DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Football guys did half the job, now it's up to numbers boys to finish the job...

Anybody who believes Depo will have in game access to the coaches are fools. Game plans will use data, analytics people will not be in the coaches ear during games. I swear sometimes I can't believe the absurdity of some of this stuff.

Here's the real problem. If a great HC, former player or former NFL GM goes to work for the media, people will use the excuse he's a "media expert" to dismiss the fact they have far more NFL knowledge than they do. Like decades of experience mean nothing now that they have applied those decades of knowledge in another profession.

It's hilarious.

Cleveland Browns chief strategy officer Paul DePodesta addressed the media following the hiring of Kevin Stefanski as head coach.

peen...you talking to me? Really? [/quote



No, it just came up you. That was a comment to something KOB posted.


Sorry for the confusion.

I was very impressed by Depos interview...Like him or not.. I do

This is just my 2 cents. I’ve never played organized football but I try and absorb as much info as I can and learn as much as is possible without ever experiencing it. (Other than streetball).

I get the general fear on this board of yet another change. I also get the ineptitude if the owners to this point. What I’m having a difficult time with is how badly misconceived everyone’s idea of how they plan to use analytics in the daily grind. Of course first and foremost every single applicant was made aware of how the Browns planned on approaching the head coaching position and I have yet to hear one of them come back and state how ridiculous the demands were. Including McDaniels.

That being said, I’m assuming everyone heard both Stefanski and DePodesta and how they are approaching the analytical side of the game yes?

My understanding is that analytics are being used to set a framework to lessen the uncertainty of random choice. Simplified how many times have you been watching a game and screamed at the TV that running up the middle for two yards on first down never works? I know I do it all the time. The idea of analytics is to put a number on that rather than plucking a figure out of thin air. On first and ten from your own 30 is only successful 18% of the time. I know I’m simplifying it but I’m trying to say that maybe just maybe everyone is jumping to the extreme when they hear analytics guy on a headset. I doubt highly that an analytics guy calls one play or tells the coach I told you so. They are there to help clarify the unknowns.

As far as DePodesta running the team, once again paranoia complex from a ton of people. Haslam looked back at the two previous choices by the analytics team and the success of him going against that and decided to go whole hog. Can you really blame him with the pressure he put on himself with all this?

I genuinely believe he is trying to bring the fans a good product no matter how badly it has worked to this point.

Here's a link to Jimmys interview.. I like him too.


link

U like the thief? ....

yes I do...and I like you... you and the thief must have something in common... Hmmmmm ?

No doubt he is the smartest guy in the room 90% of the time. Maybe 97% of the time..



I do know some don't like that.

The thief and I have sumptin in common ... not sure i like u anymore ... *L* ...

Yes you do have sumptin in common.. you both love the Browns and act like you know how to fix it ...lmbo.. I'm sorry bro.. but dang lol...

He might be a smart man, but he’s a terrible NFL owner and worse, can’t see that he is.

He can’t identify a good football coach. If he could, we wouldn’t be on... how many coaches and GMs has he hired and fired?

“Mediocrity know nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius”

- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

I believe Peen was referring to DePodesta, not Haslam.

It's a new day for the Cleveland Browns as they introduced Kevin Stefanski as their next head coach after reportedly inking him to a five-year deal. During his introductory press conference, one of the more noteworthy nuggets that came from the new leading man in Northeast Ohio was him disputing a report that he'll have to meet with the Browns analytics team for game-plan approval every Friday.

"It's not true," said Stefanski. "I liked that report. That was a good one."

Oh, if true, sorry about the mistake, I had a seniors moment.

at least I got my thoughts on Haslam on record again.

I

Hue might have been a good coach, if not for the tear down... Pettine might have been a good coach, if not for Farmer. Contrary to popular belief, not everything is the coaches fault, the GM comes into play as well...

When someone ties your arms, it's hard to swing the football helmet...

[quote=SaintDawg]It's a new day for the Cleveland Browns as they introduced Kevin Stefanski as their next head coach after reportedly inking him to a five-year deal. During his introductory press conference, one of the more noteworthy nuggets that came from the new leading man in Northeast Ohio was him disputing a report that he'll have to meet with the Browns analytics team for game-plan approval every Friday.

"It's not true," said Stefanski. "I liked that report. That was a good one." [/quote


Indeed. Glad we can put that to bed.

Cleveland Browns have to stop this cycle of embarrassing coaching changes
https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/01...ng-changes.html

By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer
CLEVELAND, Ohio — For the fifth time in eight years, Browns owner Jimmy Haslam had a press conference to introduce a new coach.

That’s why I probably wasn’t alone in feeling a little numb listening to Kevin Stefanski outline his ideas for reviving the Browns.

It’s not the fault of Stefanski, who came across as a sincere guy who doesn’t have all the answers to what haunts this franchise. But what could he say that Browns fans haven’t heard before from a new coach?

He’s different from Freddie Kitchens, the one-and-done coach of 2019. Kitchens tried to come across as a man of the people, wearing Dawg Pound Sweatshirts during games.

Kitchens’ big line was, “If you don’t wear Brown and Orange, then you don’t matter.” It made some fans smile until they saw him in action on game days.

There were strange decisions combined with a lack of discipline that led to the Browns correctly waving the white flag on Kitchens.

Of all the first-time Browns head coaches I’ve covered as a columnist (Stefanski makes No. 9 since 1999), Kitchens was the most overwhelmed and disorganized. He was the anti-analytic coach because there seemed to be no system or grand plan behind some of his decisions.

The hiring of Stefanski is a clear reaction to that.

NEW DIRECTION

Chief Strategy Officer Paul DePodesta mentioned the need for a coach to be a “CEO” for the team.

A year ago, Stefanski was DePodesta’s choice, but the football operation and Haslam went with Kitchens.

This time, DePodesta led the coaching search and it ended for him in the same place it did a year ago, with the 37-year-old Minnesota Vikings offensive coordinator.

DePodesta talked about the need for a “shared vision.”

He talked about the coach “helping collaboration...sharing information.”

It almost sounds like an elementary school teacher telling the kids to “play nice and help each other.”

But the Browns do need that. For years, they have been a simmering bubbling bowl of discontent.

Analytics vs. old-fashioned football.

GM vs. coach.

Clashing egos, insecure personalities and a frustrated beaten-down fan base.

That has been Browns football.

It’s what Haslam and DePodesta hope will end with the hiring of Stefanski followed by a GM who will buy into the Browns analytic-based approach to team building.

They also like Stefanski’s demeanor, calling him “natural...authentic...collaborative.”

Haslam said the new coach is “humble.”

That is how Stefanski came across.

If nothing else, the building (for now) seemed unified on the hiring of Stefanski.

WHICH WAY WORKS?

Part of DePodesta’s job is to help create the “shared vision” and make sure people “stick to it.”

After he said that, I asked about the impact of the only constant with the Browns being change from coaches to general managers. He admitted there is “a real cost to change...We have to get it right.”

DePodesta and I chatted casually for a few moments after the press conference. He mentioned how the Browns have to “develop an identity...a way” of doing business and “stick to it.”

I mentioned how his old team – the Indians – do exactly that. DePodesta began his career in pro sports as an intern with the Tribe in 1996.

And the Indians are a successful, stable team with a clear “way” of doing business in a sport stacked against them because of the lack of a salary cap.

“There is no one way (to win)," said DePodesta. “We have to create our own way and own it."

Agreed.

Sticking with the new coach and the new front office for more than a wink of an eye is the only “way” that things will change in the right direction for the Browns.

I haven't checked in on this thread all that much, but has anyone told mac that the Browns haven't been in tear down mode for at least 2 seasons now?

ssssshh! Don't spoil it for mac...

Dang, sorry! I'm such a clumsy oaf

the point of my reply was that you are basing the premise of your post on a strawman position. You're asserting that tearing down what so far has been built is the intention of the "numbers guys" or at the very least likely. And if you claim neither of those is the case, than your whole point is completely irrelevant.

If you are interested in truth in advertising, the title of this thread should be "It's finally time to let the numbers boys finish what they started".

Yes. Love it!

Analytics isn't always in tear down mode.


We went back because our "football guy" screwed the pooch with his hand picked head coach.



It is all a matter of choice....I prefer a smart guy like Depo over a Doofus like Dorsey.


But, that is just my opinion.

Well, anyone who has been paying attention the last few years DOES know that for a fact.

You mean aside from the fact that analytical and data driven processes are constantly under refinement and there for by their very nature are subject to changes?

Or do you mean aside from the fact that organizational changes are often done in "phases"? And while phases build off of the one before it and carry similarities, they are still different enough to allow them to be designated their own "phase".

Or do you mean, and please someone correct me if I'm wrong... We took Baker #1 right? It was a guy Dorsey was looking at even before being hired by the Browns. IIRC Baker also appeared to be a good analytical pick? It's probably best I'm wrong on this one though... we wouldn't want a bunch of guys known for having the sole goal of trading away picks for other Drafts actually using the #1 pick.

Or may be it's because I happened to notice there was also a 2018 and 2019 season where players were acquired. We know Dorsey was the football guy making picks and trades. We, I think, can all agree that Dorsey didn't value the nerds as much as maybe he could have. What we don't know however, is to what extent the nerds may have been ignored and irrelevant during those 2 years. Did Dorsey go all Maverick, to hell with everyone else? Or was he happy to let the nerds do the grunt work while he positioned himself to make sure everyone saw he was the one making decisions?

I fully expect the nerds to keep assessing the value of future picks. Even the football guys do.

I assume you're talking about Phil Simms' opinion, or was it Chris Simms' opinion, that's alredy been posted in this thread.
IN that case, I like it.

Mac, it's foolish to think analytics is always in a state of tearing down the team. LOL Wow.

There will certainly be changes in the roster. How much or how little is anyone's guess at this time.

Agreed. My guess is that the amount will be less than what the doomsayers are saying, but honestly probably a little more than who are encouraged about numbers guys having more influence might think. Its really going come down to how much the players Dorsey acquired fit in with where the nerds were heading anyway.

For example I'd find it hard to believe that the numbers would suggest OBJ would NOT be a smart addition. Even if the numbers disagreed with what we spent for him, it wasn't a move that amounted to a disastrous mistake where they should feel like they need to recoup as much of their 'losses' by unloading him.

My hope is that Stefanski will tell the numbers guys the "type of player" he needs in terms of skill set and they go into the process with that in the forefront of their decision making. ie..... If you plan to change the OL to the zone blocking scheme, you need more agile, athletic type players along the OL.

At that juncture it would be my hope that the first factor in the equation of acquiring players for the OL would be that style of player. We've seen too often the disconnect and how round pegs have tried to be forced into square holes.

I think that's the entire goal in this entire process and as Browns fans I'm sure we all hope it turns out that way.

Yes.

And here is an area of concern for me at this juncture: does Stefanski have a clear idea what he wants to implement? I think scheme is probably an area that the analytics are the least influential because there are so many different ways to play and win. But the guy driving that vision has to be able to give the numbers guys a good description of that.

In terms of the offensive line, I'd think that is a position that numbers would place a high value on (and I think someone has posted an organizational chart to suggest that) because that investment is what is going to protect and solidify everything else.