take the pressure of competition??? I don't and am glad he's gone................for our sakes and his. In his new home now that he knows he's destined to be a backup he might succeed in that role........and here we got rid of what had become dead weight.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Hmm, maybe it had more to due with what RAC told CF before the Pitt game Turn the ball over and you'll be standing next to me the rest of the game". Anybody think that might have had something to do with why CF kept holding onto the ball and had his worst game of his career.
Before you spit that lie out U gotta link to prove Rac said that to him?
Frye has never looked good against Pittsburgh, so go spew that out to some 2 year old.
He held on to the ball cuze he was unable to do anything ..he was overwhelmed and he floundered..
First Mensa spins with stats...now he's either making stuff up or has a source deeper than any one of us has, including those who have inside sources.
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Please. You're telling me that anyone from the '04 DL would work in a 3-4? Thats an assinine thought. Maybe Warren...but I was glad to see him go. Savage hasn't been perfect but I do think he gets it. The additions on the OL speak volumes to that.
Has he missed some picks? Yea, every GM does. We were/are so devoid of talent that every miss just hurts us that much more. We're getting there though, we dont have to expect our late picks to play, and can put them on the PS and let them develop.
I really think we are 2DL away from being a good/great D. E. Wright will improve...he has the ability. LBs are solid...as soon as Leon replaces Davis our LB core will be there. Jones is solid...but misses Russel, Pool is a ? at this point. Bodden is solid. Holly is a good nickel, always around the ball.
The only thing missing on offense right now is QB and a #2 reciever/rb. Lewis can still play, Edwards has shown the past 2 weeks he can make plays, we all know Winslow can. I feel that when Quinn is ready, which will be conveniently around the time the OL gels. This offense is one of the better ones in the league.
The D wont make it there this year...but Savage hasn't shown me that he's going to neglect ANY position on this team. He says what the weaknesses are, and tries to fill them the best way he can.
You can say I'm drinkin the Kool-Aid...but compare this team to '04. Can you really say that its worse?
"I don't remember any of my catches. I remember the drops." - Kellen Winslow II
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Until he throws an INT, then its boo city.
I really hope that this is not a true picture of the fan base in this town now. He should get every opportunity to improve as he goes along.
Every fan should realize that he will make some mistakes. He will miss a read, take a sack to push us out of FG range, throw a pick in the redzone, etc. Those things happen. My problem with the QB's (or any position really) is when they do not learn from their mistakes and improve.
When the QB's are throwing more picks than TD's year after year, that is a major problem. Go ahead and boo at that point because we will be bringing in a new QB anyways.
Signing Steinbach - $49.5 million
Signing Lewis - $5 million
Drafting Joe Thomas and Brady Quinn - millions more
Restoring the Browns to champions - priceless.
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Legend
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just clicking.....
What is being overlooked here is that Quinn first must elevate his own understanding of this offense, NFL Defenses and his own play so that he can take the damn job from Anderson. Until he does that, he can't elevate anything else at all.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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OMG.... I thought you'd know by now.... Never try to try to talk reason in a QB thread.... 
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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I know a lot of guys who post on here who get a little "elevated" just thinking about Quinn playing... 
yebat' Putin
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Soooooooo you'r saying they stand up to type? 
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Hmm, maybe it had more to due with what RAC told CF before the Pitt game. "Turn the ball over and you'll be standing next to me the rest of the game". Anybody think that might have had something to do with why CF kept holding onto the ball and had his worst game of his career.
Not only does it reek of a liar, but it is about the most classless thing you can do to try and bolster your opinion with made up quotes and present them as facts.
What would allow anyone to believe anything you ever say after a load of crap like that is far beyond my ability to identify.
You leave for a couple of weeks and when you come back you're worse than ever.
#gmstrong
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Hmm, maybe it had more to due with what RAC told CF before the Pitt game. "Turn the ball over and you'll be standing next to me the rest of the game
Mensa,, please tell me that your not actually saying this happened?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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First Mensa spins with stats...now he's either making stuff up or has a source deeper than any one of us has, including those who have inside sources.
No one with his lack of football knowledge has any such "sources" let alone those of the deep variety. Who in God's name would let someone like that in on information like that?!
It's crap; pure and simple.
#gmstrong
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I agree 100% with the OP.
We haven't had a QB like Quinn roll through Cleveland since our return. We'll be too far in the hole (1-5) once Quinn starts to make it to the playoffs, but it should give us good momentum going into next season. Quinn is a winner, not a "I'll try my best and see what happens" type guy.
It's laughable people mention Couch/Frye in the same sentence as Quinn. Those two were complete scrubs.
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You leave for a couple of weeks and when you come back you're worse than ever.
I was booted by the refs after calling out Diam for something tasteless he did.
My source is valid. RAC told Frye he'd only be in the game if he didn't turn the ball over. If he turned it over he'd get yanked.
Frye then goes out and has his worst game of his career. Yet, the Frye haters will pretend Frye always played like that. More excuses for RAC and Savage. Two guys that are in over their heads.
Funny how Mike Holmgren jumped at the chance of getting Frye. While the two stooges in Cleveland couldn't wait to get rid of him. Who's talent evaluation are you kool-aid drinkers going to believe in, the Savage/RAC history of talent evaluation, producing zero Pro-Bowlers or Mike Holmgren.
Holmgren turned around Steve Young's career
Holmgren turned around Brett Favre's career
Holmgren turned around Matt Hasselbeck's career
Savage/RAC will ruin Quinn. Hopefully Quinn doesn't play this year that way he'll get properly developed next offseason under real leadership.
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Mensa,, please tell me that your not actually saying this happened?
It did happen.
This organization is being run by coin flippers. They don't know how to run a team.
Savage was offered deals better than a 6th rounder for Frye months ago. But Savage decided not to trade Frye. He decided to wait until after he starts the 1st game of the year to trade him for less in return. Savage is in over his head. Ozzie was the mastermind in Baltimore.
I've been telling you guys that Savage needs to go. Soon you Kool-aid drinkers will get the drift.
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Quinn is a winner, .
Yet, he didn't win until his 3rd year at ND.
But now he's a miracle worker and will be a winner in year 1 with Cleveland.
Quinn will magically make the D-line good.
Quinn will magically make Pool a good Safety.
Quinn will magically make Wright not get beat deep. Something he was known for in college. Savage must have overlooked that flaw
This team will always be a loser as long as Savage is the GM.
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I'm not saying you are right or wrong, but you would think that after a suspension, you would refrain from insulting other posters. Calm down and try to discuss things in an accepted manner....
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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Your just mad because Savage traded your boy...how about next time you actually sound like you know football.
you had a good run Hank.
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 I think we have a winner. As much as I wanted Frye to succeed...we gave him the opportunity. He wilted like 5 month old lettuce. No coach would ever tell a player what Mensa said. I'm sorry thats just insane. You cannot expect anyone to believe that, not even a 2 year old.
"I don't remember any of my catches. I remember the drops." - Kellen Winslow II
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It did happen.
This organization is being run by coin flippers. They don't know how to run a team.
Savage was offered deals better than a 6th rounder for Frye months ago. But Savage decided not to trade Frye. He decided to wait until after he starts the 1st game of the year to trade him for less in return. Savage is in over his head. Ozzie was the mastermind in Baltimore.
mensa,, I'm really sorry to say this to you,, because when it came to Frye, we both thought he could do better than he had,,
But I gotta tell you man,, this is NOT accurate,, Can't be. too bizarre to be real. I don't know who tells you this stuff, but man, you have GOT to go over to thier house and kick the living Chit out of them for making you look foolish.
Cause that's what they've done.. make you look foolish,,
Here's what happened to Frye.. he won the starting job,, barely.. then got his shot and STUNK,,, I mean seriously, HE SUCKED....
That part of it is undeniable.... There is actual VIDEO record of that mess.
What I think happened next is that after he was yanked, and perhaps after the game, he said something to someone, perhaps RAC, Chud or Savage... whatever was said probably lead to his trade.
Maybe what was said was that he didn't want to be here anymore... maybe he called Phils wife a name,, heck if I know..
But for darn sure, as much of a supporter of a fair shot for Frye as I was,, I believe this with all my heart, if we had been offered anything better than a 5th rounder for him, we'd have taken it... that is after we got Quinn. not before, but after.
Unless of course they turned offers down in order to insure against a major hold out of Quinn.. but I'm not buying that one.. just not.
Mensa, we've had many converstions where we lamented the way that Frye was treated... But not once did I ever get the feeling that you were completely round the bend,,,
now, I'm not so sure man,,,, that is coming from someone that respects you.....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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My source is valid. RAC told Frye he'd only be in the game if he didn't turn the ball over. If he turned it over he'd get yanked.
Your source is nondescript. This is your one and only and final warning:
DO NOT continue to post things as being factual unless you can back them up with a valid link.
DO NOT say "my source" told me such and such.
The vast majority of the time the bulk of your posts is spent on posts with stats that are skewed to represent your argument. If you wish to continue to do that, that is fine, as that is not against the rules. But DO NOT continue to spout things as fact that you cannot back up through a source other than a post under your name saying it is so.
You will be bounced for good if you continue to do so.
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Funny how Mike Holmgren jumped at the chance of getting Frye. While the two stooges in Cleveland couldn't wait to get rid of him. Who's talent evaluation are you kool-aid drinkers going to believe in, the Savage/RAC history of talent evaluation, producing zero Pro-Bowlers or Mike Holmgren.
No...Holmgren jumped at Brett Favre by offering a first rounder for him and he was drafted in the second round.
I wouldn't call offering a 6th "jumping for someone.
"
And either way, it was the GM's who picked the QB's. Ron Wolf offered the first for Favre and Tim Ruskell offered the 6th for Frye.
Seems like you've fallen off your rocker now that your boy Chaz F. Frye's been traded.
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Dude, edit your post. You will get banned again if you don't. It was a tasteless pm but you know you can't repeat it.
#gmstrong
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Dude, edit your post. You will get banned again if you don't. It was a tasteless pm but you know you can't repeat it.
Probably not but that's funny as hell... what the heck is a point of a PM like that?
<><
#gmstrong
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There is no reason for a post like that. I have stuck up for Menza to some extent when I thought he had brought up a valid point, but never again. I can't and won't tell people how to post (within the rules) but I can ignore whatever Menza says, and will.
#gmstrong
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How's that P???? no one will be able to figure it out now ... but i tried .. I did it kinda like a crossword puzzle .... *L*...
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Interesting edit....
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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Interesting edit....
I always liked that RB...
<><
#gmstrong
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and Pitt .. I guess we know why the QB's split reps in TC and pre-season .. MAKES SENSE now dot it Mr. Mountain out of a Mole hill man ... kinda hard to give one guy all the reps when there both disposable but your not sure witch one will get u the most in a trade ...
looks like i was right again in saying u ere making a mountain out of a mole hill ... but thats nothing new ...
No,when instaling a new offensive scheme,you need to name a starter so your "young team" can stay focused on the task at hand,which is instaling,learning and building cohesiveness within that scheme.
Not being distracted by some amettureish sideshow.
We have differing opinions. But yours certainly has no more validity than mine. If you feel putting the possibilty of attaining a future sixth round draft pick a higher priority than getting your young team prepared for the regular season under a new OC and a totaly new scheme,you have at it Diam.
But it sure looks like a foolish way of handling things. I don't think your scenario makes any sense at all. I can see one that does.
Chud wanted a pocket passer with a stronger arm and knew Frye simply wasn't a good fit. Much like when Garcia came here. Square peg in round hole syndrome. But RAC refused to bend and held the competition in the end naming Frye the starter after a major,counterproductive distraction. Phil saw about all he wanted to see of this silly game and settled it once and for all. Bye bye Frye.
See,you can't have it both ways Diam. First you claimed that there's no way,no how that Quinn should play before the bye. And actually,you wanted to wait untill longer if possible.
Now? He's one snap away from being the starter and has been for two weeks now. One sprained ankle? BOOM! Quinn starts. One hard sack that leads to a mild concussion? BOOM! Quinn starts. That's not what you wanted and I don't believe that's what Phil wanted either.
Kinda funny isn't it? Phil went from "We're not gonna rush him" to making him the back up in a week? Wonder why that is?
Save it Diam. You're not making a sale here. There's no way Phil "wanted a situation" that would throw Quinn into the back up role in week two. One snap away from facing the Rats or N. Eng. No way you wanted it either.
I'm not sure if you actually buy what you're trying to sale,or just trying to sale a bill of goods. But either way,certain things don't flush. They only back up the plumbing. And the story you're peddling is one of those.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I think we tried to get rid of him before that like I posted before you where banned, and when he had a complete MENTAL breakdown here we got rid of him. Now maybe something happened like Damon suggested where something was said that made it imparitive to get him out of town that Monday, but the fact is something happened on Sunday (when he looked like he was a cast member of Lost in Space) or Monday (when he got shipped out). I will never believe that it was purely "happenstance" that these events occured when they did.
Here's my take.........
1. We tried to trade him a few times this off season.
2. Kept talks going, but couldn't get what we wanted
3. CF just implodes against Pukesburgh
4. Either Damon is right and something is said, or we just decide he doesn't have the mental makeup to ever be a successfull # 2 in Cleveland.
5. Monday he's gone for what we can get rid of him for
As far as DA, yeah your right pure talent wise I don't think DA is as good as Fry, but for OUR situation I think he's better. DA knows he's not now or ever will be a starter in this league...............Chuck didn't want to let loose of his dream, and either went nuts becuase he saw it slipping (my theory) or went nuts and became a distraction (Damon's theory). Either way, he was never going to be a productive QB in Cleveland agian. Like I said the best thing for both sides was the trade, becuase I do believe Chuck's got some talent and can be a solid # 2 QB for somebody, but it wouldn't have been us. As far as DA, we disagree.............he's got talent, but is just too inconsistant to be a starter in the NFL. He's very comparable to a number of backups in this league and will be fine at that spot...............as good as CF could have been?? Imo no, but that is mute, because CF was NEVER going to be that for us.
Bro say what you want, but it wasn't coincedence when the trade occured, and it wasn't just because we where cutting our losses when we could get something........heck if that was the case then we keep him on the bench and let DA flounder around until BQs ready, and then at season's end we build CF back up, and make sure he know's HE'S in our long term plans as the # 2............as both of us have said he was the better option as the long term # 2, and as you hypothesised in our PM after the game that very thing would happen. So it had to be something more, and it wasn't just coincedence.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Until he throws an INT, then its boo city.
I really don't believe that will happen, the boo part I mean. Most people who watch football has the knowledge that INTS are going to happen but they draw the line when a QB has more of them than they do touchdown passes.
The kid is young and he will make mistakes but I think you'll find out there will be less of them than what we have seen lately! 
Wouldn't you expect mistakes from all of our QBs since they all are young? Do believe Quinn has this so-called "it" factor merely because he's a round 1 QB? You give Quinn enough time to develop and there will be no mysterious aura about his success. Rushing QBs into the game destroys good QBs out of college more than you know. Any one player cannot make the team as whole look good, its when the team works together and forgets about individual success that makes the team look good.
Don't get me wrong, I do think that Quinn is the better QB in our lineup, but throwing him in the fire when our line is still working out their issues isn't smart. Now when our line is clicking and working as a unit, when Quinn goes in later this year, he is going to look fantastic. Then all you On this BQ high are going to say "I told you so, why didn't they put him in sooner?" and you are going to forget about the big guys in the trench that has made Quinn's success possible.
You have to admit that this is the best O-line our beloved Browns have had since their return.
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How does a QB like Fryes value go UP after a terrible outing and he gets yanked? That makes no sense at all. If he wasn't tradable BEFORE his meltdown verses Pitt,he certainly wouldn't have been tradable afterwords. When you get named the starter then stink up the joint? Your value doesn't increase. Quit drinking the kool-aid and think about that for just a minute.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Rushing QBs into the game destroys good QBs out of college more than you know.
Manning and Aikman did alright...
Cutler and Young seem to be doing ok...
just a quick note
I want Quinn in after the bye...
<><
#gmstrong
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Re-read my post and tell me again how the hell you came to the conclusion of me saying that. I'll repeat it for you..........
1. We tried to trade him this offseason, but couldn't get what we WANTED for him
2. Kept fielding offers, but couldn't get what we WANTED for him
3. He plays like ass in Pukesburg/Damon's right and something is said
4. Monday we take what we can get
Re read that bro, I never said that his value increased after the Puke game...........it was just we wanted him gone and took the offer we could get.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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I don't like losing as much as the next person.
But, I do not want Quinn playing too early. Yes, some rookies have had success when they played. But they had a team already built around them. The few that didn't have one aroudn them struggled for several years in their careers and finally found success several years down the line in their careers.
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Re read that bro, I never said that his value increased after the Puke game...........it was just we wanted him gone and took the offer we could get.
But the question of "why" is what I'm getting at? You are right,I rushed my response without thoroughly reading your post.
But why the rush? What happenned that caused us to do this so quickly? I mean Phil had just stated the week before that they didn't want to rush things with Brady. And we both know that once you throw him into the back up role,an injury can happen on any down and he is only a snap away from starting.
What can cause a GM t say he wants to take his time with bringing a QB along one week and throw him squarely into the mix where he's possibly one snap away from being thrown in as our starter the next week?
Even if DA had been named the starter,Charlie would have served as a back up,a buffer in case DA went down to insure that Brady wasn't rushed into the starting role.
Do you think getting a sixth round pick changed that entire game plan in one weeks time?
I'm not accusing you of saying that,just wondering if you feel that's logical and makes sense? You signed a kid to a potential 30 million dollar deal. You made it clear you had no plans to rush the process. Then POOF! That all changes in the blink of an eye so you can get a sixth round pick?
I don't know about you,but that just doesn't add up to me. I believe there's more to the sory than that. And I don't care what the usual suspects think about that.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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OP
1st String
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 496 |
First of all I want to thank HewDawg and Charlie for sticking to the original topic for this thread. The rest of you can take your agenda's and shove em!  I don't agree with either one of you but that's cool at least you want to talk about players that are on this team as of right now. Now to the topic at hand why on earth would anyone want the best player at any position to sit on the bench?  I have proposed that this entire team might possibly play at an elevated level with the franchise QB that has already been clearly designated. Let me ask this, are you more than likely to work harder for your immediate boss or someone who is subing for him while he is on vacation? The kid (Quinn is the boss) wether we like it or not. The management knows it, the players know it, and yes the fans know it. And the silly excuses for not starting him till after the bye does not cut it. He is a player and players learn on the field. Sitting and watching someone that you are already farther advanced of will not teach you anything! When you are better than the teacher the teaching ends! 
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,572
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,572 |
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Dude, edit your post. You will get banned again if you don't. It was a tasteless pm but you know you can't repeat it.
I don't think it shows taste to share a private message in that manner.
That should have been shared with the refs, and then deleted.
As to mensa...that guy has been on my ignore list for a year or so.
It doesn't take the sharing of a post like that to know the guys opinions aren't worth reading.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,445
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,445 |
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But why the rush? What happenned that caused us to do this so quickly? I mean Phil had just stated the week before that they didn't want to rush things with Brady. And we both know that once you throw him into the back up role,an injury can happen on any down and he is only a snap away from starting.
To me there was no rush...This was simply an "I'm DONE" decision...
Frye's play that Sunday SEALED THE DEAL...
You think about THIS...
Frye/DA/Quinn...CHAOS at the top...
DA/Quinn/Dorsey...SETTLED QB SITUATION...Made ME feel alot better...lol...
BTW...The day Frye got traded...Dorsey signed...And Quinn announced as the #2 is the day the Browns said QUINN IS READY...
There ain't a #2 QB in this entire league that ain't READY...One snap away MAKES U READY...
Why isn't he playing yet???...Simple...The staff wants to stretch it as far as possible and let him WATCH...
MY question is this...Watch WHAT???...How to be WILDLY INNACCURATE???...lmao...
It's quickly becoming Quinn time...And I'd bet he sees time late this week or next and then come Miami IT'S ON!!!!!!!!!!!
Go Browns!!!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
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MY question is this...Watch WHAT???...How to be WILDLY INNACCURATE???...lmao...
I now you know this, , but it does him good to watch the opposing defenses. Watching a bad quarterback does little good.
#gmstrong
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Quinn can elevate the play of this
entire team
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.. not sure why but i sure hope it wasnt for that .... menZa had a meltdown and i get banned??? i called Peenie an idiot on another thread and ASSume thats why as the Refs didn't tell me ... 