DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns HC Interviews

The fact that this has to be part of a coach search strategy makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit.

Care to elaborate?

I agree. I agree with the intention behind the Rooney Rule, but the rule itself is too simplistic and doesn't get at the root of why there are less minority HCs than there should be.

Do you really have to ask? Using a person of color (getting his hopes up that he's bona fide candidate when you have no intention of selecting him) to meet a rule or quota so you can hire your desired candidate is wrong on so many levels.

Or the rule is making sure that someone who might be qualified for the job, but doesn't get an interview because he is a person of color is actually a good thing.

Whats wrong is just going threw the motions and brining the guy in to bring him in. if that's your case, then yeah I agree.

But if your saying its dumb rule - I disagree.

I do not think this is what the Haslams are doing BTW, they have proven over time to give fair treatment to minorities.

That was exactly my case, because the discussion here was that we bumped up his interview date so we can land MM.

I'll say it. I think the rule, as it's set up right now, is dumb. I think it can be changed to be much more effective at achieving its intention, which would be a good thing.

I think that many coaching searches already start with a very limited pool of actual, serious candidates. I'll also go ahead and assume that race doesn't play a role in who those candidates are, but the people that tend to float to the top and end up being those top candidates tend to be white. I think the Rooney Rule should focus on getting minorities to 'float to the top' more. We should be talking about how the Rooney Rule made this guy a sought after candidate because he got all this experience. Not how this guy scored an interview to check a box.

/rant

I'm with you on this. I've been pumped about some of the coaching we got only to be utterly disappointed at the end of the season. I just hope they get it right. As far as Kitchens goes, I wanted him gone at the break this season.

By what I've read, Bieniemy is a good prospect. We could do a lot worse. The Browns have had both a minority Head Coach and General Manager since Haslam has been in charge. This is not counting the Historical fact that Marion Motley and Bill Willis broke the color barrier with the Browns in 1946.

Yeah, i think Bienemy is a legit candidate, as he should be. He’ll get a HC job soon

I don't love guys coming from teams that have elite talent. The NFL like any other job is about how can you do more with less. I have not seen anything like that during Eric Bieniemy's time in KC.

In my estimation KC on offense, other than running back has an elite player at every level. Hill, Kelce, Schwartz and Mahomes are all second to none at their positions. We have maybe OBJ, if healthy and motivated and Chubb as far as elite talent on offense.

I just don't love it.

Agreed. In principle, it is a good thing. However, it is often a token interview only given in order to check a box. In this manner, it serves no purpose.

I didn't want to say that he's not a legit candidate, but was more pointing out the timeline. He seemed to be on our radar but not part of an active pursuit... until "we're interviewing him today". I thought that was interesting.

How many minority Head Coach's are there now ?

Tomlin, Flores, Lynn (who could be fired any day now).

That is such a racist and STUPID rule.

Rivera

Thank you , I'm lazy today. So what number do you think is exceptable . Is there a formula ? I really am ignorant in such matters.

I'd argue that the ratio could lean closer to the ratio of the players.

Right now, the ration is about 9%.

In the US alone, the ratio of minorities are about 27% (that's any minority mind you).

Obviously, there is a shortfall here.

Is he actually signed yet?

I'd argue further that the ratio should actually be more than the general population, as (I think/assume) there's a higher ratio of minority players playing the game. I would think the coaching ranks should somewhat follow that.

Either way... shortfall.

It is at a lower % then it has been, true, but this is specific to the Head Coach, the coaching ranks is another % in itself, which is probably pretty close to even, at least by my observations, which mean nada

It got leaked several years ago.

Stefanski will be available.

The problem with this is that it assumes that there is at minimum an equivalent ratio of people able to do the job.

It also assumes that there are at minimum 32 people able to do the job in the first place.

The other problem is, how do you end up defining several different things you mention in your post? For example, how do you define exactly "players playing the game"? Do you have to be a starter? Is it someone who can play all downs or are they someone like a pass rush specialist? What if all you do is STs? Is it just being able to make the 53? Does making the practice squad count?

If we accept all that under the definition of "players playing the game" that's totally fine. But we also have to accept that there are different levels within that, just like there are in coaching.

Plus there's also the problem of what do we use as the baseline stat for comparison? If we want the statistical ratio of HC's (and coaches at all other levels I'd presume) to be equivalent to the number of players, shouldn't that then reflect the ratio we find in society? If not, why not?

The next question then is if we are going to use ratio equivalents to justify our goals, if in the future we find that minorities are over represented in the coaching ranks compared to whatever our baseline is, will we then be adjusting rules to help white people in an effort to get back within parameters? If not, then it really isn't about equality then is it?

I don't expect you Oob or anyone else to have the answers to all that. I'm just brainstorming rhetorically. I think the Rooney Rule is something that started with good intentions but wasn't thoroughly thought through. Someone mentioned previously that some of the problem today is that there are a number of minority coaches who are or may be close to ready for that HC gig, but they are from the defensive side of the ball. But then teams are looking to the offensive side of the ball.

Maybe the solution is to apply the Rooney Rule on down the line of coaching? We all know the style of play in the League ebbs and flows. Are minority coaches being given adequate opportunity on the offensive side of things and being able to become a part of that pool?

If it were up to me, I think the entire topic should be taken back to the drawing board. From there a real, comprehensive discussion that defines what the problem actually is. THEN work on a solution to that problem. Personally I do believe in systems that provide equal opportunities, but I also believe that using ratios of representation as a barometer of success isn't usually helpful.

Maybe that's the beauty of the current Rooney Rule that I'm missing. The simplicity that totally ignores all of the potential hiccups you just called out (and more, no doubt).

I certainly don't have the answers. I have some (many) opinions, but those should in no way be construed as actionable.

I just hate it when something that was originally intended to be a noble/good thing is misused. I see that happening with some of these interviews, and I feel for those interviewees.

Puts Stefanski and maybe Berry as a duo with a real chance.

But isn't that the way it goes with almost everything? If people can find a way to circumvent a rule or law, they will.

He's not getting alot of run now but I say look out for a him and Berry combo.
Don't know if he's even scheduled yet.

Dallas is a wildcard now with every solid candidate.

First let me thank all that have responded to my query .. I find this very interesting . When talking about the R.Rule are we talking about all Minority's or only Black candidates ? Is Rivera considered a minority or Rodney Rule eligible ? There are about 330 million of us now , with about 13% being African-American ; Is that a figure to used ? Do we need to expand it to include Latino's ? I understand the concept of the Rule , but have we reached a point where it is not needed ?

All minorities.

Yes, it includes the soccercentric.

ForGeT That!! Eric Beieenemy is a flippin Bengal! (and I think he's not good as a coach)
Keep him out of Berea! period!

Who would he be rooting for when the team played his old team twice a year? Head coach???

No Blasted way! with a capital B

Coaches dream of a head coaching job at a top college program or the NFL. Even if we didn't have all of that we would still attract interest.

We have good clay and good tools in the art room. We just need the right artist to mold in in to a beautiful work of art.

Just my personal opinion, but I'm voting for the Stefanski/Berry ticket.

Give me McCarthy / Wolf.