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Davin Cook was excellent in Minnesota's offense this year. I feel like with Chubb and Hunt, Stefanski is getting Cook x 2+. Maybe more like Cook x 3 with their abilities. This will be interesting to watch.

He also got the ball 9 times in a playoff game.

It wasn't just O-line, but we do need to get better. Cousins rolled quite a bit. That buys a few seconds. Maybe 2-3-4...that adds up.

I never understood why we didn't roll out more. We did it the previous year. That plays to Bakers game.


Baker isn't a real running QB, but he can and shows the ability to take what he can then get out of bounds or go down.

Good point. Maybe some coaches learn...

They can. But its the NFL, and your judged on a week by week basis.

7 first downs and multiple 3 and outs for the Vikes

Browns - "we gotta get that guy!"

Yeah, but that wasn't no normal defense, either... and sometimes, a team just has your number on a given day. Look what Freddie led us to in Baltimore early in the season.... it happens, but it isn't your total definition.

Absolutely true, I concede that. But if you are selling yourself as an "offensive genius", well let me rephrase, if others are selling you as an offensive genius, I would surely expect a better showing - no matter how good the defense you are playing.

Don't get me wrong, every coach has a bad game - McDaniels and Paul Brown included. I just dont like that bad game coming on the biggest game of your career, when your up for a HC job. I like to see guys call their best game in those situations, win or lose.

Again, you can't go on 1 games results. You have to be balanced at look at the body of work.


I consider you a sensible person, but you aren't sounding like it over the last few days.

It's definitely not ideal timing to lay an egg, for sure, but I'd prefer to look at the larger body of work. After all, while any team can win "Any Given Sunday", especially in the playoffs as we just discussed, it is the sustained weekly results that get you that opportunity in the playoffs to begin with.

His offense isn't San Francisco or Kansas City, but he also doesn't have their personnel, and if you only look at Yards/Game he was middle of the road, but in Points/Game it was Top 10. His philosophies are sound and he shows a track record of good implementation and execution of them while also managing some WR personalities. He's probably as good of a fit as anyone, to be honest, and I'm completely ambivalent at this point because I don't think it matters at all who we put there; we're going to Browns it up.

Hit me back up for an answer once we have a GM, and offensive Cord.Until then it's all sticking our fingers up our butt and guessing.

It's odd how some people say that as soon as we hire them.

Agreed. I understand its more of an optics than having any bearing, I admit that. But to be fair - 1 game in his very SHORT sample of games, is a lot more impactful than say 100 games. See what I am saying?

again, I actually think he can be a good coach, he wouldn't be in the NFL for 14 years with the same team if he didn't have a lot of promise, its more so the setup that I am frustrated with.

If we fired lets say a 5 year coach, that got stale - I would perfectly ok with KS.

WE didn't, we fired a guy for lack of leadership and vision. I would want the next guy to be a little more proven quantity. That's all.

Ok Meh on KS. Im furious over the setup that the team is going to have as a structure.

I think the ones that are not sensible are the ones thinking that once again putting a square peg in a round hole is going to work this time around. The coaches names change, the FO names change, its not going to matter. Until we have a structure that works, its always going to fail.

Heck people bash the Cowboys because of Jerry, but at least the organization knows the structure and the flow. Id take Jerry over Haslam everyday and TWICE on Sunday.

What’s the 3rd choice .... *L* ...

if those are the only two .... NONE OF THE ABOVE ...

Jerry has hardware in my lifetime. We cant even sniff the playoffs. Id take him in a heartbeat.

Has there been any word if Stefanski will be calling plays?

By that same token, you can't let that one game have more weight than the other 17 games.


What you CAN do, however, is look at the collective body and see that they only really struggled against two defenses all year. They kinda rolled over most everyone else.

Packers & Bears owned them and they failed to score more than 19 in any of those four games, and the Chiefs and Seahawks beat them simply by scoring more, so that's more a defensive letdown for the Vikings. My bet is that the 49ers looked at the Packers and Bears games and decided they had the personnel to stop the Vikings the same way, whatever that was.

You mean like this guy??...

So are you suggesting Mike McDaniel? I would like that a lot.

It’s the same schematic coaching tree. Stefanski runs a similar style.

https://twitter.com/jake_burns18/status/1216617593244717056

If you are running the ball well, which our OL is better at run blocking... and you are using play action effectively, you can buy a second here and there to give the appearance of much better pass protection....

Not saying we shouldn't improve the personnel, just saying that a lot of our "poor pass protection" last year seemed to be the result of no offensive rhythm and no-back sets in possible running situations.

We didn't help ourselves.

Yet by contrast, when they played tougher D's, at times their O stuggled mightily.

They scored only 6 and 19 points in their two games against the Bears, 16 and 10 points in their two games against the Packers.

Then we have common opponents. We put up 28 points against the Seahawks. The Vikings put up 30 against the Seahawks. They did slam the Lions with putting up 42 points while we only managed 20. They posted 27 points verses the Broncos while we managed to score 19.

So while their O did give better performances against the same opponents, outside of the Lions, there wasn't that much difference in the scoring department.

The owner that won the hardware knew his place .,,, that guy has long since left the building ...

Since the thief took over both teams have the same amount of playoff W’s ...

U can have Jerra I’m going with the dart board over them .... *L* ...

Yet Jimmy Johnson has a ring while working for Jerry and will be going into the HOF.

Just sayin'.

I said I’d take that guy ...

The dude i don’t want is the dude that then FIRED JJ and has not learned he’s an oilman and not remotely close to being qualified to be putting together WINNING NFL FOOTBALL TEAMS ...

Just sayin ...

True, but that owner that lost his place has still gone to the playoffs, while we cant seem to win 8 games.

Well, if he can just show better judgment in game situations it would be an upgrade right there. And picking actives for the game as well.

He needs to work BM over some, because his "production" suffered as did his picks number. Find us some tackles. I think this will be a struggle to adjust for Coach S. But he can do some things to help himself. I hope he can help us some more and not get buried in layers of nonsense and wasted time for the FO.

So maybe Haslam wants to be Jerry Jones LIght. He just isn't good at it at all.

I get that. But I want a scheme that can score on the 49ers. I don't want a scheme that's gong to get shut down by a good team.

Conversely, I want a defensive scheme that's going to shut down the Chiefs.

I am tired of the "well it was the Chiefs, of course they scored 50". Screw that thinking! I want a super power here. I want to stop every offense and score on every defense. I don't care who we are lining up against. Im not yelling or arguing - just pointing out, why settle?

Nobody who is a fan disagrees with that. Easier said than done, but everybody agrees.

That will never be all scheme. That takes the right scheme with a solid dose of talent with the right calls to get the right matchups, because they have a solid scheme that is well coached with plenty of talent that matches their scheme.

When a defense is that solid, you can't simply pick a scheme/concept and think it will win the day for you. Players have to make plays, and you have to hope that your talent can outwork their talent enough times during the day to end up with more points. It really is more about what Belichick preaches... find what they do well and take it away, then attack the point where they don't do so well. You MUST have the horses across the board to pull that off, though, because they will be doing the same right back to you and any weaknesses you have will be magnified.

Absolutely agree. I think believe we have the horses, we just a few more to add to the stable.

I don't know if we have the right jockey though.

Plus there's the other side of the ball. You may have a great gamelan involving mostly Chubb and hunt, but that'll go out the window if they've put up a ton of points and it's getting later in the game.

Maybe, maybe not. Some or all of these guys might be very good in the zone blocking Shanahan/Kubiak scheme... Camp sure will be interesting.

From all indications, our scheme will be quite similar TO the Niners. Defensively who knows? I kind of hope we keep Wilkes next season. I thought our D played pretty well for the most part. I was really happy with the way our defensive staff coped with losing our starting corners and safeties last season. That could have been a real horror show but the D hung in there. That was good coaching.

What games were Cook and Thielen banged up?

We had a healthy Chubb all season.

When your offense is built around a transcendent talent and he gets hurt, the offense tends to suffer.

With Cook at less than 100 percent, defenses pinned their ears back.

We still need to find coordinators, though, so let's not worry too much about how hypothetical schemes will/won't work.

I'm fairly confident that regardless of the results, the process that leads there should be improved over the mess we witnessed last year.

As Browns take on Kevin Stefanski’s zone blocking scheme, let the symphony begin
https://www.beaconjournal.com/sports/202...-symphony-begin

If new Browns coach Kevin Stefanski switches to a zone blocking scheme as he indicated Tuesday, hard-core fans in the end zones at FirstEnergy Stadium are once again in for a show.

Assuming the Browns’ yet-unnamed general manager can acquire the players to pull it off.

A seat behind the goal post at Three Rivers Stadium in January, 1998, as Hall of Fame running back Terrell Davis led the Denver Broncos over the Pittsburgh Steelers in the AFC Championship Game provided an eye-opening view. Watching the system used by then-Broncos coach Mike Shanahan and later adopted by his son Kyle, the San Francisco 49ers coach who spent 2014 as Browns offensive coordinator, was like taking in an orchestral performance. The zone blocking was a football symphony of motion, timing and working in tandem.

Davis rushed for 139 yards and a touchdown on 26 carries in a 24-21 victory over Jerome Bettis and the Steelers and even those with no rooting interest could marvel at the beauty of the Broncos’ offensive execution.

At his introductory news conference, Stefanski discussed the scheme he and assistant head coach/offensive adviser Gary Kubiak put together in Minnesota last season, Stefanski’s first as coordinator. Kubiak coached the Broncos in 2015-16, winning a Super Bowl in his first season there after eight years directing the Houston Texans.

“It was really my chance with all of our coaches to put a system together that we collectively believed in,” Stefanski said at FirstEnergy Stadium. “So certainly, as I think about what we are going to do here, probably the jumping off point is where we started last year. You can call it any system you want and we will just make sure it is the Cleveland Browns’ system.”

That means tremendous changes are in store for quarterback Baker Mayfield and the Browns’ offense.

The Kubiak/Stefanski scheme emphasized an aggressive running game with outside zone blocking and play-action passing. Vikings quarterback Kirk Cousins operated more under center than is the norm. There were fewer receivers on the field as the Vikings utilized tights ends and a true fullback — the latter almost extinct in the league. Timing and rhythm were of utmost importance.

Browns running backs Nick Chubb, who finished second in the league in rushing, and Kareem Hunt, third on the team in receptions and receiving yards despite playing only eight games, should be overjoyed with the plan.

So, too, may be left guard Joel Bitonio and center JC Tretter. The lone member of the Browns offense remaining from Kyle Shanahan’s season in Cleveland, Bitonio played in the kind of system Stefanski will install. Tretter may have heard it touted by former Browns left tackle Joe Thomas either in person or on his podcast. Both Bitonio and Tretter have the mobility needed in zone blocking.

But for a Browns team that already has holes at both offensive tackle spots, tight end, safety, defensive line and perhaps linebacker, now a fullback joins the list. Offensive linemen cannot be behemoths. Certain physical traits and talents will take on more importance in scouting both pro and college offensive players.

Mayfield was already destined for an offseason of work and study because of his poor production in 2019, which cast doubt on whether he will prove to be the franchise quarterback. With Stefanski’s arrival, Mayfield must not only improve his eyes and feet, but become comfortable operating under center and a master at play action.

“I am about working and I am about putting a foundation together,” Stefanski said Tuesday. “We will be methodical about it. We will not skip steps two and three to get to four. When I am talking about this, I am talking about schemes and technique. We will be diligent about working with our players so that they can develop into the best version of themselves.”

Stefanski realizes the physicality of the team in the AFC North and said “it will never be too far from our thoughts.” He wants to be explosive in the running and passing game, but seeks a marriage of both even if going run-heavy at the beginning might take some pressure off Mayfield. Stefanski mentioned his days playing defensive back at Penn and said he knows what it feels like “when you have a run that looks like a pass and a pass that looks like a run.”

Recalling when the Vikings were putting together their scheme last year, Stefanski said he was approached by five-time Pro Bowl free safety Harrison Smith, an eight-year veteran.

“It was very comforting when you had a player like Harrison Smith come up to you and tell you, ‘Man, that is a tough scheme that you are running. This is really hard on the defense,‘” Stefanski said. “That gave us great confidence knowing that we were going down the right path.’”

It’s the same path on which Stefanski and the Browns will soon embark. But it will take months of study, practice and commitment — along with a few more good men — before end zone seats become coveted and the symphony begins.

Kevin Stefanski's Vikings offense had at least two tight ends on the field 53 percent of the time this season. No team used multiple tight end sets more.
https://twitter.com/brentsobleski/status/1218154237978431488

Will be really interesting to watch. Was that due to lack of other WR options? Will that push TE up the "need" list in FA (never the draft lol)? Or will it be all about using the most talented players?
https://twitter.com/JaredKMueller/status/1218156287051124736

Don't think that number will be as high in Cleveland, but that system is well-known for its overall tight end usage.
https://twitter.com/brentsobleski/status/1218157534105743362

Thank you for posting all of that.

One tendency of Shanny's system (and it looks like Stefanski's system will be similar) is to highlight one main receiving option. Have success on the ground and then use playaction to hit a long pass to a guy that can consistency get open. That actually sounds more like keeping/highlighting OBJ in the upcoming offense vs packing his bags.

Will our offense be like that? If it is, OBJ is safe, and Njoku and maybe even Landry might be closer to being shipped out.

I look at it more like OBJ is our Diggs, Landry our Thielen, Njoku our Irv Smith. We still need a Kyle Rudolph.

I think Stefanski tries to spread the ball around a bit more than Shanahan. There was something to that effect in Rudolph's quotes about him, I believe. Though, the numbers look like Diggs got twice as many targets as anyone not named Dalvin Cook, you have to remember Thielen missed time. Vikings Targets Link

Breaking Down the Kevin Stefanski Offense Part I: Wide Zone Run
ByJAKE BURNS Jan 16, 7:01 AM

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Article/Kevin-Stefanski-Wide-Zone-Run-142274849/